My SHO PP has a valvetrain tick and has for about 50-60k miles. Changed my oil recently as always with Mobile 1 FS and the tick seemed to get louder (thinner oil?). I've had some trusted mechanics tell me it's a lifter, or rocker arm. I can still beat on the car and it was running plenty strong on my LMS V10 tune. I just flashed back to stock (and put in the stock 2 bar) because I was getting some hesitation in the higher rpms I believe is attributed to cold weather blend of 93. Now at stock no hesitation just down on power. I'm frustrated with LMS since I asked for a tune update and was now told I need to submit tons of car info again that I gave them long ago so I haven't had time to mess with that again. So randomly I've had a dead battery 2-3 times in the last few weeks. Had the battery / alternator tested at the auto parts stores and was told I had a bad battery (it's a 6 month old Optima Red Top), and today told my alternator was bad and it was putting out zero amps (per the printout) after a load test with the engine running. Went right over to another auto parts shop and was told everything checked out well. I had charged my battery up to 100% and when I got home it was at 80%. I may pull the Optima out of my 68 Mustang and put it in the SHO to see if that can rule out the battery. My guess is my alternator is on its way out and sometime charges and sometime doesn't. By looking at the alternator looks like a PITA to change. Has anyone done it ?
so here are my questions ... can anyone identify the DTC's ?? my MIL (engine light) has never come on and no other dash indicators that anything is wrong but when I went to flash the car back to stock I got these...
U0100
U0121
U0131
U0151
U0154
U0159
U0424
U0533
U0534
C1001
B1215
U0151
U3003
U0100
U3003
B1310
PO230 Some are repeated ???
The engine tick is kinda loud now and sounds crappy, Any idea what it takes to fix it ?? Could it be the HPFP ??
I need to flush my transmission, coolant, and PTU. Should I have the dealer do all this at once ?? What is a fair price for those services ?? Will dealer do PTU flush ? I'm on all stock fluid except regular oil changes.
I also think I have some bushings out in the front end somewhere, and possibly sway bar end links. I hear rattles and light clunks at slow speeds in parking lots, over bumps and turns.
The car still has good power but obviously needs some love. I want to get all this fixed right with out getting raped by the dealer.
I just changed out all my spark plugs a week ago with new Motorcraft plugs gapped at about 28-30. Prior to that I was getting spark blow out that at times had out the car in limp mode. That was 95% better after new plugs but still had some tune hesitation. Now flashed back to stock it drives like new.
both driver side door locks randomly stop working, and I saw some sort of warning light about a rear sensor not working but it appeared to go away.
Sounds like you have a lot going on. How do you know you have spark blow out? The one thing I don't like about LMS is the inability to log with their device, vs the X4 for example. Hard to tell whats going on without logs. From what I have come across, a thicker oil will help with the valve train clicking, but that is more of a bandaid than a fix. I think there are even oil additives to help with valve train noise. It sounds like you have your answer on the alternator, if you have the same issue with your other battery its time to replace it. I am sure that will fix many of your issues. With the charging system being screwed up I am sure it is causing other issues, possibly the issues with your LMS tune. If you could log, you would be able to see voltage over the run, a dip in the charging system voltage would cause spark issues, limp mode etc. Hopefully someone can chime in on the codes and give you some guidance, good luck and keep us updated.
Scott
It sounds like you neglected to stay on top of your vehicles maintenance aspect especially with higher mileage you mentioned above.
Have you had all the recalls performed? or up to date? especially the FDM Recall?
Have you had the door locks/latches recall done?
The PO230 is related to the fuel system and would not worry about those other random U&B body codes which AFAIK are related your your battery.
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0230 (https://www.obd-codes.com/p0230)
Seems like a lot of communications errors, could very well be an electrical issue caused by the alternator/battery. You can monitor the "generator" pids using Forscan to tell you what it is doing while you are driving. Normally, it should keep voltage rock steady around 14.5V, and the optima battery when fully charged (including surface charge) will be around 12.88V with everything shut off (including engine).
Any aftermarket accessories of note? Do you have something plugged into the powerpoints while driving? How much power does it/do they draw?
Is the tick rhythmic or random? Does it speed up/slow down with engine rpms?
