Hello,
Over the last 3 days I've towed my 6000lb travel trailer 1340 miles with my 2012 F-150 Ecoboost. The truck has downpipes and a 91 tow/perf tune. Runs great with and without a trailer.
It's hot, but the truck should be able to handle the temps between 80-90*. While towing on sustained grades in a low gear at around 70mph with high boost, the cylinder head temps will climb rapidly to 275*, at which point I downshift to lower the boost, or slow down.
The truck has so much more power in it, but I feel like I'm having to baby it to keep it from spiking the temps. Once the cylinder head temps reach 280*, the coolant temp gauge on the dash will spike toward the H and once or twice and alert had come up on the dash about reduced power due to overheating. I always back it off, but I'm sure it would overheat completely if I wasn't paying attention.
Here's my theory. I think the stock intercooler is heatsoaking with sustained boost between 15psi and 18psi (here at sea level now). Looking at the intercooler, there's no ducting on the sides between the bumper and intercooler. The path of least resistance is going to be to those spaces, bypassing the intercooler. It really seems like heatsoak because the temps drop with lower gears, which drop the boost.
Has anyone had heatsoaking under similar conditions with these trucks? I'm thinking of making some ducting for the return trip.
Any other obviously this I should check?
Thank you.
BTW, it's really fun to pass people with an F-150 and a big assed trailer. ;)
Is there such an option as a tow package for an F150? What is the tow rating for your F150? What was the grade you were climbing? When did you change the coolant last?
The normal route for the SHO would be to add the Perf Pkg-based oil and trans coolers. That's one possibility. Another is to add a colder TStat (with tune of course). 275F means you have ISSUES. The fans are probably set to come on between 210 and 220F. Are they working right? At what percentage? Are you using premium fuel?
Thermostat Opening Temperatures — 3.5L Gasoline Turbocharged Direct Injection (GTDI)
Starts to open 83.8-90.6°C (183-195°F)
Fully open 98.8°C (210°F)
Trailer Tow Package (required for towing over 5,000 lbs.)
includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness,
upgraded radiator, auxiliary transmission oil cooler, and
SelectShift Automatic® transmission
Max. Trailer Tow Package (restrictions apply; required
for towing over 5,000 lbs.) includes Class IV trailer hitch
receiver; 7-pin wiring harness; upgraded radiator; auxiliary
transmission oil cooler; trailer brake controller; upgraded rear
bumper; SelectShift Automatic transmission; and manual
telescoping/folding trailer tow mirrors with manual glass or
manual telescoping/folding trailer tow mirrors with power,
heated glass, integrated turn signal indicators and security
approach lamps
So at the very least, upgrade the radiator and oil cooler.
Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2017, 05:04:35 AM
Is there such an option as a tow package for an F150? What is the tow rating for your F150? What was the grade you were climbing? When did you change the coolant last?
The normal route for the SHO would be to add the Perf Pkg-based oil and trans coolers. That's one possibility. Another is to add a colder TStat (with tune of course). 275F means you have ISSUES. The fans are probably set to come on between 210 and 220F. Are they working right? At what percentage? Are you using premium fuel?
Thermostat Opening Temperatures — 3.5L Gasoline Turbocharged Direct Injection (GTDI)
Starts to open 83.8-90.6°C (183-195°F)
Fully open 98.8°C (210°F)
Thanks for the responses.
My truck has the Max tow package, which is posted as a 10,500lb rating. Even the basic factory tow comes with a 7500lb rating. The Max tow comes with an oil cooler, heavier springs, towing mirrors, brake controller, and tranny cooler.
The reason I think heatsoaking of the IC is because I have problems witg this in my Talon, which has a large front mount IC in front of the radiator. I've also kept AC on that car.
The IC gets too hot, causing any air flowing through it into the AC condenser (which adds to the problem) to be too hot for the radiator to be effective. Turning off the AC or getting off the boost helps. The IC is pretty ineffective when it's that hot, so it adds to the problem by allowing super hot air into the combustion chamber.
The F-150 is a little different because there's some airflow that gets to the radiator/condenser/oil cooler without going through the IC first. The IC is still in it's path to some extent and the ineffective heatsoaked IC still forced hot air into the combustion chamber.
The coolant was changed fairly recently, maybe 8 mths.
K yeah an IC cooling improver sounds like the way to go if all else checks out. Does yours have the TSB applied?
Also, what are the IAT2 temps.
Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2017, 09:52:10 AM
K yeah an IC cooling improver sounds like the way to go if all else checks out. Does yours have the TSB applied?
Also, what are the IAT2 temps.
My IC has the shroud on the top 1/4, which I think is the TSB.
I haven't been watching IATs, but that's a good idea.
