Originally posted by Kolk1
Anybody wire up a switch so you can manually turn the fans on? I am..
#1
06-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Ok, Ive found the wires, and tested everything, and it all works, just havent put it all together yet. Just wondering if anybody else has, and how they did it.
Im basically adding a relay and switch to just the passenger side fan thats directly in front of the motor, the other fan is more under the air filter, I could do both fans, but 1 fan moves a lot of air.
Just wondering if anybody has done it, and how you did it.
Tags: None
06-05-2013, 03:17 PM
Switch is just temporarily setup inside the engine bay, considering this would normally be used at the track while waiting in the staging lanes, I see no problem with it for now.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/Kolk1/4CD85D6C-0CD1-429C-913D-E0693F47FA2B-126-00000000ECEF9204.mp4 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/Kolk1/4CD85D6C-0CD1-429C-913D-E0693F47FA2B-126-00000000ECEF9204.mp4)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/Kolk1/th_4CD85D6C-0CD1-429C-913D-E0693F47FA2B-126-00000000ECEF9204.jpg)
06-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Yea I took a couple of pictures. It is a little different than normal though. There are 2 wires going to the actual fan, not the module. Green is positive and black is ground. You actually need to hook up a relay to add a high current ground. Basically instead of having a high current positive input into the relay, you need to hook it up to high current negative(battery ground) then just hook up the out put of the relay to the black negative wire of the fan.
06-11-2013, 11:09 PM
Correct, it will help cool the coolant that is in the radiator, and will help keep the heat moving out of your engine bay, so it will help stop the motor from heat soaking. If you are slowly moving up in line at a track, you will start the engine for 10-15 seconds to move forward, then turn the car off again, during that time the cooler fluid will be pushed into in engine.
When you look down at your fan module, there are 3 plugs total, 1 large (input) and 2 outputs(1 for each fan). Unplug the top large input plug, and then you will be able to get to the plug directly under it which is for the passenger side radiator fan.
That plug has 2 wires. Black, and Green. This is a negative triggered circuit, so you need to add a heavy gauge wire(I used a 12gauge wire) to the Black wire on the plug.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/Kolk1/null-23.jpg)
Thats the only factory connection you need to get. The rest is adding a relay, and a switch, which I just hooked up straight to the battery.
On a normal 5 wire relay, you will need to use 4 of the wire.
Heavy gauge ground from the battery, to pin 30, I used 12gauge.
Heavy gauge ground from the Fan to pin 87, 12gauge again.
Light gauge ground wire for pin 85. Very thin gauge, maybe 18 or 20.
Light gauge wire 12V Constant, to your switch input, then your switch output to Pin 86, again 18-20 gauge.
Last edited by Kolk1; 06-11-2013, 11:11 PM.
Little update, I did move the switch inside the cabin for easier access. Still haven't really used it for any reason though. lol
I know I need to clean the car, the wifes been driving it for the last couple months, and I just got it back. We bought her a matching Tuxedo Black 2014 Focus Hatchback, titanium model with every option. :D
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/Kolk1/86646126-6D21-41B6-9EFC-4D37D5B55F64.jpg)
Thinking about trying this soon. Would this relay in any way interfere with the normal operation of the fans when the key is on? Electronics is not my strong suit.
Also interested in this.. it sounds like it would not be safe to run with the engine on.
This is where i get stuck ::
Thats the only factory connection you need to get. The rest is adding a relay, and a switch, which I just hooked up straight to the battery.
Do you mean "the only factory connection you need to get access to?
On a normal 5 wire relay, you will need to use 4 of the wire.
Got this, there are 5 places to plug into. they are labeled as such : (http://www.xenocron.com/install/FuelPumpRelay_files/image004.jpg)
Ok i get the routing of the cables here for the HEAVY guage negative wires...
