Ok here attached is a short log. It is of 3rd gear where in my car does its super bad stuttering, stalling. I USED to think the issue was the wastegates. (this thread: https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=8568.msg132442#msg132442 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=8568.msg132442#msg132442)) But now i just do not know jack s***... /omg rage!/ :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
Note the Boost spikes to 218 repeatedly, then he subsequent drops! so the wastgates //to me// appear to work. They are dropping pressure and boost goes down VERY quickly, but then it just does it again.. juts as quickly.
W
T
A
F
!
?
I am so *ucking desperate .. does ANYONE have any ideas ? I plan on pulling the PCM to look at it .. but I'm not even remotely convinced that's the issue.
I agree the data log is probably to short. I will get a new one today that is much longer. also ignore the OAR i just flashed it over 40 minutes before the log.
I don't see anything in the log that would make the car fall flat on its face and stutter...although your load drop from 450 to 399 relatively quickly but your boost doesnt follow that... not sure what is going on there...
Your throttle is closing up twice in the third gear pull.. but I am not sure if your tuner is using throttle to control the load? If they are it could be that... but your LTFT and STFT are within reason... and you ARE holding boost a bit above desired... but not much.. a couple kpa...
Your RPMs are not smooth however.. not sure what is going on there? Could just be how the data is being recorded but its not a smooth acceleration..
Small amount KR but not much... I am surprised you are getting any KR with OAR sitting at -.30...
Are you recording to a laptop? or through the SCT device?
Why don't you email Brad? You sig says you are tuned by him.. not sure why you don't speak to him directly...
Additionally... your sig also says you are spraying meth... your logs suggests otherwise.. no reduction in IAT's, the STFT+LTFT don't show the added fuel, and you shouldn't be seeing ANY KR at that spark and boost if you are spraying... IMHO..
Well This was in front of my face and i did not see it. it is a symptom .. but I have no idea what it means..
look at the short log from last night.
now look at the look i just attached here from my meth tune test.
see how smooth the boost is and how smooth the wastegate levels are?
Now look at last nights ...
see the spikes?.. THERE ALL THE WAY TROUGH THE LOG and appear to be regular intervals.. Not just Above the desired boost level. but at ALL levels. what crack does that means ??
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 12:28:22 PM
I don't see anything in the log that would make the car fall flat on its face and stutter...although your load drop from 450 to 399 relatively quickly but your boost doesnt follow that... not sure what is going on there...
Your throttle is closing up twice in the third gear pull.. but I am not sure if your tuner is using throttle to control the load? If they are it could be that... but your LTFT and STFT are within reason... and you ARE holding boost a bit above desired... but not much.. a couple kpa...
Your RPMs are not smooth however.. not sure what is going on there? Could just be how the data is being recorded but its not a smooth acceleration..
Small amount KR but not much... I am surprised you are getting any KR with OAR sitting at -.30...
Are you recording to a laptop? or through the SCT device?
I am going to get a cleaner log today.
-AJPtune/brad
-SCT logger
-nothing different than the last 60 or so datalogs.
I am glad your confused. /sorry/ ,, because I am at my literal wits end. 3000$+ in parts and were right where we were.
Your log that was posted today does not show you spraying anything....
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
Your log that was posted today does not show you spraying anything....
meth is off, and i'm on a non-meth tune. in fact i am on a less aggressive tune. let me dig up a non-meth datalog.
here is a non-meth tune. This is revision 11 of Brad's magic, this is WAY before meth, and it is a mild tune.
Going down stairs. Single parenting .. probably be a bit before i get back in the forum.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 28, 2018, 12:38:34 PM
here is a non-meth tune. This is revision 11 of Brad's magic, this is WAY before meth, and it is a mild tune.
Its like the resolution on the new log is all out of wack... I am not sure why its doing that? The way your new log is being presented makes it harder to tell wtf is actually going on...
hmm well I will look up how to reset it. maybe that will help.
@ TopherSho you need to take a deep breath and relax my friend!
I Don't think you need the extra stress! :smoke:
I can certainly emphasize and feel for you my friend!
I must admit as far as tuning goes your in the best hands with AJP no doubt!
I thought the warranty covered partial 1500.00! Dunno! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 28, 2018, 12:55:25 PM
@ TopherSho you need to take a deep breath and relax my friend!
I Don't think you need the extra stress! :smoke:
I can certainly emphasize and feel for you my friend!
I must admit as far as tuning goes your in the best hands with AJP no doubt!
I thought the warranty covered s partial 1500.00! Dunno! Z
2800$ out of pocket after warranty coverage.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 28, 2018, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 28, 2018, 12:55:25 PM
@ TopherSho you need to take a deep breath and relax my friend!
I Don't think you need the extra stress! :smoke:
I can certainly emphasize and feel for you my friend!
I must admit as far as tuning goes your in the best hands with AJP no doubt!
I thought the warranty covered s partial 1500.00! Dunno! Z
2800$ out of pocket after warranty coverage.
I'm hoping the Tax man will give you some additional credit in the weeks to come! Z
Hmm i do not see a way to reset the SCT device. all I an see is update and or update firmware which seem to be the same thing ?
flashing back to stock
then i will update the firmware on the SCT. I have never down the SCT update as it worked so i left it alone.
then i will put the best-non-meth tune back on.
I put a after hours trouble ticket into SCT.. i suspect it is just the option to update the firmware.. but we will see.
then i will have to put back the mild tune drive around for a while and then get a much more complete log of the wastegate / bad boost issue.
You've never updated the device!? Do not use the update firmware box....return the vehicle to stock. Then make sure you have he latest version of the device updater program. Then use the box that says automatically check for updates that's all you need
Nope never did. Read to many horror stories.
i have reverted to stock now
just put the old oem 2-bar map back in and its idling
going to run the updates now..
in the computer world where i work, you dont touch the firmware unless there is a actual nee/fix for it .. kinda held that to heart with the SCT device as well.
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
You've never updated the device!? Do not use the update firmware box....return the vehicle to stock. Then make sure you have he latest version of the device updater program. Then use the box that says automatically check for updates that's all you need
... 272 udates .. lol ... this will take a while.
the update firmware looks like the same thing as update device except it sources local files. should be the same result.
ok, i am off to log it in stock baseline. just to see if the weird spikey behavior continues. be a while.
Good luck, hope this fixes it.
Someone mentioned barometric pressure once, where is that sensor? i see it listed separately from boost/map readings.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 28, 2018, 01:43:01 PM
Nope never did. Read to many horror stories.
Well I'd say most of the horror stories are from people that try to update without reverting to stock like the instructions say to do....I'm not going to say this will fix anything but I update my software almost daily so there is a chance that if I made a tune and you were on some old firmware or software that might not be good.
I would update your device weekly if prompted to do so especially if you are currently in tuning sessions with someone.
So when you load a tune onto your device in the updater program and it has been prompting you to update and you ignored it?
And also the auto update box does everything in one shot...Firmware, software...The firmware update is for tech support only, it says that.
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 02:19:58 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 28, 2018, 01:43:01 PM
Nope never did. Read to many horror stories.
Well I'd say most of the horror stories are from people that try to update without reverting to stock like the instructions say to do....I'm not going to say this will fix anything but I update my software almost daily so there is a chance that if I made a tune and you were on some old firmware or software that might not be good.
I would update your device weekly if prompted to do so especially if you are currently in tuning sessions with someone.
So when you load a tune onto your device in the updater program and it has been prompting you to update and you ignored it?
And also the auto update box does everything in one shot...Firmware, software...The firmware update is for tech support only, it says that.
it never prompted. but that may have been me ticking the box to not remind me on the 1st run.
i have new pids.. and some of them are for the bootstbypass valve. i am going to collect that and then a datalog using your standard config file .. probably be 90 minutes or so.
be back later
thank you everyone. getting super desperate.
Baro is embedded on the PCM.
It should be a logable parameter but IDK, my MKS has very few PIDS compared to my newer SHOs.
You have been under the assumption that overboost is the issue and maybe you need to look at it differently? As in maybe the overboost is just a symptom that is being caused by something else.
Have you logged spark source? You mentioned spark going from 28-0-28 repeatedly and I would want to know where that command is coming from.
Also, this started after a run at the strip? I'm assuming a hard launch? I would assume that isn't a coincidence and start looking at every connection I could get my hands on that could be strained by such a launch.
Are you logging misfires? Have you confirmed it is misfiring or not? If not with that kind of behavior I'm thinking ESC or TC involvement could cause that kind of behavior. I also know the newer gens have a habit of ESC faults as you cross the 100 MPH barrier. Maybe this is happening in the early models but in a different way...it seems the newer gens PCM is quite a bit more advanced.
Take a deep breath! Desperation sounds a lot like panic and all that is going to do is cloud your thinking and judgement.
ok here is two STOCK .96 OAR level logs.
EDIT :: looks like the SCT choppines is solved. smooth logs..
LOG1 :: One is the wealth of new pids i found .. including wastegate pids for the bypass and baraomoter.
i included a bunch fun troubleshooty sounding stuff. i have no idea if anyone else has anything they can help compare me to... if you have a 2010 with DMJKBLA id be curious if you logged the same pids on a 1-4th gear autopull what the diffs might be.
LOG2 :: std brad logging cfg file datalog.
now here's the fun new part. it is no longer doing the bad behavior in stock mode. in fact stock mode is way stronger than i recall it being.. wierd but ok. gives me about an inch of hope.
swapping back to my good solid tune from before the meth, off to drive the oar to .96 and get the same 2 logs.
FoMo; yeah Brad an i log the spark, knock, tqsrc. with the new pids i found i added anything that said 'safe', 'fault' or error and the usual tqsrc and knock and misfire to the new 'wth' config file.
when i get my 'tuned' OAR back to .96 i will run the same two logs i just attached with it, it is a 14psi tune with a emphasis on spark from brad.
all comments are appreciated.
this have been going on for almost 6 months so if it sounds like panic it is a mix of frustration, desperation panic and a dash of pissed off :P the fact Ford has not idea whats going on is super frustrating.
I am very tempted to start tuning from scratch and get a base tune from brad and go through the basics again, see where we hit the wall. Brad what do you think?
Quote from: TopherSho on January 28, 2018, 05:17:38 PM
ok here is two STOCK .96 OAR level logs.
LOG1 :: One is the wealth of new pids i found .. including wastegate pids for the bypass and baraomoter.
i included a bunch fun troubleshooty sounding stuff. i have no idea if anyone else has anything they can help compare me to... if you have a 2010 with DMJKBLA id be curious if you logged the same pids on a 1-4th gear autopull what the diffs might be.
LOG2 :: std brad logging cfg file datalog.
now here's the fun new part. it is no longer doing the bad behavior in stock mode. in fact stock mode is way stronger than i recall it being.. wierd but ok. gives me about an inch of hope.
swapping back to my good solid tune from before the meth, off to drive the oar to .96 and get the same 2 logs.
FoMo; yeah Brad an i log the spark, knock, tqsrc. with the new pids i found i added anything that said 'safe', 'fault' or error and the usual tqsrc and knock and misfire to the new 'wth' config file.
when i get my 'tuned' OAR back to .96 i will run the same two logs i just attached with it, it is a 14psi tune with a emphasis on spark from brad.
all comments are appreciated.
this have been going on for almost 6 months so if it sounds like panic it is a mix of frustration, desperation panic and a dash of pissed off :P the fact Ford has not idea whats going on is super frustrating.
I am very tempted to start tuning from scratch and get a base tune from brad and go through the basics again, see where we hit the wall. Brad what do you think?
I have the same strategy... its a weird one at that. Logs like a normal stock SHO... I don't see anything there that is noteworthy..
Our strategy doesn't respond the way most strategies do, at least that is the impression I get from Brad after the 40+ revisions we have been through. Which sucks for a platitude of reasons... in any event, I am sure Brad can work through it... it could very well be a tuning issue.
I guess the tune and tuning device not being in sync might have been causing the errors all along? Wow! Although $$$ were spent, an end to the hair-pulling would be SWEET!
Not spark, spark source, its like torque source but for spark.
I appreciate the responses from ^^^ as this Topic alone has helped me setup my newly acquired X4 in organizing a list of standard Pid's and hopefully will do some logging in the coming weeks to see what the crap is going on! LOL. Thanks! Z :
Ok I am back with round #2 @ 14 pounds PSI.
Observation - on this tune :
1st gear =0 issues
2nd gear =no issues .. i think. might be placebo.