Today we trudged through Southern Oregon into Northern. It was 94+*. When not in boost the IAT2 sits about 20* higher than ambient. When I get above 11psi boost, the IAT2 climbs to 145* or more. At that point the cylinder head temps climb fast and I have to back off.
There is no ducting around the intercooler stock, which blows my mind. I tried to fabricate some ducting out of what I had, but no dice. I think I can just be careful about the temps until I get home, but I'm going to overhaul the airflow to the IC and radiator when I get home. Nevada should be the real PITA.
Good luck, keep us updated. Should be easier to tear into once home.
Who changed the coolant? Did you have the system vacuum bled? It doesn't sound like the boost is overly high to give coolant temp problems....Everybody claims the intercoolers in the F150 to be too efficient so I'm not thinking you have an intercooler problem either
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 24, 2017, 01:43:09 PM
Who changed the coolant? Did you have the system vacuum bled? It doesn't sound like the boost is overly high to give coolant temp problems....Everybody claims the intercoolers in the F150 to be too efficient so I'm not thinking you have an intercooler problem either
Sorry about the delayed response. I guess I need to setup my notification settings...
The dealer changed the coolant 9k miles again when they did the timing chain and phasers under warranty. I don't know if they vacuum bled it at that time.
I don't buy that the F150 intercoolers are efficient. On the way through Nevada, I setup my SCT tuner to display cylinder head temps and IAT2. While cruising at 70mph towing the 6000lb trailer, the IAT2 would be 20-30* above ambient (it was 95* out). When on an incline, the boost would rise above 8psi and the IAT2 would go upwards of 150*. When it crossed 130*, the cylinder head temps would rise quickly and if I didn't let off the throttle and slow down, I would get a display on the dash stating "engine over temp" and "reduced power." The coolant gauge on the dash would be pegged at full hot. It would drop instantly when I let off the gas, but the IAT2 took a long time to come down, leading me to believe the intercooler was heatsoaked. When I pulled over, there was no difference in temps between the turbo side and the intake side of the intercooler. It was equally hot.
I had hours upon hours to observe this and the IAT2 was clearly unmanageable above 8psi. I was able to predict at what point the intercooler would heatsoak and at what temps the cylinder head temps would rise. Sometimes I had to go 50mph to keep temps in check even though I was confident the truck could pull at 80mph.
This was super frustrating considering I have the max tow package. The truck should be able to tow 10,500lbs stock and with a dynoed 294HP and 449Tq at the wheels (at 5k' above sea level), I could barely tow 6000lbs in that heat. In Utah I got so frustrated that I pulled over. I opened the hood and was reminded of the silly band aide Ford placed on the 2012-14 intercoolers to mitigate the condensation issue. They basically blocked off the top 1/4 of the intercooler, raising it's temp so that humidity would stay in a gaseous state and flow through the intercooler instead of collecting in the bottom and then being coughed up into the engine every once in a while causing the infamous stutter.
So I tore off the plastic blocking the top of the intercooler and guess what. The problem was solved, mostly. I could tow in 90*+ heat at 70mph without spiking IAT2 or cylinder head temps. Steep inclines would drive the IAT2 up, but it was much more manageable. When the ambient temps increased to 100*+, I again had to be careful, but it still was not nearly as bad as with the demoralizing intercooler blocking plastic.
When I got home, I searched the internet and found that overheating when towing is common with these trucks because of the crappy intercoolers. So I'll be upgrading to an aftermarket intercooler for a larger margin of safety. It sounds like one of the TSBs that came out from Ford for the stutter instructed service centers to install the intercooler blocking plastic.
The other thing is, there is no ducting or air control from the factory to direct air through the intercooler. If you look at where the lowest pressure areas are around the intercooler, there is no reason why air would pass through the intercooler. It would want to go below it and exit under the truck or around it and into the engine compartment. Mishimoto created an upgraded intercooler with attached air dams to control the flow of air into the intercooler.
So that's the story. I took some logs, but really the problem was so clear that could see it just from hours in the truck. I hope this helps someone else who's scouring the internet for answers.
Definitely document your intercooler upgrade and findings. If that fixes the towing/heat issue, it is a relatively cheap fix!
Quote from: SHOdded on June 29, 2017, 06:09:59 PM
Definitely document your intercooler upgrade and findings. If that fixes the towing/heat issue, it is a relatively cheap fix!
Yeah will do!!
I'm not to familiar with the Transverse but do you have "Flaps" by the Grille?
Quote from: ZSHO on June 29, 2017, 08:47:06 PM
I'm not to familiar with the Transverse but do you have "Flaps" by the Grille?
As in ducting from the bumper? No. There's nothing that prevents air from going to a lower pressure area.