Heavy gauge ground from the battery, to pin 30, I used 12gauge.
splice in a negative 12-gauge wire to pin 30 from the negative battery clamp. -- check got it
Heavy gauge ground from the Fan to pin 87, 12gauge again.
integrate a 12-gauge negative from the two-pin passenger fan harness to pin-87 of the 5 wire relay. -- check got it.
Light gauge ground wire for pin 85. Very thin gauge, maybe 18 or 20.
This one i mostly get, are we saying attach a 18-guage wire to pin 85 to a generic ground not shared by other grounds? (IE frame)
This one i do not get.. can you elaborate ?
Light gauge wire 12V Constant, to your switch input, then your switch output to Pin 86, again 18-20 gauge.
Any comments/pointers Kolk1? are you saying attach a 12v source (battery?) to one side of a single pole small switch, then from the other side of the single pole switch to pin 86? that makes sense but i need to confirm as i am TERRIBLE with electrons ..
Also since this is a negative ground to ?close the circut? and power the fan, would it be safe to have on with the vehicle also in the run position?
Quote from: TopherSho on June 01, 2017, 05:35:32 PM
This is where i get stuck ::
Thats the only factory connection you need to get. The rest is adding a relay, and a switch, which I just hooked up straight to the battery.
Do you mean "the only factory connection you need to get access to?
On a normal 5 wire relay, you will need to use 4 of the wire.
Got this, there are 5 places to plug into. they are labeled as such : (http://www.xenocron.com/install/FuelPumpRelay_files/image004.jpg)
Ok i get the routing of the cables here for the HEAVY guage negative wires...
Heavy gauge ground from the battery, to pin 30, I used 12gauge.
splice in a negative 12-gauge wire to pin 30 from the negative battery clamp. -- check got it
Heavy gauge ground from the Fan to pin 87, 12gauge again.
integrate a 12-gauge negative from the two-pin passenger fan harness to pin-87 of the 5 wire relay. -- check got it.
Light gauge ground wire for pin 85. Very thin gauge, maybe 18 or 20.
This one i mostly get, are we saying attach a 18-guage wire to pin 85 to a generic ground not shared by other grounds? (IE frame)
This one i do not get.. can you elaborate ?
Light gauge wire 12V Constant, to your switch input, then your switch output to Pin 86, again 18-20 gauge.
Any comments/pointers Kolk1? are you saying attach a 12v source (battery?) to one side of a single pole small switch, then from the other side of the single pole switch to pin 86? that makes sense but i need to confirm as i am TERRIBLE with electrons ..
Also since this is a negative ground to ?close the circut? and power the fan, would it be safe to have on with the vehicle also in the run position?
Looking at it and here are some of the basics on the relays. They are just a switch really, much like the light switch in your house, but they are activated electronically. Normally they are used in a situation to carry high amp load as most push button, toggle or manual dash mounted switches are not designed to carry high current.
- Pins 85 & 86 are your trigger or signal wires. If 85 is to ground and you put 12V to 86, it activates the relay. they take very little current to activate the switch, so only need light guage wire. His descripstion was taking you from battery, to the light guage dash switch, then to the relay pin 86.
- 30, 87a and 87 are what you are controlling with 85&86 above.
- 30 pin is the "source" or what you want to connect to your item to. In this case for the fans it sounds like it is to ground.
- 87a and 87 are what you want to connect to 30. if 85&86 are not connect, then 30 by default is connected to 87A. once you trip 85&86 then the relay activates and 30 is then connected to 87
I hope that helps. Once I get home tonight I will try to draw up (scary so do not expect much) how I see the circuit for this working.
OK, I can't draw, but my search came up with this..
This drawing is for a more classic, temp activated automatic fan setup. like something you would see in a muscle car, or older carburated vehicle. The polarity is different than how we are setting up, as they traditionally put the relay on the positive leg. This drawing is nice as it shows the internal action of the relay, and that 30/87a/87 are completely of independent of 85/86.
Basically the relay toggles between connecting 30 to 87a and 30 to 87. 85 and 86 are what tell it to switch.
