I figure I would start a new topic on this issue as I have way more information. This is a continuation of the MKZ saga with my engine going into LIMP mode. In the first part we had an issue where I was leaving my condo with a cold engine, and the car cutout in an intersection -- almost getting myself rear ended.
Issue 1: 6032 Miles
Dealership Fix: They replaced the battery in the car.
Thread 1: https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7644.0. (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7644.0.)
Part 2 - 14,685.52 miles
I was leaving this morning (cold start) -- 74 degrees. I made it to one stop sign, no problems. Second stop sign, accelerate and my car slams into a low 3rd or 4th, and starts freaking out on the dash. I'd say my acceleration was slow as I was one block away from another stop sign. I got a message of "hill start assistance not available", the airbag light went on, and the service vehicle light came on. (Window washer fluid was actually low)
(http://www.masteringposh.com/blog/LincolnMKZIssue_min.png)
I also received "See Manual". I shut off the car, restart the car -- its like nothing happened.
(http://www.masteringposh.com/blog/LincolnMKZIssue2_min.png)
So I took the car to the dealership and they actually could grab two codes today --
Powertrain Control Module (P061C) - Internal Control Module Engine RPM Performance
Antilock braking system - (U0401) - Invalid Data Received From ECP/PCM
They are going to take the car next Thursday to take a look at it. Since the car is driving fine, I'm not to worried. I tried full acceleration, partial acceleration, multiple different things to try to emulate the same issue, nothing.
P061C -- These look fun....
Possible causes
•Faulty Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP)
•CKP harness is open or shorted
•CKP circuit poor electrical connection
•Faulty Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP)
•CMP harness is open or shorted
•CMP circuit poor electrical connection
•Faulty Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
Not so sure about the U0401
I believe your dash said see Manuel.... he's the mechanic at the local Lincoln dealer....
All joking aside it sucks your having issues with such a new vehicle.
Any critters that can sneak up into the engine bay in your area? They can wreak havoc on the electrical system sometimes.
Do you have any devices plugged into the OBD port? Known to sometimes cause funky things to happen (at least on 2010+ MY SHOs).
There probably going to say it's a Glitch of some sort. Z :nonono:
Quote from: SHOdded on September 12, 2017, 10:09:25 PM
Do you have any devices plugged into the OBD port? Known to sometimes cause funky things to happen (at least on 2010+ MY SHOs).
The port is empty. And from what I can tell, no critters. I have indoor parking...
Apparently Ford platinum support wants to take a closer look...
10/3/2017 Update - There is NO UPDATE. > : (
I called the dealership given they've had my vehicle since September 21st. Speaking with the service advisor, he said they were not able to reproduce the issue on the vehicle. They also stated that the vehicle had not DTCs to view. I flipped my lid a bit and said "you've had the car for 13 days. The issue originally happened on the 12th. You got the DTCs, printed them off for me, and sent me away. You could have fixed my vehicle right then and there and done more diagnostics! Not doing anything is not a resolution to this issue. You got the codes. Replace the ECU, PCM, something...."
The dealership is going to have the service manager call me back. To see what they can do with the vehicle.
I'm looking back at the total number of days they've had my vehicle and I'm coming up on 30 soon. In Wisconsin 30 is the magic number for the lemon law, or 4 attempts to fix an issue.
SMH this is such a waste of my time and takes away from the whole experience of this MKZ.
i hope you get the lemon law and can get a 3.0 continental instead.
Never thought to hear such bad things about a Lincoln dealership. Ford, all the time ...
Lol Shodded -- isn't it the same thing though?
No, not really. Lincoln really does generally hold its' customer service to higher standards than Ford.
Wife has worked at both a Ford and Lincoln dealer. Same family, but two different locations.
Even one bad customer review raises eyebrows at corporate Lincoln. They truly do care about customers. Wife was in charge of yelp, facebook, google, etc reviews and they made sure to address every customer.
Ford dealers basically get a free pass until their percentages of customer satisfaction get too low. Ford corporate still cares, but it's not as tightly monitored.
Quote from: sholxgt on October 04, 2017, 01:58:33 PM
Wife has worked at both a Ford and Lincoln dealer. Same family, but two different locations.
