I removed my snorkel from the front of the box. I had GTP prior to this car and I modded that box with excellent results. I would like to create another opening in the box and run a tube/ piping down underneath to the front, or into the fender well.
Who has done this?
What did you do?
What were the results?
Would you do it again?
Thanks.
I thought the stock opening went straight to the grill, grabbing ambient temp air and even forcing it in a bit at speed?...can that be improved on?..just asking...is wheel well or fender air better than the air in front of the car?
How did you measure the "excellent" results of the mod to the gtp...
Want more power for the sho?...grab a tune
I've done it with a 3" hose/tube. Went down to the lower front grille.
I don't have pics. But I'll take some tomorrow.
I did not remove the factory snorkel.
IAT go to atmospheric temps faster and it recovers from heat soak quickly.
The hole in the SHO box is considerably larger than that of the inlet on the snorkel. As for the G T P, I swapped between a modded stock airbox and a fender well intake. My IAT dropped when I installed the port on the side of the airbox and ran it into the fender.
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I added another intake to the stock airbox on my MKS and also left the original. Due to the adaptive headlights, I think there is a little less room on the MKS than on a SHO. I ran the tubing through a tight opening in the inner fender and down to the area beside the lower grill. I cut an oval hole in the plastic insert as can be seen in the photo.
(//URL=http://s1330.photobucket.com/user/brucelinc/media/d9af384e-74f8-4ec4-9385-865b8e233e1e_zps6yp1vzmz.jpg.html%5Dhttp://%5Bimg%20width=363%20height=300%5Dhttp://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w562/brucelinc/d9af384e-74f8-4ec4-9385-865b8e233e1e_zps6yp1vzmz.jpg)[/URL]][/img]
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Thanks for the pics. What did you use for tubing?
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I first attempted to use 3 inch tubing that I got from Autozone. However, due to the contortions of getting it through the fender well, it basically crushed down to a little over 2 inches. Rather than that, I settled on some 2.5 inch vaccuum cleaner hose. It is very tough and flexible. The inlet into the airbox is 3 inch PVC drain pipe that is glued into the airbox. You can see the rubber reducer that I used to attach the vac hose to the PVC. Again, I think the MKS is a bit tighter in this area due to the headlights that swivel when turning. With the SHO, you might be able to use 3" all the way.
I tested this with a house fan positioned in front of the car and can definitely feel air flowing into the airbox. Also, I am getting a lot more bugs into the filter than before. Having said that, I cannot claim that it helps performance at all.
(http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w562/brucelinc/P7230018_zpsrxbo899y.jpg) (http://s1330.photobucket.com/user/brucelinc/media/P7230018_zpsrxbo899y.jpg.html)
^ But its cool and thats all that matters
I did something similar on my Flex.
Better sound and keeps the IAT down closer to ambient.
I took off the snorkel last night and it definitely sounds healthier. With the snorkel I hear a definite suction sound with LMS tine. Without the snorkel, I don't hear that anymore. At speed its probably fine, in traffic im sure its worse.
Forgive me if I missed something here. But sounds like you are sucking in un-filtered air. As I recall from stock air box, air flows from top of box , then downward to turbo inlet. So unless you are installing another filter inline I would NOT perform this mod. Again, maybe I missed something somewhere. If so, I rescind my comments. If not, well........
Ariflow is reverse, bottom up through the filter.
sent from my speak n' spell using tin cans and string
after a bunch of driving, I can't seem to tell a butt dyno difference. Charge air temp is higher so in the summer it probably won't be good. Put it back to stock.
Quote from: polskifacet on January 04, 2016, 11:04:59 AM
after a bunch of driving, I can't seem to tell a butt dyno difference.
Im not sure why yo think you would be able to feel a difference.
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 11:24:16 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on January 04, 2016, 11:04:59 AM
after a bunch of driving, I can't seem to tell a butt dyno difference.
Im not sure why yo think you would be able to feel a difference.