This is how I see wiring up the relay. I do not think there is an issue having the two grounds to the relay be common to each other, just make sure they go do a good constant ground source like the chassis or (-) terminal on the battery. I would probably locate the relay close to the battery for simplicity, then you just run a light guage pair to the dash for the switch and then a single heavy gauge to the fan harness. I am going to work on finding connectors to see if can make a plug and play solution without having to cut/splice/tap the fan harness.
Quote from: lamrith on June 01, 2017, 08:45:23 PM
OK, I can't draw, but my search came up with this..
This drawing is for a more classic, temp activated automatic fan setup. like something you would see in a muscle car, or older carburated vehicle. The polarity is different than how we are setting up, as they traditionally put the relay on the positive leg. This drawing is nice as it shows the internal action of the relay, and that 30/87a/87 are completely of independent of 85/86.
Basically the relay toggles between connecting 30 to 87a and 30 to 87. 85 and 86 are what tell it to switch.
This is how I see wiring up the relay. I do not think there is an issue having the two grounds to the relay be common to each other, just make sure they go do a good constant ground source like the chassis or (-) terminal on the battery. I would probably locate the relay close to the battery for simplicity, then you just run a light guage pair to the dash for the switch and then a single heavy gauge to the fan harness. I am going to work on finding connectors to see if can make a plug and play solution without having to cut/splice/tap the fan harness.
Logically makes 100% sense.. but it makes wee come out a bit doing it. I think I will wait see your success ;)
Topher- i performed this installation just recently. Honestly my understanding of each relay pin function wasn't 100% but i still found the installation pretty easy. Don't be intimidated. I drew out a diagram following Kolk1's explanation pin by pin and the picture became a lot more clear. I'd be happy to take some pics to show exactly how i did it and where i ran the wires etc.
. . if you wouldn't mind, shoot me a pm in the AM and i can try and get that done if i've got a few minutes. I've been meaning to update this thread with pics anyway.
here's my super sophisticated drawing that i followed during installation LOL(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170602/aed6399f11dbdb319c3031d274aed293.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on June 02, 2017, 12:23:44 AM
here's my super sophisticated drawing that i followed during installation LOL(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170602/aed6399f11dbdb319c3031d274aed293.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah so you have done it! Details! How well does it to drop temps say in your driveway over time (IE in a drag strip line)? that is my #1 use.. if it works well i will go for it!
And what kind of relay did you use/buy? i am not sure of the amperage that will traverse the relay and need to over buy for my sanity.
QuoteAh so you have done it! Details! How well does it to drop temps say in your driveway over time (IE in a drag strip line)? that is my #1 use.. if it works well i will go for it!
And what kind of relay did you use/buy? i am not sure of the amperage that will traverse the relay and need to over buy for my sanity.
I wouldn't say it was a night and day difference with how it affects temps. And to be clear . . . this will NOT drop your IAT2 temps. It's just not possible for a fan to cool off air inside your manifold when it's sitting their soaking up heat from the heads and block. There's literally nowhere for the hot air to go at that point because your throttle is closed as well.
This mod CAN keep your coolant temps down slightly and help evacuate some hot air under the hood(i haven't tried removing the rear hood seal yet). I followed suit of the OP and only wired into 1 fan. I haven't used this at the track yet but i do use it on hotter days sitting in traffic. You can see the coolant temps stabilize sitting at a light rather than rise like the normally would when the fan switch is on. Eventually your coolant will get up to normal temps and the other fan will still cycle on/off though . . it's just inevitable. One fan can only do so much.
So this mod didn't have life changing effects and won't do you any wonders at the drag strip but it sure as hell won't hurt and i would recommend it. I really like having the option on the hotter days. I'll post more pics later this morning.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on June 02, 2017, 09:25:36 AM
QuoteAh so you have done it! Details! How well does it to drop temps say in your driveway over time (IE in a drag strip line)? that is my #1 use.. if it works well i will go for it!