3rd gear = we have issues but to a WAY lesser degree at high RPM. it flutters and hiccups, and kind of stalls the cars speed but it at least will finish 3rd gear.
i have not looked at these, it may not be very noticable. only look at 3rd past 5000rpm.
i will now load the 15psi non-meth tune. that one all but stalls the car the last time i had it in. but those logs wont come until tomorrow.
i will add spark source to a copy of brads CFG file. i will dump a couple pids like speed, cylinder head temp, and add spark-source.
so this seems to be pressure related. but all the bits are new. turbos, boost bypass solenoid, all the hoses to the boost bypass solenoid, (2) 3bar maps.
hopefully with the 3rd set of logs where s*** gets real bad we can look for differences and start putting things together.
it does seem the new turbos have added some punch..
thank you for looking .
Dude... those logs look really good... I can't see anything in them that shows a hiccup. NOW... I will say this... being as we both have the same strategy... sometimes with the SCT platform tunes I experience what feels like a miss.. its like a quick hiccup in the higher RPMs every once in a blue moon... happens with BCB, Unleashed, and Brad. I have spoken to Brad about it before but to date I have not been able to find a single shred of evidence in the logs to show it.
It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.
Wish I could say I saw something to help you out. I am sure Brad is probably just as frustrated...
IMHO I wouldn't load any tune that is more aggressive if the stutter and hiccups are as bad as you say. I would attempt to figure out what is going on with the mildest tune that produces the issue.
Looking good so far and much better but on the log that said "test other" your knock sensor reading went nuts and something is wrong with the reading...It went to like -20 and I know you weren't adding 20 degrees of spark and your spark was normal looking in the high teens.....I thought you had another log like that today....but the resolution looks so much better now
You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?
This is just so weird now....But you are not overboosting as of the last logs.
Quote from: ZSHO on January 28, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
I appreciate the responses from ^^^ as this Topic alone has helped me setup my newly acquired X4 in organizing a list of standard Pid's and hopefully will do some logging in the coming weeks to see what the crap is going on! LOL. Thanks! Z :
How many PIDS does your strategy have?
I went from over 1000 to 200 in the MKS, total buzzkill.
I built multiple config files for the 15, there was all kinds of cool stuff to look at.
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
Looking good so far and much better but on the log that said "test other" your knock sensor reading went nuts and something is wrong with the reading...It went to like -20 and I know you weren't adding 20 degrees of spark and your spark was normal looking in the high teens.....I thought you had another log like that today....but the resolution looks so much better now
There is probably more than one 'knock' reading but i will re-scan the pids and look back in there and see if i added the wrong one.
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?
It is toggled off. no juice in the circuit, the pump is direct to battery. the relay is ignition hot wire powered, and its wired off the ignition to a single pole toggle so i can de-power the circuit at my command. it has been of since late september/early october?
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 08:30:45 PM
Dude... those logs look really good... I can't see anything in them that shows a hiccup. NOW... I will say this... being as we both have the same strategy... sometimes with the SCT platform tunes I experience what feels like a miss.. its like a quick hiccup in the higher RPMs every once in a blue moon... happens with BCB, Unleashed, and Brad. I have spoken to Brad about it before but to date I have not been able to find a single shred of evidence in the logs to show it.
It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.
That is EXACTLY the issue as it stands after the parts swapping. perfect description except mine hits over and over like hammer on the 14.5/15 pound tunes past 4500 rpmish in fact it feels like the car might loose enough steam to not make it to 4th gear. As much as i do not want to abuse the drive train and motor. I am still going forward with a follow-up 15 pound test where it is at its worst. (1) you said you could not see it, but i felt it in the 14 pound tune, it slowed the car down...but the issue was reduced like 75%... it is subtle so it may not be showing well enough in the 14-pound logs. (2) now that i'm not over boosting, maybe well see the issue better? or well see behavior similar to over boosting.. either way with 2800$ in parts we changed the elements of the problem so we have to retest to establish new baseline/issue parameters.
i need to swap out a few things in brads config, then switch to the 15 pound tune. might have logs tomorrow ... lets see where were at after the new parts infusion
There was another user on this forum that had issues with stuttering as well but only with SCT tunes.
My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it's a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it's not isolated to Brads tune but it only happens with SCT tunes.
Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 10:32:46 PM
There was another user on this forum that had issues with stuttering as well but only with SCT tunes.
My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it's a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it's not isolated to Brads tune but it only happens with SCT tunes.
Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...
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You know when i talked to some guy at SCT, when i told him my firmware he sucked air through his teeth, and every pid/dmr i ever asked for to be added to the tuner has gone to the wastebasket. it seems this firmware is an issue.
the weird thing is it happend a little over time. I felt it before, but not like it is now. and the day after running my 12.6 runs for 20 runs it became 100% worse. I had thought it was the pump.. but I now know better.
well if it keeps doing what it did prior to the SCT update and reset the 15 pound tune logs will show a horror show. i HOPE the spark does it 28-0-28 bit. with spark sourse maybe ... maybe well get something.
Offtopic possibly, but have you checked trans fluid level? Maybe overfilling it by a pint might help. I don't think this is a PTU issue, but no leaks there, right?
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 28, 2018, 06:27:28 PM
Not spark, spark source, its like torque source but for spark.
Dang, i do not see a spark source...
i'm superstitious .. so ... not saying s*** until tomorrow after noon PST when i can do a run on my farm road in the daylight ... but stay tuned.
It might be #%%ing fixed.
i have been beating on it at lunch, not logging possible. and it seems ok now. walked away from some kids in a shiny 5.0 on a onramp stop light who looked very confused when they caught up at the freeway interchange 30 seconds later. Left a very angry older Porche 930 driver behind on the same on ramp on the way back. then lost only by a little bit to a angry sounding Caddi-Vsport something or other. (looked like an aplha platfrom)
there is still some kind of fluttering, but it might be placebo or turbulence since i am running without the bottom splash guard.
when i have time to do real testing i will know more.
so it seems two fold. (1) overboosting is now fixed, (2) updating the tuner stopped the bad fluttering and stalling.
or .. fixing the tuner fixed the over boosting? I dunno.. i had a cracked bad turbine and control arm.. so in the end i'm just going to validate my findings and just go with it. If i fixed this with the tuner earlier i'd likely blown the engine with the bad turbo on race day at PIR so .. its a wash.
i need a drink.
You may be at a Hallelujah crossroads lol. Make sure it is not singleparenting day when you imbibe tho!
Quote from: SHOdded on January 29, 2018, 05:34:33 PM
You may be at a Hallelujah crossroads lol. Make sure it is not singleparenting day when you imbibe tho!
I am still befuddled. And angry now actually.
how the freak did a tune ''go bad'' ?
it is the same tune, on the same handheld applied to the same car that did not change in any way.
NOTHING changed t any of those three things.
corruption might explain 1 tune on the SCt handheld but all f**king 5 tunes!!?? 2 meth tunes and 3 non meth tunes????
if my turbo turbine had not been cracked and the control arm practically falling off .. that 2800$ would have damn made me set some fire.. edit : (redacted some angry posting)
if this is a ''thing'' i may have some stern words for SCT...
I dont think it is a question of corruption. I think a change in parameters and tune handling is what goes on with device updates. They must be correcting and improving software performance with the updates, and the tune has to be in sync with the current firmware/software. This is very common on software platforms. I have seen this in my custom programming when the platform comes out with updates, suddenly my program starts behaving erratically, UNTIL I read the documentation and update my custom program to comply with the platform's current environment.
$2800 in the long run isn't enough money to get that upset about.
As far as the tunes going corrupt, I doubt it. If your telling me that all the tunes ran great one day and bad the next without any changes then perhaps its environmental? These ECUs are extremely complex in how they handle different environmental values. Hell there is one in there to adjust the cars boost based on elevation.... let alone temps, loads, etc...
Maybe the tune ran well during the summer months because the IATs were warmer? And in the winter months with the colder IATs your pushing more spark sooner(or later) in the RPM band?
Grasping here lol... but all those variables do make a difference.
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Im not an IT or programming guy by any means but in order to eliminate possible causes it's standard operating procedure for tech support to make sure the customers device and tune version is using up to date software...you chose not to do that
I suppose it's possible that I had made a tune on newer soft/firm ware than your device was set up for
Add to that that I still think something was wrong with the wastegate actuator
Regardless, this is ending up good right? Im looking to see when you post logs so I can check them out
Temp changes would not make boost change that much....Topher's was massively overboosting in the top end where boost normally tapers...ive never seem that
That's the great thing about closed loop boost control...to a point the boost will be taken care of as long as the target boost was where you want it and his was
Another option here is to offload the SHO and get an STI... I heard those will gap an SHO all day long... ;-)
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 29, 2018, 07:46:47 PM
Temp changes would not make boost change that much....Topher's was massively overboosting in the top end where boost normally tapers...ive never seem that
That's the great thing about closed loop boost control...to a point the boost will be taken care of as long as the target boost was where you want it and his was
I was referring to the stuttering issue he is having that I also experience. Unfortunately I have tried to datalog the issue but nothing shows in the datalog..even when it happens during a logging session. Overboosting is a different issue all together...
Quote from: SHOdded on January 29, 2018, 07:33:31 PM
I dont think it is a question of corruption. I think a change in parameters and tune handling is what goes on with device updates. They must be correcting and improving software performance with the updates, and the tune has to be in sync with the current firmware/software. This is very common on software platforms. I have seen this in my custom programming when the platform comes out with updates, suddenly my program starts behaving erratically, UNTIL I read the documentation and update my custom program to comply with the platform's current environment.
I might agree with this if the issue fixed itself in 2 months when it warms up. But fixed itself IMMEDIATELY after resting the handheld.
It is just way to coincidental.
My tin hat is on tight for this one. After the reset every tune worked. Before even stock stuttered which prompted the parts parade.
I'm glad it works I know what fixed it but my tech nature doesn't know the root cause an it BUGS me
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 29, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Another option here is to offload the SHO and get an STI... I heard those will gap an SHO all day long... ;-)
Really now !? Now your just trying to take me out of my perfectly bad mood with that comedy :) I can't count the number of suburbs that I have left behind at PIR. (I don't race with Turns :p )
Quote from: TopherSho on January 29, 2018, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 29, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Another option here is to offload the SHO and get an STI... I heard those will gap an SHO all day long... ;-)
[quote/]
Really now !? Now your just trying to take me out of my perfectly bad mode with that comedy :) I can't count the number of suburbs that I have left behind at PIR. (I don't race with Trina :p )
Gotta inject humor sometimes buddy...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on January 29, 2018, 07:49:09 PM
Another option here is to offload the SHO and get an STI... I heard those will gap an SHO all day long... ;-)
What are you drinking?
Must be some good sheeeat!
Ok driving in a second.. post later
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/9540f149095f4d6f9ccdc232424eaa15.jpg)
All day long...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on January 29, 2018, 08:31:36 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/9540f149095f4d6f9ccdc232424eaa15.jpg)
All day long...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Full of Vodka right ? :drunk:
Cheer's to that! Z
(https://i.imgur.com/TlobhXVh.jpg)
Its busted again, Same behavior. super bad stuttering under prolonged boost in 2nd and 3rd past 4000 rpm.
it was doing perfect, multiple starts and stops, hard driving then normal driving. but on the way home from Coburg Pizza, it hiccuped 1x in 2nd. that made me suspicious so i dropped the mini-me off and went out and gave it a hard push from a stop and sure enough 2nd was a mess past 5000 rpm, and keeping my foot in third made it start having a seizure after 4000 rpm in third.
No logs, will try tomorrow.
there has been no handheld hooked up since the ''fix'' of resetting the SCT. so the only thing that has changed is 'time' on the car.
if this is a bad ecu that losing cell data, i may have conniption fit. i am going to pull all the tunes off the handheld, then put the good ones back. and re-flash the car to oem, then back to the good 15 pound tune.
sigh
What tune revision were you on when it behaved bad?
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 31, 2018, 12:15:32 AM
What tune revision were you on when it behaved bad?
This one (attached). It ran for about 36 hours without issue on this tune. then tonight it regressed. I want to data log it with both the old config log, and the new datalog.
F$%k it.. I'm going to get a partial log right now, it's easy to reproduce at mostly legal speeds for 2nd gear.
3rd would be better and it would be in range of the issue longer but its to dark. well do that tomorrow.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 31, 2018, 12:30:47 AM
F$%k it.. I'm going to get a partial log right now, it's easy to reproduce at mostly legal speeds for 2nd gear.
3rd would be better and it would be in range of the issue longer but its to dark. well do that tomorrow.
If you wait a minute I'll rebuild the file and make it a fresh copy for shits and giggles.
To late. i was out the door already :P
it had 3-4 VERY HARD stutters in third about 3/4 through the gear. I saw the RPM needle actually 'tick' back. But do not see it in the log.
