Ecoboost Performance Forum

Finally got my tuner and tunes from Livernois yesterday. I installed the 93 3-bar v10 tune. In the email from Anthony he mentioned "We have also found the cold air intake you have to lose some power when compared to our stage 1 package with the windstorm cold air." I'm using the updated MDesign CAI the "lined with 3M™ heat reflection lining on the interior of the carbon fiber heat shield to further prevent heatsoak and a newer, larger high-flow inner air filter for even more power." You guys think there is some truth behind what Anthony said? I'm thinking if there is some truth behind it, it is probably a negligible amount of power loss or might be referring to the older version of the MDesign with the smaller filter

Hard to say which version of the MDesign CAI he was referring to, but regardless, the differences, if any, will only be relevant at high boost, high rpm.  If you want to change anything, change the downpipes and clear the bottleneck to better power.

Unless there is a dyno with said claim I would take it with a grain of salt.

Mdesign is the best looking of the bunch IMHO and any gains are going to be negligible in a 4500LB car.

Is the thought process that LMS bought an MDesign intake, and then tested it?  I give LMS all the credit, they deserve it; but I'm skeptical.

Really didn't think it would make much of a difference. Was just curious if any of you guys had any insight about this. Next up on my list are PPE catted downpipes and Magnaflow cat-back

Should all add up to a nice improvement in power & sound.

Quote from: BoostedSHO on June 01, 2016, 11:05:55 AM
Finally got my tuner and tunes from Livernois yesterday. I installed the 93 3-bar v10 tune. In the email from Anthony he mentioned "We have also found the cold air intake you have to lose some power when compared to our stage 1 package with the windstorm cold air." I'm using the updated MDesign CAI the "lined with 3M™ heat reflection lining on the interior of the carbon fiber heat shield to further prevent heatsoak and a newer, larger high-flow inner air filter for even more power." You guys think there is some truth behind what Anthony said? I'm thinking if there is some truth behind it, it is probably a negligible amount of power loss or might be referring to the older version of the MDesign with the smaller filter

We have actually tested the other brand against our Windstorm here on the AWD chassis dyno awhile back.   We have posted the results showing this as well on more than one occasion.  Please see the links below.

http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/ (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476)

Anthony @ LMS

Any back to back tests on the Windstorm/Airaid at the track vs stock intake? Myself and others lost .2 and 2MPH with that intake.
Love to see testing like I did, hot lapping with stock intake then switch to Windstorm/Airaid then back. I did it 3 times and each time saw .2 and 2MPH loss with the aftermarket intake on a hot car.

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on June 01, 2016, 04:02:33 PM
Any back to back tests on the Windstorm/Airaid at the track vs stock intake? Myself and others lost .2 and 2MPH with that intake.
Love to see testing like I did, hot lapping with stock intake then switch to Windstorm/Airaid then back. I did it 3 times and each time saw .2 and 2MPH loss with the aftermarket intake on a hot car.

Actually there were consecutive testing that was done, and it was actually done by a forum member not us. If you read through those threads you will see that the stock, MDesign and Windstorm were all tested on the same car, same track and same day. The Windstorm has been shown to be the best option on the dyno, and proven to be quicker in the 1/4 on the same vehicle, same day and same track!

(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/Livernois_Detroit/Curtis%20Haley%20SHO_zpsfb3ebgmu.png)

Hey Anthony, have you tested yours against the K&N? Mere curiosity as I figure its probably the worst of the bunch but I own one and am curious. I'd be willing to ship it to you to test.

No luck finding the track comparison LMS/Airaid intake vs stock. Anybody have a link?

I think he may be referring  to Rich's track comparison, one of the 3 links above

http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/ (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476)

Quote from: SHOdded on June 01, 2016, 05:35:39 PM
I think he may be referring  to Rich's track comparison, one of the 3 links above

http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/ (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?posts/1427025/)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/#post-1448299)
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/cold-air-intake-really-worth-it.131911/page-3#post-1450476)

I am not going to make any comment regarding the CAI's on this platform as I do not have any direct knowledge.  I will only share some drag racing knowledge...

1. A very slight change in weather condition between runs could have a greater impact on the times than any of the intake changes.  I would guess that the temperature was dropping as it became later.
2. Using a hp/ET calculator (I realize they are for fun only and provide limited data) shows that the difference in hp from the best pass to the worst was a 2.5 hp difference.
3. Even at our cars, shall we say portly, race weight, a 10-12 hp increase will net a .1 or so drop in ET.