There is a type of Zen some of us feel with mods that maybe don't add power but add to the feeling of the car, no change in Zen with removing the snorkel (IMO).
The factory snorkle picks up cooler air from the grill area and feeds it into the airbox. Maybe I have lost my zen but I don't see how removing the snorkle could do anything beneficial. I am surprised that it even changed the sound.
For me I like the concept in an attempt to catch more air as it seems the snorkel is too small especially when compared to that of the F150.
Jason
Quote from: Justme2011 on January 04, 2016, 02:32:19 PM
For me I like the concept in an attempt to catch more air as it seems the snorkel is too small especially when compared to that of the F150.
Jason
Removing the snorkel does give you almost twice the area of the opening of what you have with the snorkel installed. Unfortunately seems like it gets negated since its getting a lot of its air from behind the radiator which is hot. Further modification might make it better than stock but then you have to chop up your stock air box.
Correct me if I am wrong. I don't think there has been any evidence that the stock box can't flow enough cool air to a bolted and tuned car. From what I have gathered, aftermarket intakes have not shown any significant improvement over the stock box with a K&N or a dry flow filter installed. Not saying there is not room for improvement, but if the engine in its current configuration "whatever that is with your parts" can't pull more air and that is not due to a restriction in the intake then what is the point? Cooler air is another story of course, but taking the snorkel off its not going in the right direction.
Quote from: Scott4957 on January 04, 2016, 02:55:08 PM
Correct me if I am wrong. I don't think there has been any evidence that the stock box can't flow enough cool air to a bolted and tuned car. From what I have gathered, aftermarket intakes have not shown any significant improvement over the stock box with a K&N or a dry flow filter installed. Not saying there is not room for improvement, but if the engine in its current configuration "whatever that is with your parts" can't pull more air and that is not due to a restriction in the intake then what is the point? Cooler air is another story of course, but taking the snorkel off its not going in the right direction.
Right now the snorkel opening area is actually larger than that of the 3 inch intake pipe that connects to the top of the air box so I have to agree that there isn't much point. I think I saw bpd making some type of custom piping which has individual pipes coming from the turbos vs the Y that is there now.
Have you guys ever heard of grasping at straws? Good lord
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 03:31:07 PM
Have you guys ever heard of grasping at straws? Good lord
No, i don't think a straw would work, that is smaller than the snorkel. Anyone else have any ideas?
Quote from: Scott4957 on January 04, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 03:31:07 PM
Have you guys ever heard of grasping at straws? Good lord
No, i don't think a straw would work, that is smaller than the snorkel. Anyone else have any ideas?
I have an idea....add a pound of boost and get real power....something you can feel
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: Scott4957 on January 04, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 03:31:07 PM
Have you guys ever heard of grasping at straws? Good lord
No, i don't think a straw would work, that is smaller than the snorkel. Anyone else have any ideas?
I have an idea....add a pound of boost and get real power....something you can feel
No its gotta show up on the dyno, the "feel" of the butt dyno just doesn't cut it when we are talking about 100th's of a second off the quarter mile.
The agree with Polskifacet because the real restriction lies by the saxophone plumbing limiting the potential amount of air flow that can be had because of the smaller tubing,there is nothing wrong with the oem intake,its one of the best design's in its class. Z
Quote from: polskifacet on January 04, 2016, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Scott4957 on January 04, 2016, 02:55:08 PM
Correct me if I am wrong. I don't think there has been any evidence that the stock box can't flow enough cool air to a bolted and tuned car. From what I have gathered, aftermarket intakes have not shown any significant improvement over the stock box with a K&N or a dry flow filter installed. Not saying there is not room for improvement, but if the engine in its current configuration "whatever that is with your parts" can't pull more air and that is not due to a restriction in the intake then what is the point? Cooler air is another story of course, but taking the snorkel off its not going in the right direction.