It did not hammer over and over like it did right after Pizaa... :P i did not have the laptop hooked up so i wanted to keep the log i captured with hard stutters it did do.
I don't see anything in the log with my amateur eyeballs. but again it wasn't hammering like it did a couple hours ago. ...
I was actually going to suggest we port the tunes by hand, and create from scratch copies now that my handheld is updated. But I REALLY want to get the data before I apply anything. so build away, but i may not apply it right away.
So here is a question, i have backups of the stock tune from the SCT handheld. Reverting to stock after the update did 'something' to temp fix it... if the tuner did go off the deep end do we trust the on-SCT device copy of the stock firmware? Or should i see about getting SCT support to restore the backup i have to the device so i can flash back to a known good stock firmware?
Seems more a PCM issue than SCT, like the adaptives have kicked in ... Can anybody lend an uptodate X4 for comparative purposes?
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 05:27:40 AM
Seems more a PCM issue than SCT, like the adaptives have kicked in ... Can anybody lend an uptodate X4 for comparative purposes?
I don't have a problem lending my X4 but I strongly doubt that the hand held is the issue..
I would start looking at recording transmission PIDS. It's sounds like perhaps the adaptives are causing problems in how the transmission is behaving...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on January 31, 2018, 06:52:00 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 05:27:40 AM
Seems more a PCM issue than SCT, like the adaptives have kicked in ... Can anybody lend an uptodate X4 for comparative purposes?
I don't have a problem lending my X4 but I strongly doubt that the hand held is the issue..
I would start looking at recording transmission PIDS. It's sounds like perhaps the adaptives are causing problems in how the transmission is behaving...
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Adaptives? i have not done any research diligence into this. Give me a short run-down?
Brad I have the re-issued tune. Thank you sir.
Take a look at this thread, I had to do this 2? times with my SHO cause it got wonky idling and was shifting weird after bad flashes.
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2217.0 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2217.0)
Hopefully that helps. The adaptive reset process is pretty simple.
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 31, 2018, 06:52:00 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 05:27:40 AM
Seems more a PCM issue than SCT, like the adaptives have kicked in ... ?
I would start looking at recording transmission PIDS. It's sounds like perhaps the adaptives are causing problems in how the transmission is behaving...
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Mostly the adaptives in the trans settings are to help the PCM achieve the proper pressure for the desired slip times for the shifts...There really isn't anything that would "fight" the tune or make something revert back after a flash...The biggest things that are affected by adaptives is fuel corrections.
There is something esle odd and not sure if it's related but when you are spooling up in 1st gear your desired TIP and wastegate duty is really choppy. The RPM line in 1st and 2nd gear is pretty smooth but when you settle into 3rd gear the RPM gets choppy...Not sure if that's because you are sweeping through the revs slower and resolution is better.
(page 340 for my 2010) which states:
After a battery disconnect, the car must relearn idle and trim settings.
Start the car and let it come up to operating temp.
Turn on the A/C and let it idle for 1 min.
With the A/C on disengage the parking brake, place your foot on the brake and shift to drive, let it idle for 1 min.
Then drive the car over 10 miles.
Ok I did a KAM reset but did not do any of the specific steps. I warmed it up, pulled the cable for 30 minutes and just drove nice.
I will do the needful on these extra steps.
@Brad, on the rpm jitters. that may be the closest were going to get to it logging the fluttering. Fluttering is what it does around 4000+, the more you push it hard in 3rd the flutter then gives way to outright stutters loss of power and stalling.
Wait, does the tach flutter on cruise with steady load? That is usually a torque converter symptom.
I did it *one* time last night, and AJP just advised my log showed my converter speed being jittery.
based on that and your comment, I am going to spin up a new config file that gathers more tranny pids, and keep gear, cam, load, throttle actual angle, rpm, oar, knock, misfire, sparkv2, bootskpa, boost-dsd, TQ src, wastegate % and add on MiL, DTC counter in addition to some other trans data points.
Quote""Your torque converter speed ratio is all choppy to in the log during the 3rd gear...That's making me wonder if the converter is making the rpm choppy.""
what i need is new logging parameters with the issue going hard .. have not been able to nail it yet
? Are we thinking bad TQ converter ?
Quote from: TopherSho on January 31, 2018, 11:12:27 AM
? Are we thinking bad TQ converter ?
Would make sense... it started after the track right? When you launch from a dig your loading up that converter before moving... that's a lot of stress.
Curious, what RPM where you launching from?
Only question is why does it not happen after a fresh flash? Only after a while?
When's the last time you had a fluid flush for your transmission?
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Quote from: stealbluesho on January 31, 2018, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 31, 2018, 11:12:27 AM
? Are we thinking bad TQ converter ?
Would make sense... it started after the track right? When you launch from a dig your loading up that converter before moving... that's a lot of stress.
Curious, what RPM where you launching from?
Only question is why does it not happen after a fresh flash? Only after a while?
When's the last time you had a fluid flush for your transmission?
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in order :
no idea, i blew up my waste gates .. kinda over lapping behaviors
2200 on average and lower
I bet it is because one of the flashes coincided with me accidentally clearing the pcm when i pulled ALL the BCB fuses to scrape them shiny.
Edit:: I thought you mean the PTU :P, SBS, I have 50k miles on the car.. maybe 150 races and about and equal number of hard launches.. I will see about checking the level and color and smell.
would you recommend adding the 1/3 to 1/2 quart OVER fill to prevent foaming and slippage?
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 10:09:45 AM
Wait, does the tach flutter on cruise with steady load? That is usually a torque converter symptom.
So far no, only under very sustained WoT load. If the fluid is bad, or low .. that may make sense that at higher rpm we start getting jittery / stuttery engagement as the fluid foams heats up or is 'spun to the walls' and not localized to some component?
... maybe .. spit-balling?
Grasping at straws here for you. But if it is still acting up and you have not changed a bunch of things, maybe try a KAM clear with the handheld and see if it helps for a while? Just thinking if it was an adaptive issue, that would show it conclusively.
well, to help eliminate the trans, a) make sure the fluid is perfect, and b) maybe top it off by a pint past the hashmarks (tip from LME to help prevent cavitation). Too little mileage for TSS/OSS sensor or valve body/SBA involvement, but you say you have a lot of track mileage on the SHO, so the "true" mileage could be more than what the numbers tell us. Some people are fanatical enough to change trans fluid after every track session, and have apparently reaped the benefits of doing so!
BTW, transmission adaptives IME do not change with a KAM reset, that is just the PCM portion. The TCM / SBA portion has to be reset with IDS or similar highend scan device.
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 05:39:30 PM
BTW, transmission adaptives IME do not change with a KAM reset, that is just the PCM portion. The TCM / SBA portion has to be reset with IDS or similar highend scan device.
I'm not 100% sure of that? Correct me if I am wrong but LMS has always preached that after an initial flash the transmission shifts can be harsh until the adaptives kick in. I would think that the SCT platform is similar.
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The tuner may reset the TCM adaptive tables, IDK. You would have to ask them that. But these tables are independent of the tables in the PCM.
Quote from: stealbluesho on January 31, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2018, 05:39:30 PM
BTW, transmission adaptives IME do not change with a KAM reset, that is just the PCM portion. The TCM / SBA portion has to be reset with IDS or similar highend scan device.
I'm not 100% sure of that? Correct me if I am wrong but LMS has always preached that after an initial flash the transmission shifts can be harsh until the adaptives kick in. I would think that the SCT platform is similar.
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Agreed with SHOdded! THe Trans adaptives can only be reset with IDS or similar high end scan tools! Z
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWMliD_3s3o#)
Added 1/3 to 1/2 a qt of tranny fluid and retested. Still stuttering hard, making it into 4th was questionable. I have a brad-cfg log of the event, not a new tranny log for it so i will upload it later.
I set up a tranny log that has all the tranny pids EXCEPT voltage so i could keep rpm and some of the other normal stuff. i will try to get a log of the issue using that tonight!
Here is the brad-CFG log of today's run. Note how long it takes @ WoT to get to 4th gear, the choppy rpm, choppy intake timing. look at the back half of 3rd. note the waste-gate gets choppy as well and the whole last 3-4 seconds is super jittery awfulness. yet.. no tell tale source of issues.
I cannot make a tranny log tonight. it will have to be tomorrow. :(
After the tranny log i will follow the Adaptive reset procedure. but i will note that i have had the cables off before for overnight work and not had to do this. on the good side.. the wife BEGRUDGINGLY singed off on 500-600$ more for a possible TQ-converter.
But i think that's it. after that shes done spending money and i sadly think she will be right.
Checking voltage and resistance values on the TCM/SBA will help eliminate that as a physical concern. Very DIY, will only take your time, and a DVOM. Same thing with the transmission range sensor. If the connectors on the PCM have not been inspected, they can be inspected, cleaned and greased as a DIY project.
Let's see what the trans log shows, if anything.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 31, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
Here is the brad-CFG log of today's run. Note how long it takes @ WoT to get to 4th gear, the choppy rpm, choppy intake timing. look at the back half of 3rd. note the waste-gate gets choppy as well and the whole last 3-4 seconds is super jittery awfulness. yet.. no tell tale source of issues.
I cannot make a tranny log tonight. it will have to be tomorrow. :(
After the tranny log i will follow the Adaptive reset procedure. but i will note that i have had the cables off before for overnight work and not had to do this. on the good side.. the wife BEGRUDGINGLY singed off on 500-600$ more for a possible TQ-converter.
But i think that's it. after that shes done spending money and i sadly think she will be right.
I can see in the log EVErYTHING gets choppy halfway through 3rd gear.... wastegate, rpms, manifold pressure, and speedo.. not sure what would be causing EVERYTHING to get choppy like that...
yeah... that is he problem now. This isn't a TQ converter. .. this is some kind of 'noise', bad harness, bad ground, pcm.
:( Were super close to either being fixed. Or reverting to stock and selling it. :( I am not chasing wiring harness demons. I just don't have the skill.
I am still going to log the tranny .. but i am mentally prepping that we wont find the TQ converter is bad. once we see that I will drop in the fresh hand made tune from brad (from scratch new tune on both updated SCT's) and at the same time do the needfull PCM reset for adaptives.
After that all I can do will be to get a PCM on the web, and try to have ford install it. That will be the last of the car money, no more water in the well.
Quote from: TopherSho on February 01, 2018, 10:11:11 AM
yeah... that is he problem now. This isn't a TQ converter. .. this is some kind of 'noise', bad harness, bad ground, pcm.
:( Were super close to either being fixed. Or reverting to stock and selling it. :( I am not chasing wiring harness demons. I just don't have the skill.
I am still going to log the tranny .. but i am mentally prepping that we wont find the TQ converter is bad. once we see that I will drop in the fresh hand made tune from brad (from scratch new tune on both updated SCT's) and at the same time do the needfull PCM reset for adaptives.
After that all I can do will be to get a PCM on the web, and try to have ford install it. That will be the last of the car money, no more water in the well.
Is it still having the same problems when stock?
Only reason I ask, is if the issue persists while stock, instead of dumping money into guessing, it might be worth while paying a decent dealership hook it up to their IDS system to see if they can find anything. It would be cheaper at this point than throwing parts at it and praying it works.
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 01, 2018, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on February 01, 2018, 10:11:11 AM
yeah... that is he problem now. This isn't a TQ converter. .. this is some kind of 'noise', bad harness, bad ground, pcm.
:( Were super close to either being fixed. Or reverting to stock and selling it. :( I am not chasing wiring harness demons. I just don't have the skill.
I am still going to log the tranny .. but i am mentally prepping that we wont find the TQ converter is bad. once we see that I will drop in the fresh hand made tune from brad (from scratch new tune on both updated SCT's) and at the same time do the needfull PCM reset for adaptives.
After that all I can do will be to get a PCM on the web, and try to have ford install it. That will be the last of the car money, no more water in the well.
Is it still having the same problems when stock?
I do not think I drove it long enough on the stock tune. The 15-pound tune went 'bad' like 24-36 hours later after multiple restarts. the OEM tune was on there long enough to get the OAR to .96, and get a clean set of logs. Then it was off to the 14 pound tune, where i drove it for a few hours to get the OAR set and log it again.
I may not have driven the OEM tune enough, and even if it repros, the DAMN dealers did not want to touch it, and were unable to provide any assistance.
Agreed with SBS! FWIW you can always find a used PCM on Ebay for fairly cheap which is the (Brain) of the vehicle and just have it programmed @ the Dealer if that's the case!!!
What's your VIN Number? I'm presume it's an earlier build Job 1 ?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0)
Brad also suggested a PCM swap ..