I keep editing to add, but everyone should get the idea.  I should also note that mph is more indicative of hp than ET.  However, wheel spin and other factors play a roll in the mph as well.  Note that the fastest pass had the worst 60' time.  Makes me wonder if he had more wheel spin which can equate to a higher mph.

Overall, I applaud the OP for providing the data and going through the work to swap intakes at the track.  That is really awesome.  It's just too bad that he wasn't able to get 3 or so passes on each set up to get an average.

In no way am I saying which intake is best or whether one should buy an intake.  Only providing some basic info.

Both CAI intakes trapped 110mph in the quarter mile.... What am I missing? drop in did 109.5...

If anything the MD breathes better in the upper range pulling in more air. It was down about .5mph at the 1000ft mark and end up only being down .2 mph

Quote from: BoostedSHO on June 01, 2016, 11:05:55 AM
Finally got my tuner and tunes from Livernois yesterday. I installed the 93 3-bar v10 tune. In the email from Anthony he mentioned "We have also found the cold air intake you have to lose some power when compared to our stage 1 package with the windstorm cold air." I'm using the updated MDesign CAI the "lined with 3M™ heat reflection lining on the interior of the carbon fiber heat shield to further prevent heatsoak and a newer, larger high-flow inner air filter for even more power." You guys think there is some truth behind what Anthony said? I'm thinking if there is some truth behind it, it is probably a negligible amount of power loss or might be referring to the older version of the MDesign with the smaller filter

Well I'm shocked - SHOCKED - that someone who wants to sell you something is badmouthing something he has for sale that you bought from another vendor.

I was not trying to badmouth anyone's products in any way, just simply answered his questions with facts.  Our customer had simply asked me for estimated power numbers his car should be making with the current mods and our tuning.  I told him what another SHO with a similar combination of mods and tuning would gain here on the dyno and that with the intake he was using it has proven to make less power on the dyno.  He asked for the facts and I gave him my personal opinion of estimated power gains using our combo. 

This was the correct thing to do in my opinion so that the customer was aware of the results we've documented in the past.  Many clients end up putting their vehicle's on the dyno to see how much power they make, and we always prefer to be honest with them about how there combos compare when asked. 

Keep it classy

I just want to make it clear that in no way do I feel Livernois was badmouthing another product or trying to shame me into buying something from them. I simply asked a question and Anthony answered that question with that data that he had. Thanks again for all the help Anthony and the quick responses to the emails   

I'm going to agree with BoostedSHO.

Boosted SHO engaged LME on the topic.

Livernois is a for profit business so it's natural for Anthony to support the products/packages that they sell.

"We have also found the cold air intake you have to lose some power when compared to our stage 1 package with the windstorm cold air."

He put up a dyno slip that supports his contention, nothing disingenuous IMO.

Lol... That's all I am saying.....


Sent from my iPhone

Windstorm is rebadged air raid right?

I could help clarify some of the misconceptions.

As Anthony said awhile, while back Livernois received a customer who had our first generation intake system (smaller filter, different filter design, no heat shielding) which they used to test against their intake on their dyno and then reported back that our intake lost horsepower.

From another unbiased, third-party testing done by a member of this forum who is located in a different state than us and used a dyno shop that we are disconnected from, we had seen gains going from an AirRaid/Windstorm to an MDesign first generation intake in horsepower and torque. These are our unbiased facts.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4034.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4034.0.html)

Both of the testing above were done with our first generation intake systems, we have also had our first generation intake system tested at the track which fell within .01 second of the Windstorm and the OEM intake systems in the 1/4 mile.

For quite some time we have been receiving Livernois customers who have been told that our intake is inferior to the Windstorm/AirRaid though it is never mentioned that they are comparing to our first generation, discontinued model and we are on our fourth generation. It is also not mentioned that the Windstorm/AirRaid only won over the MDesign intake system on the Livernois dyno, in their own shop, while we have unbiased third-party data. This is why we only post data that we receive from clients who perform these dyno testing at unbiased and disconnected interest shops across the nation.

Quote from: AJP turbo on June 03, 2016, 07:00:21 PM
Windstorm is rebadged air raid right?

Correct

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on June 04, 2016, 11:34:43 AM

Quote from: AJP turbo on June 03, 2016, 07:00:21 PM
Windstorm is rebadged air raid right?

Correct

I did some pics peeping last night and it looks like the filter itself is different. 

I thought I read that the tube they use was a little different but I was unable to confirm via pics.

Specifically I compared Airaid/Roush/Windstorm.

in my opinion, less space for air equals less power. it just seems that M has to work harder to get that air in the engine, because it is so small.