Even one bad customer review raises eyebrows at corporate Lincoln. They truly do care about customers. Wife was in charge of yelp, facebook, google, etc reviews and they made sure to address every customer.
Ford dealers basically get a free pass until their percentages of customer satisfaction get too low. Ford corporate still cares, but it's not as tightly monitored.
I would love to complain to the Lincoln Concierge service, but on most days I cannot get through to an agent. The call gets routed then dropped before I get to someone.
The other problem is the State Mandated Warranty section (lemon law) of the Lincoln warranty manual has an contact of:
Ford Motor Company
Lincoln Concierge
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48121
This to me means that I'll be dealing with the parent company. I may stop at another Lincoln dealer to discuss my issue and see if I can get a district manager contact for my car. The longer this goes on, the more frustrated I get with the dealer + Lincoln.
Sorry for the caps but I want to make my point: THIS ISSUE HAS REALLY GIVEN ME A DISTAIN TOWARDS THE LINCOLN BRAND AND TOOK ALWAY ALL EXCITEMENT FOR THE 2017 MKZ 3.0T.
#SteppingDownFromSoapBox
Update 10/11/2017 - Still NO update.
Really sorry for this trouble you're going through.
If it were me, I would probably just quietly fill out the lemon law paperwork and submit.
You'll either get your car back quickly or it will be gone from your life and you can move on.
X2
Quote from: sholxgt on October 11, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
Really sorry for this trouble you're going through.
If it were me, I would probably just quietly fill out the lemon law paperwork and submit.
You'll either get your car back quickly or it will be gone from your life and you can move on.
I'm there too. I'm just being reasonable and providing the dealership enough opportunities to resolve the issue. Honestly, Lemon law is between me and the Lincoln Automotive -- the dealership doesn't have to help. I'm hoping they will.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
Sometimes the dealer is in agreement. I had a buddy lemon law a 3500 Chevy Dually. The dealership helped him fill out the paperwork. They were done trying to figure out why the 454 was rod knocking after the second short block replacement.
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on October 11, 2017, 08:38:45 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on October 11, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
Really sorry for this trouble you're going through.
If it were me, I would probably just quietly fill out the lemon law paperwork and submit.
You'll either get your car back quickly or it will be gone from your life and you can move on.
I'm there too. I'm just being reasonable and providing the dealership enough opportunities to resolve the issue. Honestly, Lemon law is between me and the Lincoln Automotive -- the dealership doesn't have to help. I'm hoping they will.
Every car brand has a "Monday built" car sooner or later. Makes it difficult not to hold a grudge against the brand itself. On the other end of the scale, mine has been the most perfect car I have ever owned. Since showroom delivery 3 years ago it hasn't been back to the dealer even for the slightest issue. From what I've seen, most people have had minimal issues with this car line. Kind of luck of the draw. Hope everything works your way.
I would stop making the monthly payments,given the Fact your vehicle has spent more time in the service dept than your very own home.
I would try speaking with leasing Co so maybe they can get you into something else.
Best of luck and keep us updated. Z
Hey All -- I FINALLY got my car back yesterday October 18th, 2017. The car was in the dealership for a total of 28 consecutive days this time. This means my car has been out of service for repairs a total of 45 days.
The dealership ended up having a Lincoln engineer come out to inspect the vehicle. They literally checked every pin on the ECU and PCM to make sure it was within spec and it was making a good connection to male connector on the ECU/PCM. Every connector checked out as OK.
The only last thing they tried was to replace the Crankshaft position sensor. This required them to take off the Oil cooler to access the CKP Sensor. While I don't believe they were putting their best foot forward in the beginning, I actually appreciate the last two weeks where they thoroughly inspected the PCM/ECU.
After a conversation with the dealership, they are agreeing I should reach out to Lincoln Customer Relations to address the safety issue with the vehicle. I spoke with them today and I explained what was going on with the vehicle. I stated that I would like to do something with the car and I don't feel safe driving it. I also mentioned that I wouldn't put my wife in the car because she would have no clue what to do if the car died in an intersection. (I'm not even sure she knows where the hazards are lol).
They are going to call the dealership, the Lincoln engineer, and get back to me with an offer by October 30th for a vehicle buy back. They said they have to send it off to a special team if they do see it meets the requirements of the "lemon law" (which after 45 days of repairs, I'm pretty sure I've met that requirement lol).