VIN = 1fahp2kt3ag106362
STRATEGY = DMJKBLA
ECU SWPN = AA5A-14C204-DF
ok this is weird.. Why does my SWPN not match up to any known ford ecus ?
ECU SWPN = AA5A-14C204-DF
Does not show direct replacment by either of these ::
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-lincoln-mks-engine-control-module-ba5z12a650pd/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpY2FsJnM9cG93ZXJ0cmFpbi1jb250cm9sJmk9S0QwOTEwNzUmcj1sYXllcl8xJmE9Zm9yZCZvPXRhdXJ1cyZ5PTIwMTAmdD1zaG8mZT0zLTVsLXY2LWdhcw%3D%3D (https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-lincoln-mks-engine-control-module-ba5z12a650pd/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpY2FsJnM9cG93ZXJ0cmFpbi1jb250cm9sJmk9S0QwOTEwNzUmcj1sYXllcl8xJmE9Zm9yZCZvPXRhdXJ1cyZ5PTIwMTAmdD1zaG8mZT0zLTVsLXY2LWdhcw%3D%3D)
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-ecm-ba5z12a650nd/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpY2FsJnM9cG93ZXJ0cmFpbi1jb250cm9sJmk9S0QwOTEwNzUmcj1sYXllcl8xJmE9Zm9yZCZvPXRhdXJ1cyZ5PTIwMTAmdD1zaG8mZT0zLTVsLXY2LWdhcw%3D%3D (https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-ecm-ba5z12a650nd/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpY2FsJnM9cG93ZXJ0cmFpbi1jb250cm9sJmk9S0QwOTEwNzUmcj1sYXllcl8xJmE9Zm9yZCZvPXRhdXJ1cyZ5PTIwMTAmdD1zaG8mZT0zLTVsLXY2LWdhcw%3D%3D)
Do i have some early one-off s*** jugging weird version of an ECU ?
edit .. man i am in a bad mood.
I think i found something interesting!
Fordetis.com seems to be down l! Dunno! Z
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362 (https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362)
Topher,
Weather been sporadic up here. If you can start tracking weather or at least keep it in the back of your mind when these events are worse/better. Not sure if car is garage etc..
My last car (Caddy STSV) suddenly started throwing ABS/Traction control failure messages in the rain when leaving stop signs and turning. ONLY when raining. I did a harness check and connectors and all was good, so has to be some other failure that only cropped up drivining rain.. Weather can be a beast up here on electrical type issues, just another thing to keep in back of mind.
And yes I sold that car within 2 months of it starting to do that an bought the SHO... LOVED that car, but too many gremlins in 2yrs of ownership and that was last straw... I feel your pain!
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 12:12:24 PM
I think i found something interesting!
Fordetis.com seems to be down l! Dunno! Z
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362 (https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362)
Yeah i saw those a long time ago when i car-faxed it, and did another site lookup. nothing jumps out at me.
VIN: 1FAHP2KT6AG107151
Strategy: DMJKBLA
ECU SWPN: AU7A-14C204-GTC
For comparison considering we have the same strategy...
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Quote from: lamrith on February 01, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
Topher,
Weather been sporadic up here. If you can start tracking weather or at least keep it in the back of your mind when these events are worse/better. Not sure if car is garage etc..
My last car (Caddy STSV) suddenly started throwing ABS/Traction control failure messages in the rain when leaving stop signs and turning. ONLY when raining. I did a harness check and connectors and all was good, so has to be some other failure that only cropped up drivining rain.. Weather can be a beast up here on electrical type issues, just another thing to keep in back of mind.
And yes I sold that car within 2 months of it starting to do that an bought the SHO... LOVED that car, but too many gremlins in 2yrs of ownership and that was last straw... I feel your pain!
I was going to head down this same path. If you're still in Oregon, the moisture content of this year and all others combined could be your problem. Especially if the car is parked outside all the time. If you had any problems with the original battery leaking down on the harness below, over time would create a problem.
Mine leaked and acid got to the harness but I cleaned and wrapped existing wires to prevent any possible electrical problems. I was close to the coast too so it was worse. You may have moisture though or rust problems somewhere because of the constant moisture you're surrounded by.
There were a few TSB related to the PCM that kind of popped out @ me! Dunno! Z
It's also a Job 1 as mentioned ^^^
ATE COMPONENT DETAILS
07-01-2010 102000 Power Train:manual Transmission Ford/lincoln: transmission built before 6/1/10 with 4th gear start, delay/hesitation on acceleration from a stop-no dtcs this may be caused by a sticking multiplex shift valve in the valve body *pe
07-01-2010 103000 Power Train:automatic Transmission Ford/lincoln: transmission built before 6/1/10 with 4th gear start, delay/hesitation on acceleration from a stop-no dtcs this may be caused by a sticking multiplex shift valve in the valve body *pe
01-01-2011 103100 Power Train:automatic Transmission:control Module (tcm, Pcm) Ford: there may be a loss of power, hesitation, surge, or lack of throttle response while driving the brake over accelerator feature may be activating *rm
03-01-2011 072200 Fuel System, Gasoline:delivery:hoses, Lines/piping, And Fittings Ford: 2010-2011 taurus there may be an oil leak from the turbocharger oil feed lines or a seal *rm
03-01-2011 092200 Fuel System, Other:delivery:hoses, Lines/piping, And Fittings Ford: 2010-2011 taurus there may be an oil leak from the turbocharger oil feed lines or a seal *rm
03-01-2011 046000 Service Brakes, Air:antilock Ford: if there is an intermittent lack of power, surge, or hesitation while driving the brakes will override acceleration *rm
03-01-2011 061000 Engine And Engine Cooling:engine Ford: if there is an intermittent lack of power, surge, or hesitation while driving the brakes will override acceleration *rm
03-01-2011 100000 Power Train Ford: if there is an intermittent lack of power, surge, or hesitation while driving the brakes will override acceleration *rm
03-01-2011 118000 Electrical System: Software Ford: if there is an intermittent lack of power, surge, or hesitation while driving the brakes will override acceleration *rm
05-27-2013 102000 Power Train:manual Transmission Ford/lincoln: on some vehicles, transmission 5th gear start at stop, speed control drops or inoperative, backup camera on in drive, 5th gear start from stop and transmission slipping or neutral out, due to digital transmission range tr s
06-01-2013 060000 Engine (pws) Ford/lincoln: long block engines shipped with cam sensors, crank sensor, crank sensor tone wheel, coolant inlet tube, the components must be swapped over engine being replaced to replacement engine before engine is installed *pe
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362 (https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362)
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 12:54:00 PM
The TSB kind of popped out @ me! Dunno! Z
It's also a Job 1 as mentioned ^^^
01-01-2011 103100 Power Train:automatic Transmission:control Module (tcm, Pcm) Ford: there may be a loss of power, hesitation, surge, or lack of throttle response while driving the brake over accelerator feature may be activating *rm
03-01-2011 061120 Engine And Engine Cooling:engine:gasoline:turbo-charger Ford: 2010-2011 taurus there may be an oil leak from the turbocharger oil feed lines or a seal *rm
03-01-2011 072200 Fuel System, Gasoline:delivery:hoses, Lines/piping, And Fittings Ford: 2010-2011 taurus there may be an oil leak from the turbocharger oil feed lines or a seal *rm
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362 (https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362)
I saw that ... but kind of ingore it.. the symtpon doesnt see 'right'. Do you think the are referring to the ACC brake feature? i'm not sure that would create the jitter... but disabling the ACC should kill that for a test ?
Aslo ... my ECU part number. it doesn't seem compatible with the any of the replacement units i have found. Thoughts ?
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 12:54:00 PM
There were a few TSB related to the PCM that kind of popped out @ me! Dunno! Z
It's also a Job 1 as mentioned ^^^
07-01-2010 102000 Power Train:manual Transmission Ford/lincoln: transmission built before 6/1/10 with 4th gear start, delay/hesitation on acceleration from a stop-no dtcs this may be caused by a sticking multiplex shift valve in the valve body *pe
07-01-2010 103000 Power Train:automatic Transmission Ford/lincoln: transmission built before 6/1/10 with 4th gear start, delay/hesitation on acceleration from a stop-no dtcs this may be caused by a sticking multiplex shift valve in the valve body *pe
01-01-2011 103100 Power Train:automatic Transmission:control Module (tcm, Pcm) Ford: there may be a loss of power, hesitation, surge, or lack of throttle response while driving the brake over accelerator feature may be activating *rm
https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362 (https://www.vehiclehistory.com/paging-vin-report-data/new-report-wva.php?make=ford&model=taurus&year=2010&vin=1fahp2kt3ag106362)
its possible.
I will tell you this... and I have mentioned it before.... to date, I have not had an SCT based tune regardless of tuner that runs 100% all the time. Torrie flat out couldn't get my fuel pressure under control among other things... BCB damn near blew up my motor with their 2nd revision(going 1.14 lambda in the middle of a boost spike will do that) and then told me that I don't have enough tables for them to work with.... and Brad has spent HOURS working my tunes over to come up with a tune that flat out runs 99% of the time. I still get a stutter in the upper RPMs once in a blue moon....
A lot of those TSB are resolved with a strategy update which you have the latest... so I dunno dude....
I am not sure it's mechanical since it runs fine after a flash....
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I would @ least try to remove the PCM to check for lose or corroded connector's or (water intrusion) to validate address your concern!
FWIW would try to rule out a malfunctioning Fuel system!
BTW How's the oil level? Sorry if this was asked before! Z
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 01, 2018, 01:13:54 PM
I will tell you this... and I have mentioned it before.... to date, I have not had an SCT based tune regardless of tuner that runs 100% all the time. Torrie flat out couldn't get my fuel pressure under control among other things... BCB damn near blew up my motor with their 2nd revision(going 1.14 lambda in the middle of a boost spike will do that) and then told me that I don't have enough tables for them to work with.... and Brad has spent HOURS working my tunes over to come up with a tune that flat out runs 99% of the time. I still get a stutter in the upper RPMs once in a blue moon....
A lot of those TSB are resolved with a strategy update which you have the latest... so I dunno dude....
I am not sure it's mechanical since it runs fine after a flash....
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My only concern 'when it worked' was the tiniest of a flutter at the top end of third. It may have been working... but now that it regressed i wonder if it was really WASN'T working all the way. :P
And i'm on my last purchase. after that i'm hosed :(
i still need to confirm :
-the tranny log i will go and collect today is clear of obvious bad stuff
-installing the new hand built 15-pound tune does not solve to for more than a few days.
then its
-new pcm, but that look like 600$ as the ones used i have seen do not list my PN as a direct replacement.
-livernois, they run lower boost, lower spark but modify cams,wastegate profiles to run high rpm to achieve their stats, MAYBE my version of the platform just doesn't run highboost well.
-buy a new transmission for the TSB's that might in play out of pocket
-return to stock and sell and get a 2011+ with a better damn ECU
FYI
battery us 14.2 + volts under full acceleration
oil is above board
Tranny fluid was *perfect* super duper clear and smelled fine, i added like 1/3 to 1/2 a additional quart anyways.
i will try to do the PCM inspections today if the cowel is easy to remove. i will be on single parent duty until the Mrs. gets home. So if its complicated i will loose bits :P
check list?
pully thingy bob 10$
CRC cleaner
What kind of goo should i be using to slather the connector to prevent corrosion ?
Dielectric grease. I use Permatex, but any good brand should be fine.
Here is the tranny log
15 pound OLD tune
no adaptive reset
generic fuel
there are two back to back runs.
1st one is a downshift from 3rd to 1st, all the way to 4th. it was 'bad' at the end of 2nd and 3rd. but not SUPER DUPER BAD.
2nd one is a full stop, then gas, 3rd was pretty bad at the end .. i will focus looking there.
I have no idea what i am looking at yet :P still looking.
the Adaptive reset is underway. it is unhooked and will be for the next 2+ hours. it should be almost totally cold
then i will idle it with the remote start 2,3 times
then head out from work and do the air-con and then the brake pedal loads then drive it home.
i expect this to fail
after that i will drop the hand rebuilt v2 version of the 15 pound tune, get it to .96 and retest.
Has anyone logged a misfire before? in this new CFG file, it is reporting 1000 misfires. where as in the CFG file i used from AJP i see none. what do other peoples misfires look like? should it not throw a CEL after like 10 in a row or in a short period?
Quote from: TopherSho on February 01, 2018, 03:15:23 PM
Here is the tranny log
15 pound OLD tune
no adaptive reset
generic fuel
there are two back to back runs.
1st one is a downshift from 3rd to 1st, all the way to 4th. it was 'bad' at the end of 2nd and 3rd. but not SUPER DUPER BAD.
2nd one is a full stop, then gas, 3rd was pretty bad at the end .. i will focus looking there.