Quote from: CroR1 on June 04, 2016, 12:21:27 PM
in my opinion, less space for air equals less power. it just seems that M has to work harder to get that air in the engine, because it is so small.

The OEM intake filter element is significantly smaller than most aftermarket intake systems, also smaller in volume than our own filter. An oversized filter is not always best for power especially when prone to heat soak, this is why the OEM system is efficient with the flat panel filter.

Our system is a direct ram-air design also therefore the engine in fact breathes easier, especially in real world moving conditions verses on a dyno.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 04, 2016, 11:45:03 AM

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on June 04, 2016, 11:34:43 AM

Quote from: AJP turbo on June 03, 2016, 07:00:21 PM
Windstorm is rebadged air raid right?

Correct

I did some pics peeping last night and it looks like the filter itself is different. 

I thought I read that the tube they use was a little different but I was unable to confirm via pics.

Specifically I compared Airaid/Roush/Windstorm.

I saw the boxes sitting at Airaid, a friend of mine for the past 20+ years used to own the company until he sold to K&N. :)

Quote from: MDesign Performance on June 04, 2016, 04:15:20 AM
I could help clarify some of the misconceptions.

As Anthony said awhile, while back Livernois received a customer who had our first generation intake system (smaller filter, different filter design, no heat shielding) which they used to test against their intake on their dyno and then reported back that our intake lost horsepower.

From another unbiased, third-party testing done by a member of this forum who is located in a different state than us and used a dyno shop that we are disconnected from, we had seen gains going from an AirRaid/Windstorm to an MDesign first generation intake in horsepower and torque. These are our unbiased facts.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4034.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4034.0.html)

Both of the testing above were done with our first generation intake systems, we have also had our first generation intake system tested at the track which fell within .01 second of the Windstorm and the OEM intake systems in the 1/4 mile.

For quite some time we have been receiving Livernois customers who have been told that our intake is inferior to the Windstorm/AirRaid though it is never mentioned that they are comparing to our first generation, discontinued model and we are on our fourth generation. It is also not mentioned that the Windstorm/AirRaid only won over the MDesign intake system on the Livernois dyno, in their own shop, while we have unbiased third-party data. This is why we only post data that we receive from clients who perform these dyno testing at unbiased and disconnected interest shops across the nation.

Can I get a link to your 4th gen intake? I might snatch one soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Quote from: ElvenSho on June 04, 2016, 02:22:27 PMCan I get a link to your 4th gen intake? I might snatch one soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Hey ElvenSho, follow this link below!

http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake (http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake)

Quote from: MDesign Performance on June 04, 2016, 03:52:40 PM

Quote from: ElvenSho on June 04, 2016, 02:22:27 PMCan I get a link to your 4th gen intake? I might snatch one soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Hey ElvenSho, follow this link below!

http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake (http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake)

when did the 4th gen come out? I have one of your intakes. it's not that old.....4-5 months at most. hoping I have the latest and greatest! I have no plans to change it. just curious.

Can I put a dry charger wrap on the Mdesign filter? Has airaid improved their sealing or is there an easy way of sealing the box? Thicker weatherstriping?

Quote from: metroplex on November 19, 2016, 07:35:48 AM
Can I put a dry charger wrap on the Mdesign filter? Has airaid improved their sealing or is there an easy way of sealing the box? Thicker weatherstriping?

Here is my updated Airaid seal which is much taller and provides a better overall seal,pics below for comparison and make sure its facing outwards upon install,or a cheaper option would be to get a one inch pipe insulation from home depot..Z   (http://i.imgur.com/vn1fBRvh.png)

Quote from: MDesign Performance on June 04, 2016, 03:52:40 PM

Quote from: ElvenSho on June 04, 2016, 02:22:27 PMCan I get a link to your 4th gen intake? I might snatch one soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Hey ElvenSho, follow this link below!

http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake (http://www.mdesignperformance.com/shop/2010-fordlincoln-35l-ecoboost-sho-flex-mks-mkt-explorer-sport-mdesign-performance-carbon-cold-air-intake)

I missed the fall sale

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Quote from: metroplex on November 19, 2016, 07:35:48 AM
Can I put a dry charger wrap on the Mdesign filter? Has airaid improved their sealing or is there an easy way of sealing the box? Thicker weatherstriping?

I didn't think the air raid needed any improvement...I had the air raid and the original shorter weather stripping and had a perfect impression of the seal on the underhood lining. So in my mind it was drawing air from the same source as the stock airbox which was outside.

So the Airaid is good for up to 10 hp?