Best to use a mechanic's stethescope to see if the sound can be localized. Can you hear it even with the cover on, or do you have to "run nekked" to hear it? VCT solenoids do give out on these engines, but rarely do they not throw a code. So that won't be the source of the tick. The oil pump does occasionally give out, so I would check idle and 2000 rpm oil pressure with a gauge at the oil pressure switch.
car is stock less a K&N filter and LMS tune, but now stock. I could tell before I was getting spark blow out because of a lot of hesitation. I pulled my plugs and they were worn at 40-50 :(
My SHO was at the dealer last September when they replaced timing chain guides, timing chain, and chain tensioner at like $3k.
they did something with the door lock recall. I think they just replaced some IDK.... I did have a fuel pump recall fixed at one point due to fuel smell in the car. I drive a lot, and I work 2 jobs with 2 kiddos I am super busy so yeah the car maybe somewhat neglected, but like I said it still seems to run good. I out ran a 2016 GT Stang on the highway just a week ago lol it had at least exhaust I could hear it nice and loud behind me as he got a little smaller from 60-110. I love the car and want to maintain it. The body and interior and wheels are all still in great shape so it looks great and still gets lot of looks and compliments.
The tick is rhythmic. It's slow at idle and speed up with engine rpm. I took off my spark plug wires one by one and the sound never changed which I believe is supposed to be that way for top end ticks, I believe bottom end ticks / knocks lessen when you pull the plug on the damaged cylinder by taking the load off of it. I think that is right but I can still beat on it and it hasn't blown up. Like I said also a reputable friend and local race engine builder / tuner agreed its a lifter or something. I never noticed any metal in the oil when draining.
Do you guys think I should have the dealer address all of this at once, or do PTU, coolant, trans fluid changes elsewhere ??
I only want the dealer to mess with the engine tick and I need the car reliable so I guess I'll have them look at the alternator, it looks like a pain to change where it is.
suggestions ??
thanks in advance guys..... hoping this isn't a huge repair :(
Try switching oils, I recommend Amsoil because many people have reported the engine running quieter and smoother after the change. Are you using the Motorcraft oil filter or something else?
If you suspect the battery, thoroughly check the case for cracking. Acid spillout from a cracked case has been known to damage wiring harnesses, leading to all sorts of error codes. Check, clean, grease and reconnect connectors at the PCM and the BCM.
Is your SHO eligible for the Fuel Pump Delivery Module recall? Check with the VIN at https://owner.ford.com/tools/account/maintenance/recalls/results.html (https://owner.ford.com/tools/account/maintenance/recalls/results.html)
Your dealer may/may not do PTU/RDU changes. All other fluids they should be willing to service. If they are hesitant about the PTU/RDU fluids, try to talk to the trans tech directly, and if that fails take it to a reputable transmission shop.
The alternator is probably the same process as on the 3.5L on the Edge as shown here, EXCEPT, the AC Compressor also has to be removed ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_CjQH3rROM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_CjQH3rROM)
I would have to agree that your SHO is long over due for some extra love(TLC).
I have great relations with my dealer and had the PTU,RDU,TRANS,Coolant,Brake system flush performed with roughly 30k on the clock.
I would say try to see if the dealer would work out some kind of package deal and have everything performed in one day and save a few trips especially with your busy schedule & limited time since you already spend a significant amount of $$$$ there already.
I would also see if the dealer would accommodate you bringing your own fluids especially the PTU Fluid.
Since you have a PP SHO the PTU Flush which is a bit cost effective and time consuming out of the list below since the passenger DP needs to be removed and all and needs to be flushed out twice.
This is a rough estimate which i gathered up from my personal experience and may vary depending on the dealer,and best of luck to ya. Z
1)PTU Flush. 250.00-300.00
2)RDU Flush.80.00
TRANS Flush 80.00
4)Coolant Flush. 80.00
5)Brake Flush. 80.00
I know you changed the spark plugs but would also install some new (COP)Boots based on the mileage you currently have. 3.90 ea x6 needed.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,ignition,spark+plug+(coil-on-plug)+boot,10150 (http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,ignition,spark+plug+(coil-on-plug)+boot,10150)
PCV Valve 4.39
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,ignition,spark+plug+(coil-on-plug)+boot,10150 (http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,ignition,spark+plug+(coil-on-plug)+boot,10150)
5% Discount Code: 1A0ACE283964FE
Expires: March 20, 2017
I hope the outlined prices above helps someone out and gives them a true feel on what to expect prior to visiting your local friendly Ford dealer. Z :)
Forgot to ask, are all these DTCs ones that have come on AFTER you cleared codes, or have you never cleared codes? Sometimes flashing the PCM can set weird codes, so if you have done it multiple times (stock to tune, tune to stock, ...) they could just have accumulated and not really mean anything is wrong. Clear all codes/KAM reset your SHO, then see if the codes come back.
all those codes were there that I had to clear before I flashed it back to stock.