I have no idea what i am looking at yet :P still looking.
the Adaptive reset is underway. it is unhooked and will be for the next 2+ hours. it should be almost totally cold
then i will idle it with the remote start 2,3 times
then head out from work and do the air-con and then the brake pedal loads then drive it home.
i expect this to fail
after that i will drop the hand rebuilt v2 version of the 15 pound tune, get it to .96 and retest.
Has anyone logged a misfire before? in this new CFG file, it is reporting 1000 misfires. where as in the CFG file i used from AJP i see none. what do other peoples misfires look like? should it not throw a CEL after like 10 in a row or in a short period?
It sounds more like a
P0316 FORD - Misfire Detected On Startup First 1000 Revolutions! Dunno! Z
Read more: https://www.engine-codes.com/p0316_ford.html (https://www.engine-codes.com/p0316_ford.html) Dunno! Z
Read more: https://www.engine-codes.com/p0316_ford.html (https://www.engine-codes.com/p0316_ford.html)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-hMn4hFcmc#)
looking at that description makes me ask if it is applicable? Would that count continue through a 15 minute drive, and then 2 back to back runs?
just making sure.. i was on .28 gapped plugs, with meth.
it is the only spark behavior 'misfire' data point that shows up when i do the livelink ''validate all pids'' function other than 'knock'
If you are thinking misfires, I would have the power balance test run. That may be the best way to figure out that problem. Mode $06 data will tell you misfire counts. Just a thought to tuck away.
As far as a p0316 goes, it could be a burnt exhaust valve,
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8230 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8230)
Or need a new engine entirely.
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8219.msg125345.html#msg125345 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8219.msg125345.html#msg125345)
Quote from: SHOdded on February 01, 2018, 05:34:09 PM
If you are thinking misfires, I would have the power balance test run. That may be the best way to figure out that problem. Mode $06 data will tell you misfire counts. Just a thought to tuck away.
As far as a p0316 goes, it could be a burnt exhaust valve,
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8230 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8230)
Or need a new engine entirely.
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8219.msg125345.html#msg125345 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8219.msg125345.html#msg125345)
My concern is i am not getting any codes... so i have no idea if that is what is happening ? /so confused/
If you had 1000 misfires it would throw a CEL.
Any other max numbers not looking right?
By the way out of the blue yesterday the MKS started shifting hard. Some PT and all WOT.
Had all kinds of issues trying to load multiple config file. (pids stopped working, crazy max numbers)
Updated everything, reloaded tune, hard shifting fixed but the config files are still not working/causing errors on handheld.
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
Agreed with SBS! FWIW you can always find a used PCM on Ebay for fairly cheap which is the (Brain) of the vehicle and just have it programmed @ the Dealer if that's the case!!!
What's your VIN Number? I'm presume it's an earlier build Job 1 ?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0)
Don't mean to thread jack****
Z the cost of the PCM has caught my interest its around $80. Would you know the cost of reprogramming it @ a dealer?
Possible issues with the X4, FoMoCo? Been kinda wary of those devices ever since they were released.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 01, 2018, 05:45:14 PM
If you had 1000 misfires it would throw a CEL.
Any other max numbers not looking right?
By the way out of the blue yesterday the MKS started shifting hard. Some PT and all WOT.
Had all kinds of issues trying to load multiple config file. (pids stopped working, crazy max numbers)
Updated everything, reloaded tune, hard shifting fixed but the config files are still not working/causing errors on handheld.
well i'm off to put the neg cable back on, flash it to the new tune, warm it up and then do the ac \brake dance to get the adaptives done he ford way.
i have little hope for this.
Quote from: SHOdded on February 01, 2018, 05:51:12 PM
Possible issues with the X4, FoMoCo? Been kinda wary of those devices ever since they were released.
Dunno...
I do know that what should have taken 15 minutes (loading config and logging) ended up taking almost two hours due to fighting with my X4 and the software.
With the issues Topher has had the sudden tranny behavior and fix with a flash gave me pause.
Quote from: polskifacet on February 01, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
Agreed with SBS! FWIW you can always find a used PCM on Ebay for fairly cheap which is the (Brain) of the vehicle and just have it programmed @ the Dealer if that's the case!!!
What's your VIN Number? I'm presume it's an earlier build Job 1 ?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0)
Don't mean to thread jack****
Z the cost of the PCM has caught my interest its around $80. Would you know the cost of reprogramming it @ a dealer?
MrsFoMoCoSHO says it should be around $130.00 with tax.
I wonder if SCT released a borked FW upgrade... its been known to happen to anyway hardware company...
Scary cause if that's the case... and the FW mismatch or whatever is causing weird behavior then what's stopping it from causing an issue like causing your AFRs to go wonky?
Maybe hypertech is the way to go? ;-)
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What I don't understand is why the tune revision is different.
I have no preloaded tunes on my device (or are they still there and locked?)
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 01, 2018, 06:32:24 PM
What I don't understand is why the tune revision is different.
I have no preloaded tunes on my device (or are they still there and locked?)
I deleted all the preinstalled tunes pretty much day 1.. as a tech guy i know these things have little rom/ram space so clearing out preloads makes more room for logging longer periods when only on the hand held
I have no idea what is up with my car tbh. i just finished driving home on the adaptive reset and new tune. it feel 'rough' .. im letting it sit for 30 minutes then i will drive it more to start getting the OAR back to .96
Quote from: TopherSho on February 01, 2018, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 01, 2018, 06:32:24 PM
What I don't understand is why the tune revision is different.
I have no preloaded tunes on my device (or are they still there and locked?)
I deleted all the preinstalled tunes pretty much day 1.. as a tech guy i know these things have little rom/ram space so clearing out preloads makes more room for logging longer periods when only on the hand held
I have no idea what is up with my car tbh. i just finished driving home on the adaptive reset and new tune. it feel 'rough' .. im letting it sit for 30 minutes then i will drive it more to start getting the OAR back to .96
You can force OAR by locking in a higher gear and then slowly accelerating till you see -4. Every time you do that you will see OAR increase. I did it in a 5 minute drive off a fresh flash last night. Hit .96 right before I got on highway.
Quote from: polskifacet on February 01, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on February 01, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
Agreed with SBS! FWIW you can always find a used PCM on Ebay for fairly cheap which is the (Brain) of the vehicle and just have it programmed @ the Dealer if that's the case!!!
What's your VIN Number? I'm presume it's an earlier build Job 1 ?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X.TRS0&_nkw=%09BA5Z-12A650-PD&_sacat=0)
Don't mean to thread jack****
Z the cost of the PCM has caught my interest its around $80. Would you know the cost of reprogramming it @ a dealer?
Sorry for the late reply but the Forum appears to be quite slow for some reason! Dunno! But glad FoMoCo came to the rescue! Z :)
^^^^^I do this every time I flash...
You don't have to lock the gear... just get upto speed in 6th gear and press the accelerator until you see then KR dropping to -4 without the car downshifting. Then let up once you hit -4...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 01, 2018, 06:56:19 PM
^^^^^I do this every time I flash...
You don't have to lock the gear... just get upto speed in 6th gear and press the accelerator until you see then KR dropping to -4 without the car downshifting. Then let up once you hit -4...
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I lock the gear so it can't downshift.
Yea... that's more work... Having to shift to M...hit the rinky dinky paddle... then shift back to D.... ain't got time for that...
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I looked at the trans log and I don't normally look at most of the items you logged so I'm not sure they are telling us anything...I thought the misfires you mentioned were a big blip in the log which usually indicates a disruption in the data stream while logging and not a big deal.
But your's were steadily recording misfires, that is the first time I have ever seen that in a log. It's looks legit.
I know you haven't had flywheel or torque converter work. ANd I'm not sure about any driveline work but if something is off in the rotational parts sometimes that can throw off the crank sensor readings...This is a long shot. But using your X4 you can do a "crank relearn procedure" I have never done it with the X4 but that can help with misfires with the ford logic
It's kind of complicated but the crank sensor is expecting to see certain rate of speed depending on conditions and if it doesn't it can record misfires and make the car run rough...You should do the procedure.
Pull plugs and check then, compression test maybe a good thing as well..
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Quote from: AJP turbo on February 02, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
I looked at the trans log and I don't normally look at most of the items you logged so I'm not sure they are telling us anything...I thought the misfires you mentioned were a big blip in the log which usually indicates a disruption in the data stream while logging and not a big deal.
But your's were steadily recording misfires, that is the first time I have ever seen that in a log. It's looks legit.
I know you haven't had flywheel or torque converter work. ANd I'm not sure about any driveline work but if something is off in the rotational parts sometimes that can throw off the crank sensor readings...This is a long shot. But using your X4 you can do a "crank relearn procedure" I have never done it with the X4 but that can help with misfires with the ford logic
It's kind of complicated but the crank sensor is expecting to see certain rate of speed depending on conditions and if it doesn't it can record misfires and make the car run rough...You should do the procedure.
Update : still sputtering .. stalling after applying new update
Can you think of a reason it would NOT log the misfires on the other two CFG files from you and Torrie? that's whats making me all itchy atm .. but i will pull the front three plugs after i get replacement boots.
i may make a new CFg file again and just import a few standard things and see if the misfire is a fluke on THAT cfg file i built. make sure this is not a false flag ..
New question HOW dependent is my tune on the gap being .28 ? I do not expect that my current gap is bad, but i will need to gap the new plugs myself and i suck at it.
I will also do tghe crank relearn, no work has been done in the engine, but i may start hitting it with a sledgehammer in a few more days.
today's experiment will be to load the tank with 50$ of 97 octane. if it get way better the spark plug idea gains a bunch of merrit.
No idea why one config would show misfires....Best thing is to validate all items in livelink so it talks to your car.
The plug gap really shouldn't matter as long as it's close to .030" I used stock plug gaps on my SHO...It's my belief that very early on in the tuning with the Ecoboosts their was little knowledge on the tuning and bad tuning going on and the perceived misfires were a result of improper tuning...Throttle closures and knock made the cars feel like power was being cut. People ran with the idea that plugs were necessary and people that sell plugs loved it as well....The ignition systems are strong in these cars....Now cooler plugs are beneficial.
I don't know that the 97 oct in necessary...You Knock retard is fine
Skip the 97 octane... waste of money... if you are worried about knock turn on your meth injection. That will do just as good as 97 octane.
Make sure you have a feeler gauge as opposed to those crap disc gappers which don't work well. Motorcraft SP-534 come pre gapped at .030. I have gone through 12 of those plugs and every single one was gapped correctly out of the box.
I would inspect your plugs before buying new ones IMHO...
Also pick up some dielectric grease... you can put a small dab of that inside the boot where spark plug goes inside... that will save you later needing new boots every time you replace the plugs...
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Check the Porcelain part of the Spark plugs which are prone to cracking especially on the F-150 platform!
I guess the COP where changed correct? CAC (intercooler) checked ? Z
Ecoboost Misfire Issues Latest Information
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fze1x9GJJ3E#)
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 02, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
No idea why one config would show misfires....Best thing is to validate all items in livelink so it talks to your car.
I don't know that the 97 oct in necessary...You Knock retard is fine
yeah this misfire log is from a config file i created doing just that. i will create a new one with the regular things and re-validate again. you saw weirdness in one of my knock logs so i think i need to make sure it is not a fluke.
Sadly i have no meth. it would be the same amount of money to buy a can so i will try the 97 gas as a standby. I may drive the tank almost dry and get a few gallons less.
Use window washer fluid...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 02, 2018, 01:21:56 PM
Use window washer fluid...
Splash is my preference. If you add 3 bottles of heet it should be 50%.
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 02, 2018, 01:21:56 PM
Use window washer fluid...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought about that .. but i want a abnormally high octane ratio. Then if it stutters at all its not the issue for sure.
Hmm spraying fixes my shitty fuel pressure with 30% so 50% should be ample. you can also use ethanol.
Ethanol: It is not as good as methanol, but it can be used as a 2nd best option if you can't find methanol. It can also be mixed with water up to 50%
I doubt octane is your issue. As AJP stated... your logs didn't have enough knock to cause your problem. It's your money obviously... just trying to save you some trouble.
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So here's the nutty thing .. after hammering on it with 97 octane the issue is there but to a much lesser degree. This is ethanol free 97. I need to drive it more to make sure it's not a fluke
Bought COP boots, and the windshield puller bit. I will examine the pcm this weekend.
I'm going to make a new configure file to double check the Miss fire counter. I'm also going to hunt down the ethonal counter. The lamda/lambse thing looks fine but worth a look
I'm going to pull the front bank of plugs and inspect them .. if there remotely yucky i will pull them all even thought it is such a pain in the ass.
