Anyone on the forums tried using cutouts on their builds? I threw some on my explorer and got my Livernois tune and after some troubleshooting found that I was getting some blowout due to the plugs not being gapped to .030. When I had the cutouts open or closed I was getting the blowout. I regapped the plugs and when I have the cutouts closed the blowout seems to have gone away but then when I open them up I get the blowout back and it shudders but not as bad as before I gapped them...
Does the ecoboost just not like being completely free flowing? Other FI applications I have built loved being free of backpressure but this does not seem to be the case. If that is true, guess I will have to build my exhaust sooner than anticipated... >:D
(disclaimer: I have spoken with Livernois about the issue and they have been very helpful. I just want to get a community consensus about the issue so later on down the road people like me wont toss $400 down the drain)
Why are you so confident that stuttering is a symptom blowout?...sounds like you have other issues...no spark problems with my stock plugs to this point...im lucky i guess
I would say the ecoboost loves to be free flowing
If it were my car i would log and check for things like actual throttle angle. Often the throttle blade changes when you have the pedal to the floor and it can feel like power surges and pull backs...check that boost levels and load are smooth and steady throughout a pull. Check that the spark curve is smooth and slowly increasing with rpm provided load/boost is the same...misfire counts.
Is afr smooth and consistent....jagged afr readings can be indicative of spark blowout in a log...just somethings to look for when actually diagnosing spark blowout before jumping to conclusions
I am going with blowout due to the recommendation by a lot of the community to regap the plugs, which I have done, to .030. The feeling and how its acting is very similar to when I was having a lot of blowout in my supra a few years back. That is why I am assuming its blowout. I do need to datalog and see what it actually going on, just don't have a logger at the moment. But I wanted to get the feedback of the community on their experience or what they have seen. I in all honesty am confused at how the explorer can run just fine with the cutouts open before the tune but then I run into issues when it gets a tune onto it. I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am.
Quote from: 16xsport on February 14, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am.
Lol...they are true professionals that have mastered your tune...your dabbling in your previous tuning endeavors pale in comparison to their tuning accomplishments.
Maybe you are getting some reversion of air through your cutouts making your 02 sensors read erratically since the large cutout holes are not far from the primary o2 sensors..need logs
Quote from: ajpturbo on February 14, 2016, 02:27:21 PM
Quote from: 16xsport on February 14, 2016, 02:19:42 PM
I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am.
Lol...they are true professionals that have mastered your tune...your dabbling in your previous tuning endeavors pale in comparison to their tuning accomplishments.
I sense sarcasm?
They are after the downpipes, so I dont think that should be an issue. I can see the blowout due to the increased flow of air but it just seems odd to me that the stock tune didnt have an issue with the better flowing exhaust but the Livernois tune does. Either way, I ordered a logger and we shall see what is actually going on inside there tomorrow.
What logger?....ashame the 600 for the tune and device doesnt come with a logger.
I dont see the increased airflow causing blowout at all...not at the modest boost levels of the lms tune
And that's why I am surprised to see it, however I just loaded the 91 tune and the backfire and missing is completely gone. Sooo, bad fuel from the station or too much timing on the tune?? We shall see next fill. I got the innovate logger, kinda a toss up with the loggers. Seemed like an equal amount of good and bad reviews
Without further data, it is very likely that fuel might indeed be the culprit here. You gotta remember, stock tunes leave a lot of headroom, the "hotter" the tune, the less headroom and more ingredient-sensitive your EB ride will become. And if you live in an area with summer/winter gas formulations, all the more important to use the freshest, preferably top tier, fuel with octane rating equivalent to at least that required by the tune.
The spark curve would have to be grossly out of whack so i doubt thats the problem....the timing tables could be really out of whack and the knock sensors would adjust as required...these engines rarely knock , we simply see the knock retard but not actual knock
May not be a perfect fix, but if better fuel eliminates the symptoms, that's a good thing IMHO. Something the driver has in his control to try out. As everyone knows by now (most likely) :) I do support datalogging when & where possible with Forscan and Torque Pro (being the cheapest most reliable options), but also recognize they are not the speediest dataloggers due to the OBD adapter speed limitations (what I CAN confirm).
Well, like I said before, the 91 tune fixed the issue but from all of my past endeavors I have not run into a problem where a 2 octane rating was the difference between some pretty bad missing and running perfectly fine. But I have never worked with the EB platform before so I am figuring out all of the quirks as I go. I live in the southern most part of central Florida so no summer/winter mixes here. I am going to try a different gas station the next fill and see if it is any better. I should be getting the logger in tomorrow so I can see what actually is going on with the motor and see where the problem is. I hope it is just fuel and not something more difficult to deal with.