Right now the snorkel opening area is actually larger than that of the 3 inch intake pipe that connects to the top of the air box so I have to agree that there isn't much point. I think I saw bpd making some type of custom piping which has individual pipes coming from the turbos vs the Y that is there now.
That I would like to see. On the Mazda DISI there was much gain to be had with the intake system even on the stock turbo. They were even making more power with a 3 inch intake when the TIP was only 2.5ish. There was plenty of data to back this up but I haven't seen that for our cars. To be honest I like to see...nothing. It just means the intake system was properly built and we can spend our hard earned cash on something that will develop power. I think an easy way to test this would be to run pipes from the turbos with as few bends as possible out to cone style filters and put it on a dyno. No sense in sciencing out a new intake design if you can't make more power that way. Have any of the tuners weighed in on this in the past? I know many have taken the box off and not flowed more air, how about the saxophone tube?
Wrong wrong wrong...
The restriction lies in both turbo wheels...doesnt matter if you have a 10" intake tube....not going to move anymore air with those little wheels period...you guys want more power...get some real turbos
You guys that have changed down pipes have seen the turbine wheel...its barely over 1.5"....that is the restriction...believe it or dont
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 05:38:29 PM
The restriction lies in both turbo wheels...doesnt matter if you have a 10" intake tube....not going to move anymore air with those little wheels period...you guys want more power...get some real turbos
You guys that have changed down pipes have seen the turbine wheel...its barely over 1.5"....that is the restriction...believe it or dont
Agreed, and that's why the turbine upgrade and turbo upgrade products exist. They do make for a major upgrade to the stock system compared to a CAI. It's just that CAI is sooooo much more DIY-able for everyone!
Quote from: ajpturbo on January 04, 2016, 05:38:29 PM
Wrong wrong wrong...
The restriction lies in both turbo wheels...doesnt matter if you have a 10" intake tube....not going to move anymore air with those little wheels period...you guys want more power...get some real turbos
You guys that have changed down pipes have seen the turbine wheel...its barely over 1.5"....that is the restriction...believe it or dont
Everyone is aware larger turbos or upgraded turbine wheels make more power, no one in this thread is talking about anything but stock turbos and if the air box or an intake can flow more air modified or otherwise. I'm not saying your wrong, in fact I am inclined to agree which is why I have not spent any money on an intake. But no one has come with a definitive answer because none of the intakes that I have found are from the TIP forward on both turbos. On a side note what does it take to have the upgraded turbine wheels installed?
If a way is found for the intake to take in more air aren't we really talking about faster spool up times? That's not really more power just better throttle response which helps the ol' arse dyno.
On the question on upgraded wheels, I didn't have a good experience doing this in a different car but that was a different car and different tuner I'm sure.
Jason
http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20 (http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20) Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 04, 2016, 09:58:20 PM
http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20 (http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20) Z
I know this is somewhat hijacking this thread. BUT.... what kinda gains can be had from a turbo upgrade? Without meth?
$2500 turbo upgrades are a different world when talking about pulling the snorkel off the stock air box. The only thing pulling of the snorkel could do, if you can feed it cold air, is keep the power curve higher for a 100 rpm at the top of the rev range. This is on a stock tune with a K&N intake. Results are negligible IMO.
(http://gompka.selfip.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/k&n.jpg)
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on January 04, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 04, 2016, 09:58:20 PM
http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20 (http://ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20) Z
I know this is somewhat hijacking this thread. BUT.... what kinda gains can be had from a turbo upgrade? Without meth?
Probably 30-50 HP range depending what octane is avaiiable. Z
I think the stock cai works well and any mods trying to get more sir that the engine dont need is a waste of time. And has been proven over n over on our cars. If we can add cooler air that would of course be good, however that vs cost has not made that a cheap alternative. In my experience and informal testing a aftermarket cai loses some on the low end from sucking in hot air gains an insignificant bit right before the shift, however the cone set up does sound good and may be worth the price of admission just for that! Your milage may vary....