Updates letter ..
That is kinda good, but tells you octane is a bandaid. Was OAR Learned before you put the hammer down?
Check the Engine Ground strap wire for corrosion ! Z
OBD Plugged in?
https://www.scantool.net/forum/index.php?topic=6480.0 (https://www.scantool.net/forum/index.php?topic=6480.0)
PCM FRIED(Well Done)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6556.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6556.0.html)
Ford PCM Software Reflash Procedure + Labor!
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39IaVoc0EHs#)
FYI- The PCM related to your vehicle is Tear Tag YYS2 ! Z
Engine Computer Programmed/Updated 2012 Ford Taurus BA5A-12A650-NC YYS2 3.5L
$217.49
Tear Tag is the four Digit Code pertaining to your Module Build Data (AS-BUILT)
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/AsBuilt/Details (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/AsBuilt/Details)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2012-Ford-Taurus-BA5A-12A650-NC-YYS2-3-5L/362155475105?fits=Year%3A2012%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=24009197205&hash=item54522600a1:g:NUAAAOSw9idaBhAy&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2012-Ford-Taurus-BA5A-12A650-NC-YYS2-3-5L/362155475105?fits=Year%3A2012%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=24009197205&hash=item54522600a1:g:NUAAAOSw9idaBhAy&vxp=mtr)
If anyone is interested in finding the exact fit module pertaining to your specific vehicle just go under https://www.motorcraftservice.com/ (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/) and then click under Free Resources and click QUICK GUIDES and Scroll down the page to MODULE BUILD DATA(AS BUILT)USING YOUR VIN NUMBER TO OBTAIN AS-Built Data! Z :)
13-SHO PCM MODULE would be TEAR TAG GWR1
(https://i.imgur.com/CjrgaPkh.jpg?2)
Great info can be found under Free resources. Z
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/ (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGdGXj6tHQ#)
That's a great link!
I have my tuner in my hand. i did the pid validation again .. built a copy pf brads log. added missfires.
I am afraid to look really. if its not misfires i have to make a 600$ guess on option-a or option-b and live with the results :P
I mean... I wonder if the LMS tuner I have will work on yours. They require the SWPN so I am not sure if their tunes are tied to that AND the strategy...
I would honestly revert back to stock, drive it for awhile, and see if the issue persists. If it goes away, and you are interested to see if the LMS tune is a better fit, then I will ask them if you can use mine to verify...
Assuming that option A for $600 was to try LMS...
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Quote from: ZSHO on February 02, 2018, 06:28:37 PM
FYI- The PCM related to your vehicle is Tear Tag YYS2 ! Z
Engine Computer Programmed/Updated 2012 Ford Taurus BA5A-12A650-NC YYS2 3.5L
$217.49
Tear Tag is the four Digit Code pertaining to your Module Build Data (AS-BUILT)
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/AsBuilt/Details (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/AsBuilt/Details)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2012-Ford-Taurus-BA5A-12A650-NC-YYS2-3-5L/362155475105?fits=Year%3A2012%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=24009197205&hash=item54522600a1:g:NUAAAOSw9idaBhAy&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2012-Ford-Taurus-BA5A-12A650-NC-YYS2-3-5L/362155475105?fits=Year%3A2012%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=24009197205&hash=item54522600a1:g:NUAAAOSw9idaBhAy&vxp=mtr)
? i plugged in my VIN and it came up different. ?
Module Build Data (As-Built)
VIN 1FAHP2KT3AG106362
Tear Tag DJC5
Vehicle Data 1DF2 FFFF FF0C
No misfires. the tranny log with misfires was a bad reading. and it was a classic bad run. end of third was choppy stutterer and full of random power drops.
well s***.
-gamble on a ECU as the last money i can spend
-gamble on livernois as the last money i can spend
-save 600$ and go stock and sell it in 9 months.
i'm off for the night. time to drink a few round and get away from this mess.
Thank you for the offer SBS. I will consider it. I am going to go back to stock and drive it for a few days. Lets see if the issue stays 'gone' for that longer time frame.
Here's the exact PCM you need! so best of luck and think we all need a Drink! LOL. :beer2: Z
Inspect the PCM for leaks,corrosion on harness connector and proceed from there! Z
Engine Computer Programmed/Updated 2010 Ford Taurus AA5A-12A650-DF DJC5 3.5L
PCM--DJC5 - $217.49 + Free Shipping!
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/ (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2010-Ford-Taurus-AA5A-12A650-DF-DJC5-3-5L/352206668311?fits=Year%3A2010%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=18009197536&hash=item5201274217:g:Eo8AAOSwsYpaBhIV&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2010-Ford-Taurus-AA5A-12A650-DF-DJC5-3-5L/352206668311?fits=Year%3A2010%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=18009197536&hash=item5201274217:g:Eo8AAOSwsYpaBhIV&vxp=mtr)
I still think he needs to run that stock tune for a bit.... but talk about persistence Z!!!!! Guys like ZSHO are the reason this forum is the best one out there. Remind me to buy you a drink (even if it's lemon polar) when I see you at Cecil this coming season.
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I find it coincidental that the OP issues started right AFTER Having the windshield replaced! Dunno :hmmm: Bad Seal perhaps! water intrusion inside the PCM!
TOL since your on your last limb that's all! Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8568.90.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8568.90.html)
I am going to run a few test runs today. I am back on stock. i will probably have time to pull open the cowl today and pull the ecu plugs.
I had no idea the pcu is literally in the ''rain trough exposed to the weather at all times.'' .. what a genuinely stupid place to put it. I can SEE the ecu plugs with the hood up.. it must be soaking wet, cold constantly.
Quote from: ZSHO on February 02, 2018, 09:01:49 PM
Here's the exact PCM you need! so best of luck and think we all need a Drink! LOL. :beer2: Z
Inspect the PCM for leaks,corrosion on harness connector and proceed from there! Z
Engine Computer Programmed/Updated 2010 Ford Taurus AA5A-12A650-DF DJC5 3.5L
PCM--DJC5 - $217.49 + Free Shipping!
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/ (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2010-Ford-Taurus-AA5A-12A650-DF-DJC5-3-5L/352206668311?fits=Year%3A2010%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=18009197536&hash=item5201274217:g:Eo8AAOSwsYpaBhIV&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Computer-Programmed-Updated-2010-Ford-Taurus-AA5A-12A650-DF-DJC5-3-5L/352206668311?fits=Year%3A2010%7CMake%3AFord%7CModel%3ATaurus%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A3.5L&epid=18009197536&hash=item5201274217:g:Eo8AAOSwsYpaBhIV&vxp=mtr)
Thank you sir.
Quote from: ZSHO on February 03, 2018, 09:49:22 AM
I find it coincidental that the OP issues started right AFTER Having the windshield replaced! Dunno :hmmm: Bad Seal perhaps! water intrusion inside the PCM!
TOL since your on your last limb that's all! Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8568.90.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8568.90.html)
Anything is possible.. I need to complete my runs today stock and see if I feel anything. the problem I am concerned with is in stock the system may not be 'stressed enough' to show the behavior which puts me back into buying random parts.
I am about 98% the Stock tune is not having the issue.
made 3 runs today well into 4th gear
1 run from last night (but not all the way through 3rd.)
I am not feeling it at all. any anything i did feel is probably super crazy tinhat placebo at this point.
I did not datalog it. I didn't have it with me.
I cannot imagine this is ECU related. it only seems to occur in higher performance modes, it should be a issue at all times..
I cannot think is is spark related either, rpms are rpms. if the spark was an issue it would be across the board at 6200 rpm
I cannot think it is ground related either, same thing, it would be a issue at all times.
it is not fuel related. i ran 96+ octane with only slightly better results
I do not think it is knock/timing related.. knock sensor is working and at 96 octane we did not see any issues.
I do not think it is .. Fuel pressure is fine and always has been.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?Could be valves under much higher cylinder pressure?
?Could be something else non engine internal is not tolerating 15 pounds of boost.?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I cant explain the jitter on the logs, it FEELS like a dramatic drop in power. then it spikes back. ?the wastegates are dumping rapidly? then closing off? maybe that IS the cause of the jitter.. this makes me want to run a high performance LOW boost tune.
@AJP Have you ever built a High performance 13-pound tune? The hand held on stock never shows more than 11 pounds.. i'm and curious what happens when someone builds a low boost high spark timing tune.
Sure have we can try
Would that be working around the problem? Lots of guys on here running 14+ PSI tunes without an issue.. not trying to be negative Nancy...
Maybe developing a mildly aggressive tune targeting 13psi to see maybe if its the tune parameters? dunno.. curious to see what happens.
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 03:35:59 PM
Would that be working around the problem? Lots of guys on here running 14+ PSI tunes without an issue.. not trying to be negative Nancy...
Maybe developing a mildly aggressive tune targeting 13psi to see maybe if its the tune parameters? dunno.. curious to see what happens.
I agree that there are tons of others on the same firmware and platform, but I am out of ideas besides really bad ones like valves. And I have already replaced tons of hoses, the solenoid, fixed the overboost issue.
If it is a physical issue i'm lost...
I had boost to spare and still do, so its not a 'loss of boost', the wastegates are not 100% closed or open.. its not overboosting..
/flumoxxed/
EDIT :: which puts me back to carrying forward some form of corruption on the SCT tuner. sigh. My last thought is maybe i will put rev-11 on. Rev11 was a really *EARLY* good tune before I got aggressive with shift points, tq-management etc.
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 05, 2018, 03:32:59 PM
Sure have we can try
Let's do it. 92 octane pump gas, 13 pounds. Can I ask a HUGE favor? Lets build it from
scratch and not based on modifying any of my previous files?
I remember that around revision 13 we had some crazy issues with TQ management until we went clean-sheet on a tune. Since the handheld is updated maybe this can help..
for S&G's I went back to build 11 of the tune.. ancient. Much less pronounced, but still occurs... as soon as we get off of 15 pounds the issue drops in severity greatly.
What Oil should i be running.. ? I have been letting FORD replace the oil.
i know you may have covered this previously in the thread but did you pull all plugs and inspect? time to re-gap or replace maybe?
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If it was my car I'd be running 5w-30 even though you have a 2010 since oil pressure is a function of viscosity and you are probably getting the oil warm enough to make 5w-30 have a low enough viscosity to yield proper pressure..
I thought you were going to look at the ecu connectors? I'm kind of curious about that...and if you felt like spending money I'd love to see that replaced altogether
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 05, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
If it was my car I'd be running 5w-30 even though you have a 2010 since oil pressure is a function of viscosity and you are probably getting the oil warm enough to make 5w-30 have a low enough viscosity to yield proper pressure..
I thought you were going to look at the ecu connectors? I'm kind of curious about that...and if you felt like spending money I'd love to see that replaced altogether
Curious if replacing the ECU would yield a new strategy? Admittedly I don't know enough in how the PCMs play into it.
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Not yet, but with 0 misfires, and the issue not occurring under stock makes me think they are fine. There less than 10k miles old and less than 5k on meth
I will probably look at the front bank for giggles.. if they are hideously bad I will look at the rear bank
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 08:44:18 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 05, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
If it was my car I'd be running 5w-30 even though you have a 2010 since oil pressure is a function of viscosity and you are probably getting the oil warm enough to make 5w-30 have a low enough viscosity to yield proper pressure..
I thought you were going to look at the ecu connectors? I'm kind of curious about that...and if you felt like spending money I'd love to see that replaced altogether
Curious if replacing the ECU would yield a new strategy? Admittedly I don't know enough in how the PCMs play into it.
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Well funny thing the ecu that z listed before had the original 4 digit tear sticker that shows in the tune when I open it for his and your old strategies...so I suspect once you install that ecu and the mechanic does the PMI or programmable module installation with ids it automatically updates it and you end up with the current calibrations which both of you run now
The reason I can't see it being tune related is I've looked over his tune compared to stock at least 5 times and have rebuilt it from ground up and I originally think his file was derived from steal blues since they were identical so it's easy for me to grab the items that I would universally apply and then tweak from that
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 05, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
If it was my car I'd be running 5w-30 even though you have a 2010 since oil pressure is a function of viscosity and you are probably getting the oil warm enough to make 5w-30 have a low enough viscosity to yield proper pressure..
I thought you were going to look at the ecu connectors? I'm kind of curious about that...and if you felt like spending money I'd love to see that replaced altogether
I will .. just being lazy and not convinced the ecu is the issue.. if it had been just as bad stock as on the full 15 pounds I would yanked it out already
Ya know... I wonder if your car is doing the same thing in 1st and 2nd but because the gears are shorter you don't notice it...