Recap for those just joining us:
93 tune for 3 BAR and Downpipes: Missing and stumbling at high RPM under acceleration with cutouts open or closed
93 tune for same but minus DP: Same issue, less noticeable but still there with cutouts open or closed
91 tune for 3 BAR Stock DP: Issue is completely gone as of my test run on the way into work but have only done 3 pulls so I cant 100% confirm it is gone. tested both open and closed cutouts
I have gapped the plugs down to .030
I appreciate your logging your efforts to resolve these issues. Great learning experience for all of us as well.
Kinda sounds like 14shocars problems...high rpm stuttering/popping...only you are using the proper fuel so it makes me wonder what is going on
nevermind... found it.
It does seem like it is similar to the videos. And no, I have no mixed anything in with my fuel. same station and same exact pump for the last year
UPDATE: Got the innovate data logger in... DO NOT BUY IT. it will only connect with innovate app and when you try to connect it to their computer based program it just wont connect. This logger is crap through and through. Picking up the kiwi today and hopefully have it in tomorrow
Quit messing around and go livelink with sct....how much are u spending on that other crap?
Picked up the Kiwi 2 for $30. Much better than the other innovate device. Going to start logging here when I get some time off this weekend.
Update: I filled up at a mobile and wasn't noticing the missing. I reloaded the 93 tune and didn't notice it for a couple runs. I did start noticing that its only at Redline that it is happening now which leads me to the next conclusion/question... does LMS have a rev limiter still built in, or am I just maxing out the fuel pressure at 6500RPM? Logging will tell on the later of the two.
I did have a slight hiccup at one point and it was acting like it couldn't find 2nd on a pull. Either way, the excuse that my Cutouts are causing the issue is out the door because they don't seem to make a difference at this point, open or closed.
What the hell is kiwi garbage...need a real logger with a nice software package....not fuel pressure related...you have fuel for days up at 6500...the higher the better as far as rpm and fuel pressure...the problem would be above 15 psi and below 2500 rpm
Kiwi is just the adapter so a phone/laptop can pick up the signal. The RPM hits the redline then it acts like there is a limiter there but a lot slower and more pronounced than an actual limiter
Its how you read and view the data that sets apart the good logging packages...i doubt that kiwi thing will help you...almost seems like lms has something going in up top for some cars...we need good logs
Do you know what kind of fuel pressure you should see at redline?
I don't. I have a general idea on where it should be when I see it but I don't know the figures. When I was building some of my past cars, I had a manufactures manual on ALL of the specs on PDF and could go on that. the Kiwi just takes the info from the OBD port and broadcasts it via WIFI
So what do u think it should be? Take a guess
Blasting it over wifi is garbage...you need tools and graphs and histograms...it needs to be viewed in a format that will make sense
if I remember from snooping around something around 900 psi... I was seeing 200 something at idle and I know its a mechanical pump operated by the lobe
Quote from: 16xsport on February 18, 2016, 12:43:43 AM
if I remember from snooping around something around 900 psi... I was seeing 200 something at idle and I know its a mechanical pump operated by the lobe
If u have 900 u have a problem...you should have at least 1800 but most likely 2000-2200 psi depending on what is being commanded...you really need tuner level software to properly diagnose an issue with this.....the fact that you are blindly guessing at what the fuel pressure should be tells me that you will only find more questions which lead to more speculation with your kiwi logging endeavors....i kinda feel bad that you are about to waste precious moments of your life...you really need good logs and i dont know how you do that with lms ....this car will be widly different than anything else you have manuals on
Like I said, I don't have all the specs so I would have to do some research and find out where things are supposed to be. The Kiwi is, again, just to broadcast. I have FORscan and another program to read PIDs and it does a decent job of it... Livelink isn't available for the 16 explorer and if the software is available then I will be able to use it with the Kiwi adapter.
Live link is available for your car..but u need an sct device which would be silly for u to buy at this point
So, 93 gas with 91 tune was fine, but 93 gas with 93 tune was not? If so, it seems that current fuel is not providing the cushion the tune needs, and you should keep running the 91 tune and filling up with 93 fuel. LME does not advocate additives, so try to get quality E0 gas or unleaded "race" gas, see what happens. Top end fuel pressure should max out near 2500 psi on a '13+. No CELs? No codes?
What is the sampling interval you are getting with the kiwi adapter?