Car gets to the dealer now all the DTC's are cleared ?? probably didn't help. I'm going to give them all the codes now, I didn't before because I thought surely they could diagnose a charging issue. They're blaming my 6 month old Optima red tip battery ?? They say it bad and give it back to me to warranty with Advance Auto who says it tests good! UGH !!!!!!!!!!
they want to replace my motor over the ticking noise claiming they can't replace one part and be concerned if that will cause something else to go wrong in the engine. I really believe its a tapping lifter and / or rocker after researching all over the internet for tapping lifter the fix seems easy. I might have to tackle it myself !??!?!??
I'm having the dealer flush my coolant and service my transmission while it's there. But they wanted to charge me over $900 to replace my front strut mounts and sway bar end links. Price sounds excessive to me so I declined that. Seems like something I can do my self if it costs that dang much ?!??!??
Quote from: 68_GT on February 22, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
I'm having the dealer flush my coolant and service my transmission while it's there. But they wanted to charge me over $900 to replace my front strut mounts and sway bar end links. Price sounds excessive to me so I declined that. Seems like something I can do my self if it costs that dang much ?!??!??
That's insane. You'll need to remove the struts from the vehicle and compress the springs to replace the mounts. Each mount runs for about $50-$100, i believe. You can probably rent the tool at an auto parts store. Really not that big of a deal, but you need to be very careful when doing it. The end links took me about an hour to do. I could probably do it again in about 30 minutes. Fairly simple job. Each end link cost me about $10.
Quote from: pmezo33 on February 22, 2017, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: 68_GT on February 22, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
I'm having the dealer flush my coolant and service my transmission while it's there. But they wanted to charge me over $900 to replace my front strut mounts and sway bar end links. Price sounds excessive to me so I declined that. Seems like something I can do my self if it costs that dang much ?!??!??
That's insane. You'll need to remove the struts from the vehicle and compress the springs to replace the mounts. Each mount runs for about $50-$100, i believe. You can probably rent the tool at an auto parts store. Really not that big of a deal, but you need to be very careful when doing it. The end links took me about an hour to do. I could probably do it again in about 30 minutes. Fairly simple job. Each end link cost me about $10.
I knew it...
I'll pull the strut assembly out and get new mounts and take them to a trustworthy mechanic and pay them to compress the spring and put them in. Any info about the sway bar links install ?
Quote from: 68_GT on February 22, 2017, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: pmezo33 on February 22, 2017, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: 68_GT on February 22, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
I'm having the dealer flush my coolant and service my transmission while it's there. But they wanted to charge me over $900 to replace my front strut mounts and sway bar end links. Price sounds excessive to me so I declined that. Seems like something I can do my self if it costs that dang much ?!??!??
That's insane. You'll need to remove the struts from the vehicle and compress the springs to replace the mounts. Each mount runs for about $50-$100, i believe. You can probably rent the tool at an auto parts store. Really not that big of a deal, but you need to be very careful when doing it. The end links took me about an hour to do. I could probably do it again in about 30 minutes. Fairly simple job. Each end link cost me about $10.
I knew it...
I'll pull the strut assembly out and get new mounts and take them to a trustworthy mechanic and pay them to compress the spring and put them in. Any info about the sway bar links install ?
Just did it a couple days ago. Wrote up a step for step how to do it.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7466.msg113494.html#msg113494 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7466.msg113494.html#msg113494)
got my SHO back with only a transmission service and coolant flush.
I'm not paying $900 for strut mounts and end links, or $300 for a new door latch, and they wouldn't fix my engine tick claiming I need a new engine. They claim if they make one repair to stop the tapping noise it would cause other problems somewhere else opening a can of worms. I have researched this to death now and I'm convinced I have a bad lifter (lash adjuster) which may have also damaged the finger rocker arm roller tip.