And what kind of relay did you use/buy? i am not sure of the amperage that will traverse the relay and need to over buy for my sanity.
I wouldn't say it was a night and day difference with how it affects temps. And to be clear . . . this will NOT drop your IAT2 temps. It's just not possible for a fan to cool off air inside your manifold when it's sitting their soaking up heat from the heads and block. There's literally nowhere for the hot air to go at that point because your throttle is closed as well.
This mod CAN keep your coolant temps down slightly and help evacuate some hot air under the hood(i haven't tried removing the rear hood seal yet). I followed suit of the OP and only wired into 1 fan. I haven't used this at the track yet but i do use it on hotter days sitting in traffic. You can see the coolant temps stabilize sitting at a light rather than rise like the normally would when the fan switch is on. Eventually your coolant will get up to normal temps and the other fan will still cycle on/off though . . it's just inevitable. One fan can only do so much.
So this mod didn't have life changing effects and won't do you any wonders at the drag strip but it sure as hell won't hurt and i would recommend it. I really like having the option on the hotter days. I'll post more pics later this morning.
Dang .. I was hoping with the hood up and engine off to remove enough heat from the block to start dropping IAT2 as well. well s***... and i know insulating the intake and charge pipe only slow the heat soak so thats out too.
well #$%^ .. meth ..
the only real non-modification option to drop IAT is old school ice, or a high speed fan + mister pointing downward onto the engine bay. Neither of witch PIR will tolerate.
well crap. It is time to test the 14-lbs boots setting again. And see if reduced boost helps with reduced heat and keeps more timing up top.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on June 02, 2017, 09:25:36 AM
I wouldn't say it was a night and day difference with how it affects temps. And to be clear . . . this will NOT drop your IAT2 temps. It's just not possible for a fan to cool off air inside your manifold when it's sitting their soaking up heat from the heads and block. There's literally nowhere for the hot air to go at that point because your throttle is closed as well.
This mod CAN keep your coolant temps down slightly and help evacuate some hot air under the hood(i haven't tried removing the rear hood seal yet). I followed suit of the OP and only wired into 1 fan. I haven't used this at the track yet but i do use it on hotter days sitting in traffic. You can see the coolant temps stabilize sitting at a light rather than rise like the normally would when the fan switch is on. Eventually your coolant will get up to normal temps and the other fan will still cycle on/off though . . it's just inevitable. One fan can only do so much.
So this mod didn't have life changing effects and won't do you any wonders at the drag strip but it sure as hell won't hurt and i would recommend it. I really like having the option on the hotter days. I'll post more pics later this morning.
I bolded that as it is a key point and something I noticed driving my car recently. 68/69* degrees the last 2 days. sitting in traffic my car was 122*+ IAT. Accellerate and it dropped to ~100. if I stayed steady throttle to maintain speed the temps stayed there. If I let off pedal to coast it would immediately start to climb, and not in relation to vehicle speed. Coasting down hill with same mph and temps would rise back up because there was just not enough air moving...
That said air moving with fan like this is a benefit, even it if only cools the coolant in the radiator and the rad/IC housings that is a net +. Jut have to be careful and not drain battery!
ok so took some pics of how i wired my switch.
once again my artistic rendering of the schematic
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/3caf0541abdf8cd7268cc848fe223b52.jpg)
Fan to relay: pin 87(yellow wire)using t tap connector
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/6fb32afd54b358b3f463ab103a970d38.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/05fcdb35fc6190063ea426bbdb81d167.jpg)
next is pin 30(blue wire)to battery ground. you don't have to connect it to the negative battery terminal.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/e67d28755b504e3a6300ddc47a6ee4ad.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/61159fc5e3fc218f5a5e67127b023548.jpg)
then pin 85(white wire)to any solid ground. i used the one right above the battery ground.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/8941fa76640c79260f49a13b524b9558.jpg)
then pin 86 (black wire) to your power switch. (in the car if you want a switch in the cabin).