93 from another station was giving me a lot of issues. 91 tune fixed it but it was sporadic sometimes. let the tank get low and filled up at a mobile and loaded the 93 tune back in and have not noticed an issue until I hit redline and then it acts like its hitting a rev limiter but slower (if that makes sense) The sampling rate is 10,000 Hz I believe(from what I can find). no codes, no CEL I ran the check with the OBD Fusion app that seems to be working nicely when paired and it wasn't kicking back anything. I tried to get FORscan to work with the adapter but for some reason it doesn't want to play nice. I will check out the SCT software and see if it will pair up with the Kiwi 2. I have this weekend off so I will get some logs and get them in here so people can go bananas with them. OBD fusion also supports dropbox for easy transfer
You cant pair anything up with sct lol...you need to buy an x3 or x4 and plug into obd port and download live link gen 2 its free lol
If you have OBDFusion that came with the Kiwi you can do some logging but the only graphing you will get is on the device or a csv file which is a pita to read without graphs. OBDfusion is AKA OBDlink and I have a thread with my current setup in the datalog section. Logging looks pretty straightforward let me know if I need to walk you through it.
Someone recently put up a page that will auto convert any CSV file to a graph so that is an option as well. Maybe someone with a better memory will post the link.
The OBD programs are handy for some things like basic troubleshooting and pretty gauges but they lack the resolution and software package SCT offers. For a problem where things are happening very quickly (high rpm miss for example) and you need to log many parameters SCT is the only way to go IMHO. You might want to consider buying a used X3 or X4 for logging.
I run Torque, Dashcommand, and currently OBDlink (Fusion) for basic stuff and gauges but when logging for a tune or if I had a critical issue i would fire up the X4.
The PID list in OBDFusion/Link is pretty sparse so you will need to manually enter some pids you need.
Another thing you might want to consider.
Your X is behaving the same way mine did at the track when it blew the shift point and smacked the limiter.
Shift point and rev limit are two different scalars and I noticed you say you are shifting at 6500? On the stock tune the shift point is low 6K and the limiter is at 6400
Is it possible your shift point was moved but your limiter wasn't?
I misspoke when I said 6500, it was around 6000. If I am in manual mode and I hit the shift right at redline its fine but a second too slow and it feels like it is hitting the limiter. This issue is slightly different than the initial issue so I think it was safe to say it was just crap fuel that caused the initial issue. I just downloaded Dash Commander and that seems a lot better than the OBD fusion app.
I do like SCT and I may consider buying the GTX when it comes out but as of now I haven't been able to find a tune offered for anything over the 14 explorer. I loved my Diabosport trinity and being able to adjust my own tune to how I like it as well as when I was tuning with my AEM unit.
I have run Dashcommand and the stock Tux dash is awesome and very fast. once you start creating custom gauges they are slower AKA Torque.
The OBDLink/Fusion is very fast and quite flexible if you want to make some gauges that flow better with the interior.
My current setup is attached. There is a small learning curve but once you get the hang and save multiple gauge setups it goes pretty quickly and its simple to change the gauge function once it's built without any hiccups.
Quote from: 16xsport on February 18, 2016, 08:22:04 PM
I misspoke when I said 6500, it was around 6000. If I am in manual mode and I hit the shift right at redline its fine but a second too slow and it feels like it is hitting the limiter. This issue is slightly different than the initial issue so I think it was safe to say it was just crap fuel that caused the initial issue. I just downloaded Dash Commander and that seems a lot better than the OBD fusion app.
I do like SCT and I may consider buying the GTX when it comes out but as of now I haven't been able to find a tune offered for anything over the 14 explorer. I loved my Diabosport trinity and being able to adjust my own tune to how I like it as well as when I was tuning with my AEM unit.
Your Xsport can be custom turned by any notable SCT dealer and custom tune writer. Such as Unleashed Tuning.
If you are going to SCT's site and seeing that they only offer it for a 14 or older is because they only offer canned tunes for 14 or older. You don't want or need an official SCT tune.
Although I could also be miss reading what your intention is.
Sent using smoke signals.
Gotcha, so any tune can be loaded into an SCT. I know of the SCT just never used one before.
Update, Got the V5 tune from Livernois, seems to have solved the issue.
Great to hear! Any idea what was updated to help resolve the issue?