I believe the ticking lifter is coming from the back side of the engine on the passenger side which is good and bad. Bad because it's harder to reach good because I wont have to remove the upper intake to get the valve cover off. I think I'm going to tackle this myself by pulling the valve cover an getting the lifter removal tool to compress the valve spring to pull the rocker and lifter out for replacement.
Has anyone had any experience with this on our cars ? My SHO runs great but now sounds like caca. I'm guessing something got into the lifter causing it to get stuck and therefore is no longer adjusting the lash causing the tick.
Looks like you will have to remove the engine from the SHO to get access to do the work, because you have to first remove the camshafts and valve tappets to get to the Valve Spring, Retainer and Seal.
BTW, there aren't any roller rockers in this system.
QuoteThe valve train uses Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets (DAMB). The camshaft lobes are positioned directly above mechanical buckets which are positioned on top of the valves.
Valve Clearance Check Remove the valve covers. For additional information, refer to Valve Cover — LH and Valve Cover — RH in this section.
NOTE: Engine must be at room temperature before measuring. The valve clearance must be measured with the camshaft at base circle. The engine will have to be rotated with the crankshaft pulley bolt to bring each valve to base circle.
Use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance of each valve and record its location. A midrange clearance is the most desirable:
Intake: 0.15-0.25 mm (0.006-0.01 in)
Exhaust: 0.360-0.460 mm (0.0142-0.0181 in)
NOTE: The number on the valve tappet reflects the thickness of the valve tappet. For example, a tappet with the number 3.310 has the thickness of 3.31 mm (0.13 in).
If any of the valve clearances are out of specification, select new tappets using this formula: tappet thickness = measured clearance + the base tappet thickness - most desirable thickness.
Select the tappets and mark the installation location.
If required, install the new selected valve tappets in the marked locations. For additional information, refer to Valve Tappets in this section.
from what I can tell the overhead cams sit on a little rocker that pushes down on a lifter. There a tool that presses on the spring to pull the rocker out then the lifter comes out.
are these cams sitting directly on the lifters on top of the valves ?
Basically, the camshaft sits directly above the valves with different thickness pucks (or shims) for adjustment. I believe this is very similar to the valvetrain in the Yamaha SHOs.
The concept is alike to the Shim-over-bucket "adjusters" explained in this article here
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-do-bikes-use-shim-under-bucket-valve-adjusters (https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-do-bikes-use-shim-under-bucket-valve-adjusters)
See the HowTo for the Top 60K service on Gen 1/2 SHOs
http://web.archive.org/web/20110506202226/http://www.shophoenixproject.com/upper60k/upper60k.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20110506202226/http://www.shophoenixproject.com/upper60k/upper60k.htm)
Search for "Then loosen all of the spark plugs a few turns" read from there on down. Also note this will be a good time to check the shims for damage.
wow,,,, so is my local Ford dealer incapable of doing that or unwilling to because they want me to buy an engine ?
who does this kind of work ???
maybe its not that bad ???
It is a tedious list of steps, but any competent mechanic should be able to get it done. IF I went that far down the rabbit hole, though, I would look at everything while the engine was out, including the bottom end. Seems like you have mechanics you can work with? Might make financial sense then. As to parts availability, I can't say 4 sure, as we haven't had anyone do this work yet (and post about it).
8 BL3Z-6571-A (https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-valve-seals-bl3z6571a/?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmaT1GVTEwNDA0JnI9OCZhPWZvcmQmbz10YXVydXMmeT0yMDEzJnQ9c2hvJmU9My01bC12Ni1nYXM%3D) Valve Seals $2.84 $2.00
9 AA5Z-6513-A (https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-valve-springs-aa5z6513a/?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmaT1GVTEwNDA0JnI9OSZhPWZvcmQmbz10YXVydXMmeT0yMDEzJnQ9c2hvJmU9My01bC12Ni1nYXM%3D) Valve Springs TAURUS; W/TURBO $4.25 $2.74
10 7T4Z-6514-AA (https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-valve-spring-retainers-7t4z6514aa/?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmaT1GVTEwNDA0JnI9MTAmYT1mb3JkJm89dGF1cnVzJnk9MjAxMyZ0PXNobyZlPTMtNWwtdjYtZ2Fz) Valve Spring Retainers TAURUS $5.45 $3.51
11 1S7Z-6518-AA (https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-valve-keeper-1s7z6518aa/?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmaT1GVTEwNDA0JnI9MTEmYT1mb3JkJm89dGF1cnVzJnk9MjAxMyZ0PXNobyZlPTMtNWwtdjYtZ2Fz) Valve Keeper TAURUS $4.75 $3.05
12 AT4Z-6500-AAA (https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-valve-lifters-at4z6500aaa/?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmaT1GVTEwNDA0JnI9MTImYT1mb3JkJm89dGF1cnVzJnk9MjAxMyZ0PXNobyZlPTMtNWwtdjYtZ2Fz) Valve Lifters TAURUS $11.93 $7.68
in that link it didn't say why that whole job was necessary,,,,, I would guess once I removed my valve cover it might be obvious which shim might need to be replaced upon a visual inspection ??
It might not be too bad if it's just one or 2. Doing the entire engine might be a real nuisance.
think I'll pull valve cover and have a look my self. Is it OK to remove these quick connect hoses to move them out of the way ?
(http://i.imgur.com/i3RsJuzh.jpg)
Quote from: 68_GT on March 02, 2017, 11:29:28 AM
think I'll pull valve cover and have a look my self. Is it OK to remove these quick connect hoses to move them out of the way ?
(http://i.imgur.com/i3RsJuzh.jpg)
Yes but be careful with the fuel vapor hose,red clip.
BTW fixed the pic for ya. Z
The 2 with the white clip are vacuum lines, those are fine to remove.
The red clip one is fuel. Not sure if it's pressurized or a return to the tank.
EXERCISE CAUTION IF YOU REMOVE IT.
Yeah I think only the white clip hoses will have to be removed to get it off. What is the module attached to the valve cover there ?
Should I assume the valve cover gasket will not be reusable ? I just want to peek under the cover for now. A shop wanted $350 to look at it.
Oh and thanks for helping with the pic adjustment !
Quote from: glock-coma on March 02, 2017, 11:36:42 AM
The 2 with the white clip are vacuum lines, those are fine to remove.
The red clip one is fuel. Not sure if it's pressurized or a return to the tank.
EXERCISE CAUTION IF YOU REMOVE IT.
Especially since the clip has been known to be brittle and break upon removal, from what I have seen other members post.
IMHO would not remove the rear valve cover on a temporary basis because there is a silicone/sealant holding it together so essentially you will have to remove the old sealant carefully and install new silicone/sealant and let it cure for a while and also need to torque down the bolts properly to oem specs. Z
ticking engine video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg)
Quote from: 68_GT on March 02, 2017, 12:24:04 PM
ticking engine video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg)
thought it was a round rubbery gasket for the valve cover gasket ?
Quote from: ZSHO on March 02, 2017, 12:13:19 PM
IMHO would not remove the rear valve cover on a temporary basis because there is a silicone/sealant holding it together so essentially you will have to remove the old sealant carefully and install new silicone/sealant and let it cure for a while and also need to torque down the bolts properly to oem specs. Z
You mean RTV?...nothing special its quite common...you realize dealer level mechanics slap it on and go and torque wrenches are rarely used....its a valve cover, clean the mating services and thoroughly degrease when applying rtv and dont over tighten the bolts since they are going into aluminum easy peasy...
ticking engine video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg)
That doesn't sound good at all. Sounds like metal on metal contact to me. Possibly a rod knock.
What does your oil changes look like? Metal shavings? I'd cracked open an oil filter and see if it's catching anything.
its coming from the top end I'm pretty sure. The car runs fine and the way I drive I think I would have blown it up by now if it was a rod. To my knowledge engines don't last long with knocking rods.
I just had a mechanic use a mechanics stethoscope and he agreed it seems to be coming from a lifter. oil is fresh and clean.
Sounds like a bad HPFP or rod knock. That is NOT ticking.
I'm just basing this off what i hear in that clip. Lifter noise is more of a tick. The sound your car seems to be making is more of a knock.
Definitely no metal shavings anywhere in that oil or oil filter?
Quote from: SHOdded on March 02, 2017, 01:20:34 PM
Sounds like a bad HPFP or rod knock. That is NOT ticking.
Exactly what i'm hearing too. Sounds like every other rod knock that i've ever heard. This sounds nothing like a tick that you'd get from a lifter.
As long as a low oil pressure light does not come on, the rod knock won't do damage, generally. If it does come on, no more driving.
Quote from: AJP turbo on March 02, 2017, 12:39:22 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 02, 2017, 12:13:19 PM
IMHO would not remove the rear valve cover on a temporary basis because there is a silicone/sealant holding it together so essentially you will have to remove the old sealant carefully and install new silicone/sealant and let it cure for a while and also need to torque down the bolts properly to oem specs. Z
You mean RTV?...nothing special its quite common...you realize dealer level mechanics slap it on and go and torque wrenches are rarely used....its a valve cover, clean the mating services and thoroughly degrease when applying rtv and dont over tighten the bolts since they are going into aluminum easy peasy...
Correct RTV/Sealant same crap different smell.lol. Z
Motorcraft #TA357 SEALANT - SILICONE (TA357)
Pics below.
(http://i.imgur.com/KF2TRgSh.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-TA357-SEALANT-SILICONE/dp/B0065T1N8I/ref=sr_1_1/165-7563507-2835908?ie=UTF8&qid=1488478838&sr=8-1&keywords=ford%2Fmotorcraft+TA+357+SEALANT (https://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-TA357-SEALANT-SILICONE/dp/B0065T1N8I/ref=sr_1_1/165-7563507-2835908?ie=UTF8&qid=1488478838&sr=8-1&keywords=ford%2Fmotorcraft+TA+357+SEALANT)
the high flow fuel pump is the silver thing on the front top of the engine right ? has the foam noise dampner on it ?
considering worst case scenario here if I needed an engine here what would you guys do ?
thinking to get a used complete engine out of a wrecked car or get a deal on a new Ford engine assembly ? maybe an upgrade engine with Ford racing ?? sheez.... My dealer wanted $5k for a long block and $10k for a whole new engine.
Quote from: 68_GT on March 02, 2017, 02:01:10 PM
considering worst case scenario here if I needed an engine here what would you guys do ?
thinking to get a used complete engine out of a wrecked car or get a deal on a new Ford engine assembly ? maybe an upgrade engine with Ford racing ?? sheez.... My dealer wanted $5k for a long block and $10k for a whole new engine.
If you end up needing a new engine, I would go with either a SuperSix Motorsports or Livernois shortblock (or longblock if available). May cost a little more than a stock short/longblock, but will make more power, and be able to handle said increased power.
The cheaper option would be a used unit out of a car that was in a rear end collision, etc. but you never know how that was cared for.
Correct that is the HPFP. Hopefully that is making the racket.
I believe RandR10 is looking for a replacement engine for his Flex and says that 13+ engines are easily sourced on eBay. New engines will be more difficult, Ford seems to have a backlog. And yeah, they are expensive to find and install.
I just talked to Tousley Ford and they say a new engine is $4600 discounted to $3,700 for the good guy discount. New engine is basically a long block. Apparently they don't have a fully dressed SHO replacement engine. Do those come from Ford Racing ? Maybe only for a F150. Would that work just need to use our upper intake ??
here is a demo of the HFPF I think ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYDRXsG6Qc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYDRXsG6Qc)
I guess if I had to get a new engine I'd consider getting a Livernois built engine, but how much power does just the longblock add and at what point does the higher power start really breaking other things ? trans etc...
Quote from: 68_GT on March 02, 2017, 02:39:46 PM
I just talked to Tousley Ford and they say a new engine is $4600 discounted to $3,700 for the good guy discount. New engine is basically a long block. Apparently they don't have a fully dressed SHO replacement engine. Do those come from Ford Racing ? Maybe only for a F150. Would that work just need to use our upper intake ??
here is a demo of the HFPF I think ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYDRXsG6Qc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYDRXsG6Qc)
F150 engine has a few differences, it is mounted longitudinal to start. F150 stock has 3 bar for both map sensors. F150 has a different HPFP as well. Intake system is different, different turbos, different intercooler.
10-12 SHO/Flex/XSport vs. 13+ have minimal differences that can be accounted for, but I do not think an F150 engine swap would be financially prudent.
Sounds decent for a long block price. A short block is about 1400$ or so. And the "knocking" sound isn't from the HPFP looks like, and indeed from the rear valve cover (middle) area. Does the sound vary directly with RPM, and does it make a difference if the cover is on or not? If the cover mutes it substantially, it is very likely top end noise in which case we are back to the lifter and possibly camshaft scenario.
As we know from bpd's build, a built block is good for at least 600 AWHP (with meth kit), well past daily driver levels for the trans. 500 AWHP or so is about the limit for the stock trans for DD duty.
seems to get a little louder when the engine cover is removed. The HPFP definitely is louder with the cover off.
any possibility this is an exhaust leak ?
took a video under the car too.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD2rOY4yCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD2rOY4yCY)
under the car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxDlArtrUw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxDlArtrUw)
There's no chance in the world an exhaust leak would ever make that noise. That's a knock.
I still have my oil in the recycle container from my last oil change. I can't see any metal flakes in it. Wouldn't it look like it had glitter in it if it was a bad rod bearing ? I listened to other videos of rod knock and mine doesn't seem to have the same hollow knock sound ?
Very loud under car also. Rod knock does not necessarily leave traces in the oill. Bearings may simply wear away over time.
That video at post #33 sounds exactly like this. And that video is labeled ecoboost rod knock
https://youtu.be/1F5Kl9DVN7I
To quote a comment from that link:
"Aaron Martin forgive me i don't remember which cylinder it was but it destroyed a piston and rod, new short block was installed under warranty ( truck only had 6000 miles on it), apparently through some internet research they had issues with injectors leaking and causing the problem although they did not replace any injectors with my repair."
Even though it is from an F150, the same principles apply. Speculative mind you, how many times do we get to see the actual damage? Too consumed with the bottom line.
DO you have any form of tuner/datalogging software? I want to know what your KR is at idle, etc. as that would indicate if stock knock sensors are picking up the knock that we hear in the videos.
I remember in shop class to find the cylinder that's knocking you remove the plug wires one at a time and listen. If the knock gets quieter when the wire is removed that's your bad cylinder. Removing the wire stops the combustion pressure on that cylinder.
Not sure if you can still troubleshoot a di motor like that.
Quote from: glock-coma on March 03, 2017, 10:16:31 AM
I remember in shop class to find the cylinder that's knocking you remove the plug wires one at a time and listen. If the knock gets quieter when the wire is removed that's your bad cylinder. Removing the wire stops the combustion pressure on that cylinder.
Not sure if you can still troubleshoot a di motor like that.
Wouldn't that cause the injector to continue to spray while not getting any spark? Not sure I'd want to take that risk. Might cause fuel damage to the cats.
Quote from: pmezo33 on March 03, 2017, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: glock-coma on March 03, 2017, 10:16:31 AM
I remember in shop class to find the cylinder that's knocking you remove the plug wires one at a time and listen. If the knock gets quieter when the wire is removed that's your bad cylinder. Removing the wire stops the combustion pressure on that cylinder.
Not sure if you can still troubleshoot a di motor like that.
Wouldn't that cause the injector to continue to spray while not getting any spark? Not sure I'd want to take that risk. Might cause fuel damage to the cats.
Plug wire is only disconnected for a few seconds.
I did that on every cylinder and the sound didn't change. Knock sound was the same without combustion.
Took my SHO to a mechanic who swears up and down it's not a rod knocking. He says it sounds like a collapsed lifter. So are these lifter solid or do they pump with oil pressure? Thinking it's either that or needs a shim somewhere ??
dang engine just blew.
official time of death 132,311.70 miles.
Engine fragments took out one of my bran new rear tires..... ugh
looks like a new longblock and upgraded turbos are in my near future, unless they'll blow up another stock longblock ???
:(
Quote from: 68_GT on June 05, 2017, 07:07:19 PM
dang engine just blew.
official time of death 132,311.70 miles.
Engine fragments took out one of my bran new rear tires..... ugh
looks like a new longblock and upgraded turbos are in my near future, unless they'll blow up another stock longblock ???
That really sucks. Hope you're not planning on bringing it to that mechanic that told you it wasn't a rod knock making that noise.
Sounds like you have a problem with the electronics, I had a similar problem, advised me best harley battery (https://allforharley.com/best-battery-for-harley-davidson/) but I did not connect it correctly and I began to have problems, I had to go to the master, then and found the cause.