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 09:13:53 PM
Ya know... I wonder if your car is doing the same thing in 1st and 2nd but because the gears are shorter you don't notice it...
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On the 15 pound tune 2nd gear can be pretty bad.. it's worse in third since it is there for so long.
What else would act like a misfire.. but not register as a misfire or knock? EDIT: and not show up as a torque source error
Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 09:13:53 PM
Ya know... I wonder if your car is doing the same thing in 1st and 2nd but because the gears are shorter you don't notice it...
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On the 15 pound tune 2nd gear can be pretty bad.. it's worse in third since it is there for so long.
What else would act like a misfire.. but not register as a misfire or knock?
T/C and/or ESC intervention
Electrical interference (Maybe log MAP/o2/FRP sensor voltage) Have you logged PCM voltage?
Failing sensor not quite below DTC threshold
Throttle Body (Does your "foot connection" feel the same when its occurring?) Do revs raise and fall as anticipated with foot movement?
Torque converter
Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 09:13:53 PM
Ya know... I wonder if your car is doing the same thing in 1st and 2nd but because the gears are shorter you don't notice it...
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On the 15 pound tune 2nd gear can be pretty bad.. it's worse in third since it is there for so long.
What else would act like a misfire.. but not register as a misfire or knock? EDIT: and not show up as a torque source error
Exactly. Possibly spark blow-out. It would make sense since you experience the issue a lot more with higher boost levels. I've had spark blowout on previous platforms and had zero misfires register. Granted i'm not exactly sure how the ECU on a SHO would read a blowout occurrence and if it would read as a misfire or not.
What plugs did you install last and at what gap?
It's so quick and easy to check i would scratch it off the list.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 05, 2018, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 05, 2018, 09:13:53 PM
Ya know... I wonder if your car is doing the same thing in 1st and 2nd but because the gears are shorter you don't notice it...
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On the 15 pound tune 2nd gear can be pretty bad.. it's worse in third since it is there for so long.
What else would act like a misfire.. but not register as a misfire or knock? EDIT: and not show up as a torque source error
Exactly. Possibly spark blow-out. It would make sense since you experience the issue a lot more with higher boost levels. I've had spark blowout on previous platforms and had zero misfires register. Granted i'm not exactly sure how the ECU on a SHO would read a blowout occurrence and if it would read as a misfire or not.
What plugs did you install last and at what gap?
It's so quick and easy to check i would scratch it off the list.
NGK .28 gap 10k old, 5k on meth.. they are a pain in the ass for the back three.
Front 3 are easy as pie and at least you'll have some idea where the gap stands.
The NGK's do tend to spread the gap pretty quickly and at 10k with a lot of WOT i'd be checking them as routine maintenance.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 05, 2018, 10:11:21 PM
Front 3 are easy as pie and at least you'll have some idea where the gap stands.
The NGK's do tend to spread the gap pretty quickly and at 10k with a lot of WOT i'd be checking them as routine maintenance.
In all seriousness.. what would spark blowout read as? Would not the ingnition on compression read as knock? And if no detonation occurs would there not be a code or misfire??
Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 10:22:24 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 05, 2018, 10:11:21 PM
Front 3 are easy as pie and at least you'll have some idea where the gap stands.
The NGK's do tend to spread the gap pretty quickly and at 10k with a lot of WOT i'd be checking them as routine maintenance.
In all seriousness.. what would spark blowout read as? Would not the ingnition on compression read as knock? And if no detonation occurs would there not be a code or misfire??
It MIGHT read as a misfire in our application. I just don't know. Maybe Brad can comment on that.
There is no ignition when spark blowout occurs though so it wouldn't read as knock. When cylinder pressure(boost) gets too high the spark isn't strong enough to jump the gap. Irregular fuel(or meth) mixtures can compound the issue as well so you've got all the ingredients for the issue.
Not saying i'm 100% sure this is the issue but i would hate to see you've gone through all this when it could have been fixed by something as simple as changing your plugs.
I did have bad wastegates and one cracked turbine :) .. 'dem puppies were were done.
It is a tough call. Plugs will be 80$ local .. I hate waiting.. it will take almost a 100$ out of my remaining budget.
What about the coils themselves. what if one ore more are outputting out weak voltages .. ? what is the lifespan on those little guys ?
Gah ... 75$ each on Rockauto ... thats ... special.
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 12:29:38 AM
I did have bad wastegates and one cracked turbine :) .. 'dem puppies were were done.
It is a tough call. Plugs will be 80$ local .. I hate waiting.. it will take almost a 100$ out of my remaining budget.
What about the coils themselves. what if one ore more are outputting out weak voltages .. ? what is the lifespan on those little guys ?
Gah ... 75$ each on Rockauto ... thats ... special.
OK say I entertain the replacement of plugs.. based on everyone's comments it seems NGK is not a good choice ?
what brand am i buying after i see the ECU connectors are fine ?
Coils rarely, rarely fail in Ecoboost applications. More likely the boot will fail first. As far as plugs, people routinely run the SP534s at stock gap (0.030) without issue.
i highly recommend SP542's. same heat range as the NGK's except they're made to run more boost and a smaller gap. they come pre gapped at .030 and are $6ea at oreilly.
they will hold the gap for much longer
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I run sp534... never had a plug issue... I have gone through two sets...
I'm am over paranoid with my maintenance so most other people would still be on their first set :-)
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^ Thats a good thing SBS! not saying he 534 is a bad option but they're made to run a .044 gap
id rather run a plug that's designed to run a small gap like we need and won't spread out as much over time.
542s also seem to be cheaper and require a lot less adjustment of the gap before installing.
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 06, 2018, 07:51:18 AM
^ Thats a good thing SBS! not saying he 534 is a bad option but they're made to run a .044 gap
id rather run a plug that's designed to run a small gap like we need and won't spread out as much over time.
542s also seem to be cheaper and require a lot less adjustment of the gap before installing.
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The SP-534 come pregapped from the factory at .030....
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My mistake it must be the NGKs that come with the larger gap?
so as it stands the 542's are one heat range cooler than the 534s.
both viable options
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 06, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 06, 2018, 07:51:18 AM
^ Thats a good thing SBS! not saying he 534 is a bad option but they're made to run a .044 gap
id rather run a plug that's designed to run a small gap like we need and won't spread out as much over time.
542s also seem to be cheaper and require a lot less adjustment of the gap before installing.
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The SP-534 come pregapped from the factory at .030....
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I assume these are colder plugs than stock?
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 06, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 06, 2018, 07:51:18 AM
^ Thats a good thing SBS! not saying he 534 is a bad option but they're made to run a .044 gap
id rather run a plug that's designed to run a small gap like we need and won't spread out as much over time.
542s also seem to be cheaper and require a lot less adjustment of the gap before installing.
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The SP-534 come pregapped from the factory at .030....
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I assume these are colder plugs than stock?
IIRC the 534 is the stock heat range, the 542s are one range cooler.
yeah 534 is stock for 13+ and 542s are one step colder
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That confuses me. SBS runs higher boost than me, would he not be on colder plugs?
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 12:26:48 PM
That confuses me. SBS runs higher boost than me, would he not be on colder plugs?
Why would he have to be?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/d4ca7fee0754aea4935040833fa93509.jpg)
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 06, 2018, 12:34:17 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/d4ca7fee0754aea4935040833fa93509.jpg)
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omg ... ok that's funny
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 06, 2018, 12:28:35 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 12:26:48 PM
That confuses me. SBS runs higher boost than me, would he not be on colder plugs?
Why would he have to be?
Ok more confusion.. did that change? I SWEAR it has been beaten into me i needed colder plugs to offset pre-ignition ...
So really serious what plugs should i be on for a non-meth 15 or 14.5 pound tune? i am so confused ..
Really, no need to spend so much time on so minor an item. Put in sp534 plugs. Done.
Spark plugs are a supporting mod just like downpipes, filters, exhaust and so on....Are they essential, no.
Yes some people and companies would have you believe they are essential...Colder plugs help extract heat from the combustion chamber which may help in reduce preignition....Higher octane fuel is the best means to help with that condition.
I ran the dog crap out of my SHO and had 22k on the stock plugs with countless 20 psi runs on 93 octane fuel....
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 06, 2018, 01:06:34 PM
Spark plugs are a supporting mod just like downpipes, filters, exhaust and so on....Are they essential, no.
Yes some people and companies would have you believe they are essential...Colder plugs help extract heat from the combustion chamber which may help in reduce preignition....Higher octane fuel is the best means to help with that condition.
I ran the dog crap out of my SHO and had 22k on the stock plugs with countless 20 psi runs on 93 octane fuel....
ok, well then i will replace the plugs after looking at the connectors to the ECU.
AJP, what would a blowout look like to you on the logs? anything at all ?
Any special tools needed to remove the cowl to inspect the water logged exposed to air rain mud snow washer fluid pressure washers ECU?
*stupidest place for a ECU*
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 01:39:24 PM
Any special tools needed to remove the cowl to inspect the water logged exposed to air rain mud snow washer fluid pressure washers ECU?
*stupidest place for a ECU*
To be 100% fair here.. I only know of one thread where someone had an ECU go bad...
Quote from: TopherSho on February 06, 2018, 01:39:24 PM
Any special tools needed to remove the cowl to inspect the water logged exposed to air rain mud snow washer fluid pressure washers ECU?
*stupidest place for a ECU*
You need a wiper arm puller.
I just did the front three plugs.. pictures incoming .. but they are not good. i will check the ecu .. but not before i do the back three. there done.
gap really spread out? i had a hunch
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Here are the front 3. Top is left front cylinder, then middle is middle cylinder and bottom is right cylinder.
Note the hideous carbon baked into the insulator. these plugs were running too cold.
I did not check the gap. I will when i get home .. but with this thick of carbon i'm shocked it has not been misfiring bad enough to log it.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27654418_10155360599217685_6902004558827793339_n.jpg?oh=2e0b24ebd9d8d77fdd1d406e43994bca&oe=5B18B1D2)
any oil consumption issues?
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 06, 2018, 05:07:38 PM
any oil consumption issues?
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-0- holds the same OIL level on the stick for the entire time in the block. it only has 51k miles on it.
Silly website but all of them(them being sites) agree when your plug is carbon fouled...
http://www.dummies.com/home-garden/car-repair/how-to-assess-trouble-by-checking-your-spark-plugs/ (http://www.dummies.com/home-garden/car-repair/how-to-assess-trouble-by-checking-your-spark-plugs/)
Carbon-fouled plug Black, dry, fluffy soot on insulator tip and electrodes. Overly rich fuel/air mixture, dirty air filter, too much
driving at low speeds, or idling for a long time. Switch to "hotter" plug. (The higher the plug number,
the hotter the plug.)
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 06, 2018, 06:07:12 PM
Silly website but all of them(them being sites) agree when your plug is carbon fouled...
http://www.dummies.com/home-garden/car-repair/how-to-assess-trouble-by-checking-your-spark-plugs/ (http://www.dummies.com/home-garden/car-repair/how-to-assess-trouble-by-checking-your-spark-plugs/)
Carbon-fouled plug Black, dry, fluffy soot on insulator tip and electrodes. Overly rich fuel/air mixture, dirty air filter, too much
driving at low speeds, or idling for a long time. Switch to "hotter" plug. (The higher the plug number,
the hotter the plug.)
im about 30 minutes away from doing the back three. then a few test runs after driving around to adjust it.
When is the last time you cleaned your air filter? Might be worth while to check if its clogged...
FYI: Once plugs are in... you should never need to adjust them.. Gap them right the first time...
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 06, 2018, 06:09:45 PM
When is the last time you cleaned your air filter? Might be worth while to check if its clogged...
FYI: Once plugs are in... you should never need to adjust them.. Gap them right the first time...
I took your route ,, i just made sure they were .30 factory and installed them!
No runs though, i am single parenting atm ..
so you just re-gapped your existing plugs? happen to measure them before you reduced the gap?
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 06, 2018, 10:03:19 PM
so you just re-gapped your existing plugs? happen to measure them before you reduced the gap?
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sorry for the confusion i grabbed the new ones, made sure they were gapped correctly out of the box and installed them.
crossing my fingers for an easy resolution then!
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x2!
unable to make a run of any significance.. but the accelerations and hard downshifts felt just like i remember them being pre-meth. no jinxing .. more to test tomorrow.
If all the plugs were carbon fouled I would suspect that would be impacting overall engine performance...
Hoping you the best!
Still curious how all the plugs got fouled....
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There is a post here *somewhere* that described a clear intake manifold used to test meth kits to see where the meth ended up when sprayed like for kits like mine. (single nozzel high output spray). As it turns out more meth typically ends up in one bank versus another due to swirling under heavy spray where not all of it evaps..