Last there are two VERY IMPORTANT things I want to point out here:
1. Being calm and kind to the dealership & Lincoln is definitely helping.
2. If you have a DTC pop up on the vehicle -- the 2017 MKZ will COMPLETELY CLEAR THE CODES if you have two successful starts without the code. If you have an issue, Have them tow it right away. Don't drive it to the dealership.
The loaner I've had for the last 28 days was a Lincoln MKX. I actually caught a video of the HVAC freaking out. Like possessed. I'll start a new thread for it. I'm beginning to think its me. LOL
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on October 19, 2017, 04:24:01 PM
Hey All -- I FINALLY got my car back yesterday October 18th, 2017. The car was in the dealership for a total of 28 consecutive days this time. This means my car has been out of service for repairs a total of 45 days.
The dealership ended up having a Lincoln engineer come out to inspect the vehicle. They literally checked every pin on the ECU and PCM to make sure it was within spec and it was making a good connection to male connector on the ECU/PCM. Every connector checked out as OK.
The only last thing they tried was to replace the Crankshaft position sensor. This required them to take off the Oil cooler to access the CKP Sensor. While I don't believe they were putting their best foot forward in the beginning, I actually appreciate the last two weeks where they thoroughly inspected the PCM/ECU.
After a conversation with the dealership, they are agreeing I should reach out to Lincoln Customer Relations to address the safety issue with the vehicle. I spoke with them today and I explained what was going on with the vehicle. I stated that I would like to do something with the car and I don't feel safe driving it. I also mentioned that I wouldn't put my wife in the car because she would have no clue what to do if the car died in an intersection. (I'm not even sure she knows where the hazards are lol).
They are going to call the dealership, the Lincoln engineer, and get back to me with an offer by October 30th for a vehicle buy back. They said they have to send it off to a special team if they do see it meets the requirements of the "lemon law" (which after 45 days of repairs, I'm pretty sure I've met that requirement lol).
Last there are two VERY IMPORTANT things I want to point out here:
1. Being calm and kind to the dealership & Lincoln is definitely helping.
2. If you have a DTC pop up on the vehicle -- the 2017 MKZ will COMPLETELY CLEAR THE CODES if you have two successful starts without the code. If you have an issue, Have them tow it right away. Don't drive it to the dealership.
The loaner I've had for the last 28 days was a Lincoln MKX. I actually caught a video of the HVAC freaking out. Like possessed. I'll start a new thread for it. I'm beginning to think its me. LOL
Get back in a SHO or PI, I think you're allergic to the Lincoln extras ;P
LOL @ derf ... There are temporary codes, and there are permanent codes. The temporary code is very similar to the throttle body situation in the Edge. Except it would reset on the restart following the incident :o
Good luck, great this thing is finally coming to a resolution!
Update 10/25/2017 - Lincoln Denied My Claim - They do not feel it meets the criteria for Wisconsin Lemon Law.
I also informed the customer satisfaction person about my headlight having a bad seal. I called the service manager and said I would like to have my car back in for repairs -- he was out by the time I called.
I asked to speak to a the next level up for the customer satisfaction (supervisor) who will be getting back to me tomorrow.
...more to come. I'm actually kind of shocked.
Wisconsin Lemon Law
PDF: http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/dmv/shared/lemonlawafter.pdf (http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/dmv/shared/lemonlawafter.pdf)
X "A new vehicle that is no more than a year old and still under warranty is classified as a "lemon""
It has a serious defect the manufacturer or dealer(s) didn't fix in four tries, or
X It has one or more defects that prevent you from using it for 30 days or more (the 30 days need not be consecutive).
The car is a lemon if all of the below are true:
X You bought or leased a new vehicle.
X The vehicle is a car, truck, motorcycle or motor home or other qualifying vehicle described below.
X The vehicle developed a defect or defects during its first year and before the warranty expired.
X The defect seriously harms the vehicle's use, value, or safety.
One of the following happened during the vehicle's first year and before the warranty expired:
The dealer failed four times to fix the same system defect; OR
X The vehicle was "out of service" for 30 days or more due to defects
The law provides that a vehicle is considered "out of service," if a consumer is unable to use the vehicle for its intended purpose because of either of the following:
X 1. The vehicle is in the possession of the manufacturer, motor vehicle lessor, or an authorized dealer for repair of a defect.
X 2. The vehicle is in the possession of the consumer and the vehicle has a nonconformity that:
X A) substantially affects the use or safety of the vehicle and
X B) the manufacturer or dealer has attempted to repair on at least two occasions.
What is a defect?
An irritating rattle may not be "serious" enough to make your car eligible for a Lemon Law claim. Your vehicle stalling or not running might be.
Am I missing something here?
Here is a member (Mystery101) who was issued a new vehicle as per Lemon-law. Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4775.30.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4775.30.html)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6190.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6190.0.html)
Quote from: ZSHO on October 26, 2017, 09:23:05 AM
Here is a member (Mystery101) who was issued a new vehicle as per Lemon-law. Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4775.30.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4775.30.html)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6190.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6190.0.html)
Thanks Z. I'll see if that member is still active... What a great memory you have lol
Update 10/26/2017 - The supervisor called. He is confident that Lincoln's stance is that it does not meet the lemon law requirements. I asked to escalate it again.
Seriously -- W.T.F.
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on October 26, 2017, 06:16:50 PM
Update 10/26/2017 - The supervisor called. He is confident that Lincoln's stance is that it does not meet the lemon law requirements. I asked to escalate it again.
Seriously -- W.T.F.
Boy.......
They sure seem to be fighting awfully hard to NOT relieve you of that headache. I wonder why?
Clearly it would seem to the average Joe that you've BOTH met AND surpassed the criteria laid forth.
Perseverance will hopefully pay off for you in the long run. Sucks to see the struggles in the mean time. Goodness.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Quote from: bpd1151 on October 26, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
Perseverance will hopefully pay off for you in the long run. Sucks to see the struggles in the mean time. Goodness.
I started the process for pursuing action through the BBB. I also have an attorney on deck for this as well. The attorney is doing a free review of the case and all my details to determine how strong of a case I have against Lincoln. Ultimately, the Lincoln Limited Warranty expresses that I have to go through mediation PRIOR to them paying any of the legal fees. So we will have to see how the BBB views this issue, and if Lincoln is willing to do anything. If we cannot come to terms for a "reasonable" outcome, then I'll work with an attorney to pursue this further.
The key here is BBB before hiring an attorney. They can argue that I didn't follow the terms set forth in the warranty, and not pay the legal fees portion of the lemon law claim.
Does anyone else question my sanity for reading the Lincoln warranty? LOL
I started writing a letter to Ford Motor Company last night. I just wanted to share a few lines with everyone here. Who knows if I'll end up sending it -- but it felt good to write.
Ford Motor Company promotes its quality to its investors with "Improving quality is a daily priority at Ford. From Design and Manufacture to sales and service, Ford always aims to increase customer satisfaction.". Ford Motor Company promotes safety to its investors with "We have a longstanding commitment to developing and implementing innovations that make our vehicles safer to our customers and their families.".
My wife and I feel Ford's commitments to the safety and quality priorities are not being followed through in our situation. As we start building a family, we want to make sure that we can be confident in the integrity of the 2017 MKZ's safety systems. This should be unquestionable.
To this point, I have a genuine concern with the safety of my vehicle. You can ask anyone who is involved in my case that I've been respectful, calm, and wanting to work with Lincoln for a resolution. I feel that the determination of whether a vehicle meets some specific criteria for replacement is rather rigid, and that my situation has not been properly represented within Lincoln. In fact, I've never gotten an explanation on "why they determined what they did" other than "it doesn't meet the criteria".
I can understand why you are disgusted with this situation. I hope Ford does the right thing for you.
Quote from: Brucelinc on October 30, 2017, 01:05:14 PM
I can understand why you are disgusted with this situation. I hope Ford does the right thing for you.
Update 11/9/2017 -
Ford finally received both my letters. They went to the same person. One letter was explaining how unsatisifed I was with the Lincoln service and the other was the formal Lemon Law paperwork. They called me immediately and they said they would give me an answer in 30 days after they do an internal investigation. Not holding my breath at this point because the next step is arbitration with the BBB. My gut is telling me that I am going to get a "substitution of collateral" offer that will put me into a different Lincoln. At this point, I'm done with Lincoln and just want a refund.
So we will have to see what they come back with. Fingers crossed.
To quote my letter "My pride and happiness has turned to fear and frustration"
Well, def got my fingers crossed for you too!!!
Update 11/16/2017 - After giving Ford / Lincoln 13 days to respond I opened a case and submitted the paperwork with the BBB Auto line. I received a call from the BBB and they stated that they do not do any arbitration with "airbag issues". I stated that the issue wasn't an airbag, rather the car goes into limp mode while moving. I explained I almost got rear ended when the car did this -- I feel like its an old story as I've written it 5 times in different letters and correspondences with Lincoln and the BBB.
Anyway -- I'm feeling super discouraged and just doubtful that there will be any quick resolution to this issue. I spoke with an attorney and it will cost me about $750 out of pocket to go through arbitration and I will have to give 10% of whats reclaimed if we end up suing Ford Lincoln. I can afford it without an issue, I just feel like I can never do a Ford / Lincoln again. We will see if they surprise me before the 30 days is up. 30 days put me exactly one day prior to the purchase date of my car. #EndRant
It is fugly out there :( Wonder what they are thinking!
I would say a one time @ttorney Fee of $750.00 is not to bad and consider it a car payment.
It unfortunately can take months before any kind of decision can be warranted.
Best of luck. Z
What a nauseating story to start off my Friday... I read from the beginning and I am hoping for the best possible result for you man. What a shame to read such a discouraging story related to a company who is struggling to pull in "younger customers". You'd think they would offer better service to someone who could potentially lease/purchase a dozen or more Lincoln Motor Vehicles in the future...
Quote from: EcoAbe on November 17, 2017, 08:59:58 AM
What a nauseating story to start off my Friday... I read from the beginning and I am hoping for the best possible result for you man.
Thanks man -- I'm hoping this thread wasn't too much of a downer lol.
-------
Update: 11/27/2017
Well I heard from Lincoln, and they requested a bit more time as it was a holiday week this last week. I can say that based on my conversation, I'm 90% hopeful of a resolution without the BBB Auto Line or any further back and forth with Lincoln. I don't want to curse myself quiet yet.
I can say, the representatives I've been working with are all very respectful and seem to want to do the best thing for me.
More to come....
Update -- 12/13/2017 -- LOL
Well things are progressing with Lincoln. They agreed to buy my car back after all of the problems I've had with it.
Their math calculations were VERY off, and they were trying to calculate the "reasonable usage" based on the purchase price, versus the "amount I am obligated to pay in the lease". It comes out to about $1000.00 they are not budging on. I could continue to deal with this hassle, or move on with my life.
I decided to move on with my life and accept the buyback + refund. It's just absolutely ridiculous of the hoops and BS they put you through, even to the end. Their site for buybacks says "lets make this right" lol -- what a joke.
A somewhat happy conclusion. Time to move on, indeed! You did not give up, and the result was in your favor.
Progress of any kind is always welcomed! especially around the Holidays. Z :xmas:
Update 12/22/2017
HELLLLLLLO ALL! Well tiz the season to provide an update.
After a bunch of back and forth with Lincoln / Ford Corporation, I was able to get a buyback of the vehicle. In the state of Wisconsin, they also must agree to pay back all of the lease payments that were made up to this point.
It is with GREAT pleasure I present to you my rebate check:
(http://www.brentblawat.com/blog/IMG_4141_blank.jpg)
I ended up turning in the car yesterday; and with great relief, I am done with Lincoln and this hassle. It also means, however, I get to now show my video to everyone that displays all of the problems I had with my Lincoln MKZ. While I wish I could say I'm "super happy" about this money -- dont get me wrong, this will go to good use, I'm very disappointed in that i even had to go this route.
More to come plus photos of my new ride :)
An end is also a beginning. Time to think now about yuletide logs and eggnogg. BTW, you left your checking account number off the check. Be sure to post to officially close out this saga.
Quote from: SHOdded on December 22, 2017, 06:18:08 PM
An end is also a beginning. Time to think now about yuletide logs and eggnogg. BTW, you left your checking account number off the check. Be sure to post to officially close out this saga.
LOL -- I'll get right on that.
New ride? What is it?
Here's the thread on the new car :)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8703.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8703.0.html)