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OEM Turbo Failure, Very Low Miles

Started by RandR10, December 22, 2016, 03:31:10 PM

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ZSHO

#15
There's nothing worse than those "rush butcher chop chop hurry up jobs" and definitely feel for ya and best of luck. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

bpd1151

Quote from: SHOdded on December 22, 2016, 10:22:10 PM
Great invesrigative work, seens like the jackpot alright.  Fingers crossed only peripheral equipment is involved.
Manu..... you alright my friend?

Sip'n to much egg nog when you posted?

Ease into it my friend. Lol.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


SHOdded

LOL.  My comment was on target except for 1 misspelling.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

derfdog15

Quote from: SHOdded on December 23, 2016, 07:51:57 AM
LOL.  My comment was on target except for 1 misspelling.

2 but who's counting(I didn't even realize till BPD1151 called you out)

2015 Tuxedo Black SHO PP -(SAE corrected): 369.4/451.4 - Gone to the automotive graveyard but not forgotten

2016 F150 FX4 Sport - 3.5L V6 Ecoboost - Stock for now

2003 Redfire V6 Mustang - Building to be an 11 second car

SHOdded

You are right, 2!  I am not fond of mobile devices LOL.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

RandR10

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019JKWGYO/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1JEYMHOGQPN8X
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019JKWGAI/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1JEYMHOGQPN8X

These are the ones I got.  Amazon wouldn't ship them to me for some reason so I just drove up there and picked them up in person since it's not too far for me.  They were easy to deal with and the rep was very helpful.  He told me they originally started manufacturing them to bid the OEM contract (which they didn't get), and so they should meet any spec that the original ones had and came from Ford's original engineering drawings according to him.  I cannot verify this, but other than the writing on the castings they look identical to the ones I pulled off.

I went with them based off reviews on Amazon for their other turbos.  They sell OEM replacement cylinder heads and turbos for the Powerstrokes, a bunch of different Subarus, I think some Audi models and more.  Seemed to be good reviews across the board and much less expensive than anything else I looked at.  If I get at least 30-40k miles out of them, I'll be happy.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

pmezo33

Quote from: RandR10 on December 23, 2016, 12:01:04 PM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019JKWGYO/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1JEYMHOGQPN8X
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019JKWGAI/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1JEYMHOGQPN8X

These are the ones I got.  Amazon wouldn't ship them to me for some reason so I just drove up there and picked them up in person since it's not too far for me.  They were easy to deal with and the rep was very helpful.  He told me they originally started manufacturing them to bid the OEM contract (which they didn't get), and so they should meet any spec that the original ones had and came from Ford's original engineering drawings according to him.  I cannot verify this, but other than the writing on the castings they look identical to the ones I pulled off.

I went with them based off reviews on Amazon for their other turbos.  They sell OEM replacement cylinder heads and turbos for the Powerstrokes, a bunch of different Subarus, I think some Audi models and more.  Seemed to be good reviews across the board and much less expensive than anything else I looked at.  If I get at least 30-40k miles out of them, I'll be happy.

You should be able to get OEM turbos for pretty close to the same price as these.  Tasca sells them for about $450 to $500.  They require a $250 core charge, but you get that back when returned.

RandR10

With it being Christmas time Tasca was going to take probably over a week for them to ship unless I dropped hundreds on overnight shipping.  Need to get back on the road with this car before the ground shipping would get here.  I think the shipping back of the core is on me as well.  Cost me 30 bucks in gas to get these.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

RandR10

Putting everything back together today and I pulled out the screens that sleeve over the banjo bolts for the oil supply lines to be cleaned.  They were full of coked up oil crud.  They weren't completely blocked, but the front turbo was pretty close.  Looks like yet another part of the job that wasn't performed by the last guy.  Luckily there were no signs of any metallic contamination, so progress is being made.  For anyone changing out these turbos, based on what I'm seeing here, cleaning these screens is a must.  Don't overlook them.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

AJP turbo

That sucks...a while back subaru turbo cars utilized screens or turbo oil filters and they just eliminated them all together becaus if they clogged that scenario was worse than running dirty oil through them...id take them off...you already have a high quality filter on the engine
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

pmezo33

Just throwing my experience out there,  but i replaced the screens on the supply lines at about 100k miles.  They were in perfect shape.  No blockage at all and were still filtering well. 

RandR10

Quote from: pmezo33 on December 26, 2016, 10:35:35 PM
Just throwing my experience out there,  but i replaced the screens on the supply lines at about 100k miles.  They were in perfect shape.  No blockage at all and were still filtering well.
Interesting.  Looks like the PO wasn't exactly diligent when it came to oil changes.  I think I might check the front one again in a little while and see what it looks like just to be sure that no more gunk is accumulating in it.  If sludge accumulated in the past, it might start to slough off with the frequent oil changes I tend to do.  Don't want to replace turbos again in another 6000 miles from this.  This job is a PITA so far.  That back turbo was the toughest part.  Should be back on the road tomorrow though when the new intercooler comes UPS.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

RandR10

Have I got a story for you guys.  Got the turbos installed a couple days ago.  I let it idle with the existing engine oil because it was still fresh.  Checked for leaks while it warmed up, everything checked out and looked good.  I drove it up on ramps, changed out oil with brand new Motorcraft 500S filter and full synthetic 5W-30.  I cleared engine codes with FORSCAN and took it for a test drive and felt good while taking it easy.  I drove it for about 10 minutes and got the urge to give it a little juice and make sure it was making good boost.  Pulled nicely and upon deceleration, to my horror I saw a cloud of white smoke out the rear.  Freaking out now, I took it back to the shop and looked everything over.

Oil was dripping from the turbos, and the rear one was smoking because that one was hitting the exhaust as it dripped.  At first I thought the banjo fittings were the culprit because I couldn't source new crush washers from the local dealer and reused them, but upon closer inspection, no oil on top, just on bottom, and it looked like it was coming from the area of the hose clamp on the turbo inlet.  I pulled off the front turbo's intake hose and I saw oil pooled on the cold side of the compressor wheel, so I know it was coming from the turbo seals and not from somewhere else like PCV at the WOT port.  I racked my brain for a couple of days and did some research. 

At first I was thinking bad turbo seals, but on brand new turbos, I wanted to believe that CF Power didn't stiff me with garbage turbos right from their manufacturer.  My research told me that usually when a brand new turbo leaks, it's because of either oil drainage problems or excessive crankcase pressure.  Almost never to they leak right from the get go.

I checked the drain lines on the turbos.  Ran water through both, no visible signs of oil deposits, and no restriction on the flow of water.  Next I did a compression check to see if the rings were totally shot.  Got 150-155 across the board except for one cylinder that read 180.  At this point I was thinking my engine is completely toast and I need to drop three grand on a new one.  But I looked up the specs on this engine in the Ford shop manual, and it says those compression numbers are within spec.  A wet test shows that all of them read about 180, so I know I've got some blowby, but nothing crazy according to Ford's specs.  I figure that one cylinder had so much oil in there from the turbos blowing oil that it was the same as a wet test.

Next I put my hand over the oil fill hole at idle, and pressure would build up after about 5 seconds and burp out after I took my hand off.  Nothing crazy, but I thought it was weird that it was pressurizing like that at idle.  Then I thought for a minute, why the heck wasn't this being evacuated through the PCV valve?  The vacuum on the intake manifold should be enough to pull these gases out, right?

And then it occurred to me.  I thought maybe the UPR catch can check valve doesn't have enough flow to keep up with the blowby, so in an act of desperation, I took it off and put the stock PCV hoses back on.  Put my hand over the oil fill, no pressure build like before.  Now at this point, I got pretty excited, because I thought I was gonna need to pull my engine and replace it before I did this test. 

I took it for a test drive, and other than residual oil burn off the exhaust, no smoke at all under light load and low rpm.  I drove it nice like that for about 5 minutes to get the engine up to temp. and I did a WOT pull to ~4500 rpm and still nothing.  Mind you, before it was puking smoke out the exhaust by that RPM before I switched the factory PCV hoses back on.  Then I drove it up on the freeway and did several red line pulls, and absolutely no more smoke.  It took a while to burn off all that oil that had covered the back turbo's exhaust pipe, but as I took it to the gas station and filled it up, idling for 10 minutes in the process, the smell all but went away.  I filled up, checked the oil, and off I went again.  Still nothing as I did one more red line pull for good measure before getting home.

Moral of the story, if you have a high mileage engine with some blowby, don't install a check valve on the manifold vacuum that restricts down to 3/16" when the original PCV hose is closer to 3/4". 
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

RandR10

I took the check valve apart and this is what it looks like.  That orifice is pretty small for a PCV system.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost

RandR10

Here's a pic of the turbo inlet.  This caused so much oil to blow through them that they used almost a quart in like 10 miles of test driving and idling I had done.
2011 Ford Flex Limited Ecoboost