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/635b691607fe945e89bdae256f85312a.jpg)
i removed the wiper arms and cowl piece and ran the wires through the boot behind there. these were the best pics i could get showing where i ran the wire
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/0f138e50c0374683d2eb26aed28898b1.jpg)
you then need to run the other terminal of your fan switch to a constant 12v source. i used the fuse panel in the driver side footwell and just pressed the wire from the fan switch in with the fuse
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/cd6f305ceb96509877a5a251dc78311c.jpg)
then just ground your switch(and wire light if equipped) and you should be able to test the switch to make sure everything functions.
here's the switch while ON
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/f04a2efc4ac06394387909dbe39579fb.jpg)
hope this helps anybody that's on the fence about installation. overall i'm very happy i decided to do this
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
any chance of larger pix ? this still interests me .. but it also terrifies me. and what kind of relay did you use ?
Quote from: TopherSho on June 08, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
any chance of larger pix ? this still interests me .. but it also terrifies me. and what kind of relay did you use ?
sure. pics of what specifically? this is the relay i used
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00009WC2Q/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
. . any standard 30/40amp relay will work. overall the install was pretty damn easy. hardest part is running the wires into the cabin
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on June 08, 2017, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on June 08, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
any chance of larger pix ? this still interests me .. but it also terrifies me. and what kind of relay did you use ?
sure. pics of what specifically? this is the relay i used
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00009WC2Q/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00009WC2Q/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
. . any standard 30/40amp relay will work. overall the install was pretty damn easy. hardest part is running the wires into the cabin
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All of them ;) I was curious about how you made the attachments / connections / splicing
wanted to update this thread with a little experiment i did today. i've had the manual fan switch for 1 fan in the cabin but preparing for track day coming up i wanted to be able to run both fans with the car off. so i tapped the 2nd fan and soldered on a terminal clip so i can clamp it on the - battery terminal in the staging lanes. pic below
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/725733547e5dcb8b9991795c8827d689.jpg)
ill unplug it completely for anything but track days. here's the experiment drove the car in 70* weather and turned it off and let it heat soak. here's the IAT2 coolant temps before i turned on the fans on
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/f8ab2b7c22b3f148fefb216f98a49b41.jpg)
7 minutes after running the fans w/hood open in my garage
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/32e8755f61e8fc1c7056fdc331ce3990.jpg)
15 minutes with fans on:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171001/f7c55ace047a25369bbe9b6be7ba84e9.jpg)
battery voltage dropped to 11.6 so i started the car(with no struggle) and iat dropped a little more after 15 seconds running.
so. . 31* drop in IAT2 after running the fans with hood open and car off. ill take it!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not bad at all. Simple mod too.
Quote from: TopherSho on June 08, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
any chance of larger pix ? this still interests me .. but it also terrifies me. and what kind of relay did you use ?
To see larger pics, if using desktop, simply right click on the pic and open in new tab or window. On a mobile device, keep your finger pressed on the image until the option to open in new tab comes up. The original pic is quite large.
I may look into this, I struggle with these high iats also!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Has anyone confirmed this mod doesn't cause issues with the engine on?
While in the staging lanes the fans would still stay on full blast while turning on and off the engine.
I don't know about whether the mod causes issues with the engine on... but I do want to know how you set up the tuner to display those specific gauges. When I select gauges/datalog and put it in that layout that shows 8 items, its a bunch of stuff I don't care about while driving. I didn't know you could change which 8 it shows. I'd love to have it show IAT2, wastegate, boost, etc.
Yall might want look at the wiring diagram for the cooling fans. On my 13PP fuse F70 supplies power to the control side of the three cooling fan relays and is hot in start or run. the only thing that needs to be done is manipulate the grounds at the PCM connector. For my year it is pins 34 for the low cooling fan relay and pin 18 for the high cooling fan. Seems it would be easier to just run wires from the PCM connector under the cowl and run it in the inside than have all those wires under the hood. Just my $.02