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Stock turbo efficiency..?

Started by StinkinLinkin13, March 19, 2020, 09:59:17 PM

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StinkinLinkin13

Ok. Hate to be this guy. I'm sure its been discussed before. But how much boost can the stock turbos deliver efficiently... I know ATP is the upgrade option but my turbos are new and I have no plans on upgrading anytime soon. So where these stockers gonna max out?
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

SHOdded

IIRC, 16-18 psi is the "hot zone" for these tiny turbos.  They have been driven to 23-24 psi during spikes, but ...
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Gjkrisa

Do we know airflow numbers for any of these turbos?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

2016 Taurus SHO pp Shadow Black
diy emblems,jms boost max, FORscan modder

802SHO

Don't forget, GearHead is the other upgrade option.  You can see how efficient they are by datalogging your wastegates duty cycle %.  If you're @ 19 psi and WGDC is 100% they're maxed. 
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

802SHO

Matt Robinson shared flow data a while back of stock turbos vs his upgraded ones.
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

StinkinLinkin13

Just recently got back into this issue. So if I'm doing a 3rd gear pull... How much psi should I be able to hold max with healthy stock turbos. 16 - 18 psi?
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

Jordan

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on April 11, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Just recently got back into this issue. So if I'm doing a 3rd gear pull... How much psi should I be able to hold max with healthy stock turbos. 16 - 18 psi?

My experience commanding 18 psi was like this... It'll boost spike to the commanded then taper through the gear sometimes touching into high 14s. These little baby turbos just can't keep up that well in the high boost. Anything after 15psi from my experience is going to taper to some degree
World's Fastest SHO Ecoboost July 2019 - Current

2020 Power Numbers - 536AWHP/647Torque

StinkinLinkin13

#7
Ok... It just seems like Brad expects to see more than that hold... So I figured they could hold higher. Idk. I'm chasing a possible boost leak. I have one new turbo... One at 55k... I checked them both today and they seemed very similar as far as in and out plus up and down play and rotational drag. If its not one thing its another... 🤦‍♂️

Edit: Anyone familiar with boost datalogs chime in. Frustration level is high...

"Purple is the wastegate duty cycle and green is boost. You see boost dropping and wastegate duty taking off trying maintain boost...If the wastegate duty skyrockets but boost holds at least you are making commanded boost but yours is a double whammy. Your duty cycle is taking off so the turbos are speeding up and STILL losing boost. You are barely at 15 psi at 5500rpm and up, that is way less than target."
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

SM105K

Mine peak at 17.5 psi and then taper down to 13.5 to 14 psi. I have no boost leaks. Brad thinks I have worn out turbos, because of the boost taper and high waste gate duty cycle. They have 76k miles on them.
"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

StinkinLinkin13

Quote from: SM105K on April 11, 2020, 11:13:46 PM
Mine peak at 17.5 psi and then taper down to 13.5 to 14 psi. I have no boost leaks. Brad thinks I have worn out turbos, because of the boost taper and high waste gate duty cycle. They have 76k miles on them.

Added edit... I'm doing better than that boost wise but it seems it should be holding even higher...
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

SuperPete

#10
I am in the same boat, been chasing leak/boost issue for last few weeks.
I have GH Intercooler
PPE Catted Downpipes
XDI Fuel pump
GH Tuned E40 and 93 tunes, many revisions back and forth with Matt.
My boost Command is 18PSI and it holds there for half of the RPM and than it starts to drop and I sendup at 12-13PSI by my 6K RPM with WG at 100% closed
5500RPM is where my PSI and WG cross, WG goes up PSI comes down.

I troubleshooted for ever, did multiple system pressure tests, you can find them in my videos:  https://youtu.be/awUptqYTFVw
Did not find pressure leak, I replaced all clamps on my pipes low and high side, I retighten all bolts, checked blowoff valves few times, replaced boost controller,  removed all pipes and inspected, I completely removed intake filter and ran without it, nope, did not fix it.
I checked WG, pressure tested it and it holds closed for long time, so that was crossed off of the list. I cleaned 3bar and mass flow sensors too.
I inspected my turbo fans/wheels and they look like new.
I have 31K miles on my car and I just don't believe they are tired turbos..

What I came to conclusion is these small turbos have their limits at high RPM engine demand, I say at about 5500-5800RPM its limits, Smaller turbos have more benefit at lower RPM, no boost lag, larger turbos are more efficient at higher.
Anyway, I just came to conclusion that I just shift at 5500 and call it good.

Here is my log view, 2 and 3rd gears pull, 3rd was not all the way to 6K, ran out of the road, LOL
Red is RPM, Blue WG, Green is Boost in PSI.
2nd gear (first spike) See how blue WG flattens 100% at 6K shift and boost is 12PSI
3rd gear (second spike) 5800RPM WG 100% flat, boost at 14PSI

Thoughts?
2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

StinkinLinkin13

What has me questioning is Brad gives me the impression that they should be able to hold higher... Which tuning as many SHOs as he does I can only assume he has actually seen. But Idk. That's what I'm trying to see. Any examples of actually holding higher boost on the top end with stock turbos.
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

SuperPete

#12
That's what Matt at gearhead saying my waist gate should be around 80-85% and I should hold higher psi all across.
I would like to see the screenshot of someone log with them numbers.

2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

SuperPete

Now, this is something that I had on the back of my mind. Is there any chance that stock blowoff valves not holding pressure and bleeding it out?
Anyway to test that theory? Maybe unplug one at the time, run on one, plug the BW vent hole or something to see if its beading under pressure, like unplug one and put paper over the blowoff vent with zipty and see if pressure blows it to prove if its bleeding boost?

2014 SHO, GearHead TUNNED /Powered by Matt Robinson
PPE Downpipes, GearHead Intercooler, AirAid Intake
XDI-35 HPFP @ E40,   MSD Coilpacks
MUSTANG DYNO: 426/446
Continental Extreme Contact 06 & Powerstop Z23 all 4 corners

SHOdded

The c clip on the WG actuator, the hoses at the solenoid. the diaphragm  on the BOV, and the BOV spring are sometimes faulty/weak.  And of course the noisemaker on the SHO can be as well.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!