Seems like people that have after market free flowing exhaust are aboe to hear some of these high rpm tune problems that may exist
Couple different platforms now seems to have this going on....it just seems odd how tune revisions seem to clear it up on multiple platforms
Im confused though on lms' stance...because i always see how there is nothing wrong with the tune and how lms says they have thousands of them out there but on the other hand people are being offered tune revisions to remedy the problem
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
Hello, I don't really know you but constantly see you bashing LMS. Have you been tuning ecoboosts long or have a shop? I'd love to have you tune my SHO or maybe even my Lightning.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
It is what it is my good friend AJ,think you need to turn the page. Z :)
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
It is what it is my good friend. Z :)
I suppose...guess i should get over it...it shouldnt bother me because im not even a customer but it bugs me when it looks like lms doesnt even want to give the people a chance when they say they are having issues with the tune..i would be open to ideas and suggestions rather than saying it simply cant be the tune then issue revisions
Quote from: JeffsSport on March 11, 2016, 11:34:10 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
Hello, I don't really know you but constantly see you bashing LMS. Have you been tuning ecoboosts long or have a shop? I'd love to have you tune my SHO or maybe even my Lightning.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
No shop...you wouldnt want a tune from me
I had my fill of the pro tunes out there ...
Been tuning my sho long enough to know a good tune from a bad one...i couldnt tune your lightning, not familiar with it
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:42:34 PM
Quote from: JeffsSport on March 11, 2016, 11:34:10 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
Hello, I don't really know you but constantly see you bashing LMS. Have you been tuning ecoboosts long or have a shop? I'd love to have you tune my SHO or maybe even my Lightning.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
No shop...you wouldnt want a tune from me
I had my fill of the pro tunes out there ...
Been tuning my sho long enough to know a good tune from a bad one...i couldnt tune your lightning, not familiar with it
Oh ok. You've only tuned your SHO?
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Well and my turbo civic and a partial tune on my twin turbo coyote and my old infiniti g and okd wrx
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:40:06 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 11, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
I know a while back they had issues with the CW Tunes which was remedied by closing the throttle blade at various points and open it much slower to keep from having the issue with winter blend gas,just a thought. Z
That excuse would not fly with me...but whatever its not even worth arguing over....my throttle is open all the time regardless of cold temps
Im really getting sick and tired of hearing lms talk about the fuel system being maxxed out on pump gas at the low levels of boost they run on their 3 bar tunes
Maybe the average person will buy that bs but i know better...and when anyone suggest they run harder than lms they will just say its not safe and thats garbage too
Id have much more respect for lms if they just said the level of power that is available with our tune is the most we are comfortable releasing in a mass produced non custom tune rather than saying they are running the fuel system at max capacity which is wrong
It is what it is my good friend. Z :)
I suppose...guess i should get over it...it shouldnt bother me because im not even a customer but it bugs me when it looks like lms doesnt even want to give the people a chance when they say they are having issues with the tune..i would be open to ideas and suggestions rather than saying it simply cant be the tune then issue revisions
They always have done the right thing by me IMHO,thats your perogative. BTW did not even get a welcome from you. Z :(
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 11, 2016, 11:40:06 PM
I suppose...guess i should get over it...it shouldnt bother me because im not even a customer but it bugs me when it looks like lms doesnt even want to give the people a chance when they say they are having issues with the tune..i would be open to ideas and suggestions rather than saying it simply cant be the tune then issue revisions
Even if this is true, makes them at least a 1,000% better than most of the so-called professional tuners out there. Oh the horror stories out there!!!
And, just to be clear, let's let go of this topic, AJ. If you have specific instances you wish to address, from a technical point of view, that's fine. IE, state the problem and state your proposed solution. It may or may not be well received, and that's fine. Obviously, you won't be stopped from having your say (not our intent on this forum), but let people decide what they want after that. If they want to be convinced, they will let you know :)
I usually make fun of cut outs but I think on a turbo car like an eco-boost they might help. I'm not going to be the lab rat though.
Cutouts already proven to work on the EB, Mike (EcoPowerParts) did that on his Flex using electronically controlled units. But yeah, it can be annoying on the street :)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,808.msg7294.html#msg7294 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,808.msg7294.html#msg7294)
Here's what Mike's design looks like. Replaces the third cat, adjustable boost activated (set to start opening where you want and wide open at WOT), and can be set up with a manual solenoid switch to prevent opening at all.
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w596/knot2bfound/Cutout%202013%20SHO%20exhaust/Cutoutasseenfromthetop_zpsfaf5450c.jpg) (http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/knot2bfound/media/Cutout%202013%20SHO%20exhaust/Cutoutasseenfromthetop_zpsfaf5450c.jpg.html)
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w596/knot2bfound/Cutout%202013%20SHO%20exhaust/cutoutsideview_zps97b6d622.jpg) (http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/knot2bfound/media/Cutout%202013%20SHO%20exhaust/cutoutsideview_zps97b6d622.jpg.html)
That cutout looks so bada$$ I'm gonna feel guilty for mounting it underneath my car...if I ever get around to doing it.
whoa, exhaust pr0n