*As a crackpot theory* one bank is running much cooler than the other. And the step colder plugs prevented self cleaning/high temp insulator burn off and the combo == my front back of sadness after just 10k miles.
in my case the front banks were extra carbon cripsy .. and not good like a nice steak carbon. the backs were much cleaner.. but also fouled to a degree worth replacing.
Back bank,,, not nearly as bad as the front. but bad enough to warrant replacement as they were only going to get worse with time.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27658006_10155362053432685_8595417446962280465_n.jpg?oh=4ab0cff9d6d34bafdc4c53c9638f7c8d&oe=5B19BA9F)
They look wet?
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 09:49:56 AM
They look wet?
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Not wet, but glazed and shiny! yeah bad things were going on with those plugs.. I also used a flash on the phone.
Did you take a pic how the other 3 looked?
In this post
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8819.msg133079.html#msg133079 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8819.msg133079.html#msg133079)
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 07, 2018, 10:26:35 AM
Did you take a pic how the other 3 looked?
Back bank
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27658006_10155362053432685_8595417446962280465_n.jpg?oh=4ab0cff9d6d34bafdc4c53c9638f7c8d&oe=5B19BA9F)
Front bank
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27654418_10155360599217685_6902004558827793339_n.jpg?oh=2e0b24ebd9d8d77fdd1d406e43994bca&oe=5B18B1D2)
It is now my opinion, if you live in colder climates, such as PNW where it is colder more than warmer. Standard heat range may be a strong recommendation.
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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**If** my test drive goes well today, and i feel it is fixed I will tell you in another 3 months after hooking the meth back up and enabling it.
:P
EDIT:: Luckily it seems the front three plugs are better indicators. So that's an easy 10 minutes to peep and look.
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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I can't see that being the case...I just looked at his STFT's while spraying and he was between .80-.90 which is what I usually like and is WAY less than I have seen many other Meth tunes run from other people....I've seen many other NON AJP tunes where the stft's are maxxed out at .75 and flat lined meaning the ECU couldn't even pull as much fuel as needed to maintain Lambse
So I would say he was only spraying a moderate amount of meth so he wasn't running overly rich....It's strange I guess
Quote from: TopherSho on February 07, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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**If** my test drive goes well today, and i feel it is fixed I will tell you in another 3 months after hooking the meth back up and enabling it.
:P
EDIT:: Luckily it seems the front three plugs are better indicators. So that's an easy 10 minutes to peep and look.
What is really busting my balls is **IF** this fixes the last issue,
is that resetting the ECU temporally fixes the spark issue. It must be a learning thing AFTER the fact because i made damn sure OAR was .96 yet for the 1st couple power cycles it felt almost normal with only a 20% flutter at the end of 3rd.
but we are still on a hopefull **IF** .. so, t-minus 2 hours to test drive where i can run into 4th under load.
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 07, 2018, 11:43:49 AM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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I can't see that being the case...I just looked at his STFT's while spraying and he was between .80-.90 which is what I usually like and is WAY less than I have seen many other Meth tunes run from other people....I've seen many other NON AJP tunes where the stft's are maxxed out at .75 and flat lined meaning the ECU couldn't even pull as much fuel as needed to maintain Lambse
So I would say he was only spraying a moderate amount of meth so he wasn't running overly rich....It's strange I guess
In regard ONLY to the fouling, I am convinced the environment I live in with colder plugs causes the dirty\bad plug condition.
Quote from: TopherSho on February 07, 2018, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on February 07, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 07, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Could it be a byproduct of spraying too much?
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**If** my test drive goes well today, and i feel it is fixed I will tell you in another 3 months after hooking the meth back up and enabling it.
:P
EDIT:: Luckily it seems the front three plugs are better indicators. So that's an easy 10 minutes to peep and look.
What is really busting my balls is **IF** this fixes the last issue, is that resetting the ECU temporally fixes the spark issue.
It must be a learning thing AFTER the fact because i made damn sure OAR was .96 yet for the 1st couple power cycles it felt almost normal with only a 20% flutter at the end of 3rd.
but we are still on a hopefull **IF** .. so, t-minus 2 hours to test drive where i can run into 4th under load.
So even after changing the plugs you are still getting fluttering?
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QuoteSo even after changing the plugs you are still getting fluttering?
No idea.. in the limited testing last night it felt like it did in the early days before meth. It ran hard and shifted like it wanted to break my spine... so i am hopeful.
But I have not made a
hard run into 4th gear yet. we are t-minus 95 minutes for that... with that i will have a final verdict.
THAT CRAP IS DONE SON. FIXED WITH F&&KING AATHORRRATEEEAA~
recap
:bad wastegates, blew them up race night.
:cracked turbine that we did not know about until we replaced the turbos
:bad tubro that looked a darker ulgy color for the turbine metal(cracked unit)
:bad plugs after 10k miles on .28 gapped NGKs (that i have NOT checked the gap on yet.. but will tonight)
likely did not need to replace the Boost solenoid .. but @ 300$ out of 3000$ it is a big MEH.
I have no doubts on this. before there was the tiniest flutter after clearing the ecu and applying as tune. this time no clear, no tunes was applied and it ate the turf like a champ. no flutter of ANY kind. smooth as butter.
I will data log it later to look for log jitter but my expectation is there wont be any..
Take-away :: if you have log jitter and random quick spikes of power and power loss. it is your DAMN PLUGS.
F%%kcing done.
Let us hope so. LOL.
This time I'm pretty damn convinced.. :) So convinced I will drop in the 15 pound tune and test, it then hook the meth up, then test that... and then move back to the meth build.
great to hear! def report back on the gap of your old plugs and keep an eye on them. hopefully issues don't persist.
i would be surprised if the plug fouling was caused by just one step colder plugs on a tuned SHO in ANY climate but who knows. i've always used 1 step colder plugs and never had any fouling in CO.
wonder if meth is cooling the cylinders enough to cause the fouling.
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Still fixed!! Meth is turned back on... on a non-meth tune still
Still working! Driving it hard.
The plug gap was normal on both banks. it was just the amount of baked in glazed carbon.. way too cold.
If you have not replaced the pcv valve/separator, would consider that as preventive maintenance, along with a CAC check/clean.
Glad its fixed, please tell me you added an extra zero to the boost solenoid cost though. Its a $30 part, and a 5 minute swap, if you take half the time to drink a beer.
Still, glad the car is back as it should be!
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2010,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1445050,exhaust+&+emission,pcv+(positive+crankcase+ventilation)+valve,5052 (http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2010,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1445050,exhaust+&+emission,pcv+(positive+crankcase+ventilation)+valve,5052)
This ?
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27867158_10155364720297685_7440091105569211037_n.jpg?oh=fb88eb97ab4c5b1f7289b29617b53f79&oe=5B16B88B)
Quote from: derfdog15 on February 08, 2018, 09:34:42 AM
Glad its fixed, please tell me you added an extra zero to the boost solenoid cost though. Its a $30 part, and a 5 minute swap, if you take half the time to drink a beer.
Still, glad the car is back as it should be!
no ford charged 300 for the deal.. but i also made them replace all the damn hoses under the hood on all the secondary systems as well.
The TSB specifies these parts
AA5Z-6A666-D PCV Valve
AA5Z-6A785-F Crankcase Vent Oil Separator
So the motorcraft pcv valve you listed should be perfect. I don't see the CVOS listed on their site tho?
https://parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com/oem-parts/ford-separator-aa5z6a785f/
https://parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com/oem-parts/ford-pcv-valve-aa5z6a666d/
Is that the little bugger on the top rear passenger cylinder head?
aannddd... CVOS?
crankcase vent oil separator
and yes, rear valve cover, pass strut tower side. pcv valve sits atop the separator.
(https://i.imgur.com/ODxffh9h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TkCfw5sh.jpg?1)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)
Quote from: SHOdded on February 08, 2018, 10:32:32 AM
crankcase vent oil separator
and yes, rear valve cover, pass strut tower side. pcv valve sits atop the separator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)
Thought so! thank ye good sir!
This is the solenoid I was referencing, https://www.1aauto.com/turbocharger-bypass-valve-solenoid-ford-oem-bl3z-9k378-a/i/fdzmx00010 (https://www.1aauto.com/turbocharger-bypass-valve-solenoid-ford-oem-bl3z-9k378-a/i/fdzmx00010)
I'm guessing they charged an hour or two of labor, or the hose prices are higher than DIY hoses, because they're probably specific motorcraft parts.
Quote from: derfdog15 on February 08, 2018, 11:03:04 AM
This is the solenoid I was referencing, https://www.1aauto.com/turbocharger-bypass-valve-solenoid-ford-oem-bl3z-9k378-a/i/fdzmx00010 (https://www.1aauto.com/turbocharger-bypass-valve-solenoid-ford-oem-bl3z-9k378-a/i/fdzmx00010)
I'm guessing they charged an hour or two of labor, or the hose prices are higher than DIY hoses, because they're probably specific motorcraft parts.
Yeah, they charged a bunch for labor after i made them validate hoses and replace all the hoses that came of that, and a bunch of the secondary hoses.
Ultimately the full bill as around 3000$ out of pocket with about 1500-ish in warranty coverage. in total without the warranty i'd be out of pocket 4500$. keep in mind that includes a control arm, and a slew of rusted bolts and things ..
Making these cars fast is easy,
*however I am the very definition of the cautionary tale.* if you are not able to do most your own work, fixing things that break after tuning can be VERY expensive.
Lol.... "$40 Race plus whatever parts you break." Is the general cost of taking cars to the track..
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 08, 2018, 11:56:35 AM
Lol.... "$40 Race plus whatever parts you break." Is the general cost of taking cars to the track..
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Yes indeed! I knew that going in as i was an avid tuned/modded g35 racer. :P Turbos however make that ''broke-it cost'' a lot more than people take the time to consider...
My frustration with this was the complete LACK of tech understanding with FORD. I had to explain everything they needed to troubleshoot and everything they needed to fix. it was ludacris ..
Oh man..... forum police strike again....
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Oh well ... no roads to Mexico here ... LOL
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 08, 2018, 12:32:47 PM
Oh man..... forum police strike again....
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!!???
Update : Still fully functional .. replaced wastegates for the overboost and 1 blown turbo, Plugs for the stutter.
Going to set it back up for the 15 pound tune tonight. I cannot run full meth as the shittastic SNOW kit is leaking at the elbow they sold me... and they no longer carry the damn thing. A bit pissed. i found one from a third party vendor, i will have to buy it.
Quote from: TopherSho on February 11, 2018, 11:08:24 PM
Update : Still fully functional .. replaced wastegates for the overboost and 1 blown turbo, Plugs for the stutter.
Going to set it back up for the 15 pound tune tonight. I cannot run full meth as the shittastic SNOW kit is leaking at the elbow they sold me... and they no longer carry the damn thing. A bit pissed. i found one from a third party vendor, i will have to buy it.
Might be worth calling Julio over at Alky.... Kit has been flawless since install....
Glad things are working well none the less!
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Quote from: stealbluesho on February 11, 2018, 11:10:44 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on February 11, 2018, 11:08:24 PM
Update : Still fully functional .. replaced wastegates for the overboost and 1 blown turbo, Plugs for the stutter.
Going to set it back up for the 15 pound tune tonight. I cannot run full meth as the shittastic SNOW kit is leaking at the elbow they sold me... and they no longer carry the damn thing. A bit pissed. i found one from a third party vendor, i will have to buy it.
Might be worth calling Julio over at Alky.... Kit has been flawless since install....
Glad things are working well none the less!
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I probably will. I need to switch over to full braided.. which will require a new pump, lines, check-valve and elbow.
probably last update : Still working with 35% meth spray on a non-meth 15 pound tune.
Nice. But that "last update" has an ominous ring to it lol.
Quote from: SHOdded on February 23, 2018, 10:38:35 AM
Nice. But that "last update" has an ominous ring to it lol.
Meh do not read to much into it.. just means this thread is very nearly closed. :)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/d753ba471cc84b3f55dd47ba27d581d5.jpg)
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LOL. NO. NEVER. NEVER SAY DIE. WE ARE BONDED, YOU AND I.
lol ... one more post
Topher, I think you hold the record for the most expensive set of spark plugs ever, lol....
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 24, 2018, 01:07:14 PM
Topher, I think you hold the record for the most expensive set of spark plugs ever, lol....
/snort/ bad wastegate, blown and cracked turbo, fouled plugs, bad control arm. yeah .. this is a bit more than i wanted to spend on a DD-racer .. BUT thems the risk with altering a boosted ride.
I do not like it..
but I do no regret it .. :)
Topher, your pics seem to be missing from this thread? I guess they got cleaned up ...