Attached is a photo of my ducting mock-up.
Are you thinking of the grille shutters, Z, that are used to speed up warmup?
Quote from: SHOdded on June 29, 2017, 10:03:03 PM
Are you thinking of the grille shutters, Z, that are used to speed up warmup?
Correct! If closed will increase IAT Temps. Z
Looks like the 2015 MY has grille shutters, have to check on previous model years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uIy2Ofe9eo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uIy2Ofe9eo)
Seems like it was introduced for the 2015 MY, and works this way:
Ford F-150 trucks equipped with EcoBoost engines also will benefit from standard Active Grille Shutters. Active Grille Shutters stay open when extra engine cooling is needed, such as during low-speed stop-and-go driving or while working in hot weather. They automatically close to reduce aerodynamic drag at cruising speed.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2014/01/13/all-new-ford-f-150-redefines-full-size-trucks.html (https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2014/01/13/all-new-ford-f-150-redefines-full-size-trucks.html)
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099158_2015-ford-f-150-air-curtain-cuts-aerodynamic-drag (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099158_2015-ford-f-150-air-curtain-cuts-aerodynamic-drag)
But the 2012 definitely has no AGS feature.
Guy talks about towing with his 2013 EB F150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXP-4FCexc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXP-4FCexc)
Mentions shifting to a lower gear, lower boost to keep the temps down. Has a 5Star tow tune.
Wow, look at the difference in claimed AIT reduction in these two Mishimoto intercoolers:
2011-14
https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2011-2014.html (https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2011-2014.html)
2015+
https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2015-2017.html (https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2015-2017.html)
Quote from: SHOdded on June 30, 2017, 03:44:29 AM
Wow, look at the difference in claimed AIT reduction in these two Mishimoto intercoolers:
2011-14
https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2011-2014.html (https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2011-2014.html)
2015+
https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2015-2017.html (https://www.mishimoto.com/ford-f150-ecoboost-intercooler-2015-2017.html)
If they made one for the SHO that cooled that much, I would be all over it!
Quote from: FearlessAZ on June 30, 2017, 07:16:41 AM
If they made one for the SHO that cooled that much, I would be all over it!
Would be like a line for a new Star Wars movie if that happened!
Quote from: SHOdded on June 29, 2017, 10:03:03 PM
Are you thinking of the grille shutters, Z, that are used to speed up warmup?
Oh I know what you're talking about now. No those grill shutters came on later years. Mine doesn't have those.
Quote from: SHOdded on June 30, 2017, 03:14:26 AM
Guy talks about towing with his 2013 EB F150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXP-4FCexc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXP-4FCexc)
Mentions shifting to a lower gear, lower boost to keep the temps down. Has a 5Star tow tune.
Yeah I saw that one. My truck would be able to handle that short grade without a problem as well. You have to remember, I was towing through the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada mountain ranges. The grades are sustained for miles. I couldn't see his IAT's in that video, but I suspect they were rising and if that grade were to keep up for another 5 miles, he would have a problem. When searching the F150 forums, it sounds like people have had this problem stock and on other tunes as well.
Downshifting is how I lower the temps. It seems like once the boost was below 8psi the intercooler could recover and temps would slowly decrease.
I made some ducting from the front bumper to the FMIC. I used white zip ties to make it flashy. :)
I'm towing 150 miles in the mountains today, so hopefully I'll see some difference in the IATs. Although it's only 70* today.
Lets see if homemade wins over FMC!
It definitely looks much cleaner now and hoping you have a smooth Cool journey. Z
I thought I'd update everyone on this. The ducting with the stock IC helped, but temps would still climb when towing up steep inclines. I found a used Wagner IC and bought that.
Wow. I can't believe how the Wagner changed the IAT2! Towing through the Colorado mountains and over to Moab, UT with 102* on the display, I feel like I thoroughly tested the new IC. Temps are now 20-25* above ambient temperature at the IAT2. With the stock IC temps were 50-60* above ambient when towing. The cylinder head temps now climb more slowly. Keeping the truck out of the red is much more manageable now. It goes up hills at 70mph and as long as I drop a gear or two manually, the coolant temps stay out of the red.
I still think the cooling system in these trucks is inadequate. I'd love to stay in 6th gear and keep the RPMs low when towing because I have the power to do so, but I have to downshift to keep the temps low. I'm going to try a pusher fan on the front of the AC condenser first, but eventually will probably upgrade radiators. BTW, I have the Max Tow radiator, which is the largest stock one.
The added power of the Wagner IC is nice too. ;)
That's great to hear man!!.Z :thumb:
Well ... Keeping the gear out of 6th on long hills is a good thing as it saves the trans ...
Keeping it cool with Wagner :thumb: