Hello All,
So I finally scheduled my PTU flush for today with my mechanic (same one that changed my master cylinder) so we shall see how it goes. I am asking him to save the old fluid or take a picture of it so we can add it to the archives here. I am right at 38K miles, so we shall see just how bad it is. This is definitely good piece of mind for keeping the PTU in top shape.
Updates to follow...
Can the pics also show the opened PTU with everything in situ?
Do you know how he plans to flush the PTU fluid?
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 15, 2014, 03:56:50 PM
Can the pics also show the opened PTU with everything in situ?
Quote from: SHOdded on April 15, 2014, 04:30:16 PM
Do you know how he plans to flush the PTU fluid?
Ooooh... hadn't thought of that Manu... is the dealer gonna suck out the fluid and refill, ...or... take it off... open it... clean it... fill it... then reinstall?
He will be sucking out the old and putting new in, so no dissasembly pics :) I guess it is not a true flush.
I am about to have this done with my next scheduled maintenance, what is the forum's recommended replacement fluid? I am a fan of Amsoil products.
Royal Purple is the most common replacement brand used by forum members, 1 or 2 folks talked about going at it with AMSOIL, don't know how they are faring so far.
Ok, back with news, yes indeed the old gear lube is nasty sludge. My mechanic was shocked at two things, the condition of the lube at only 38K miles, and the very small amount of fluid the PTU holds. He did the procedure twice, and he still recommends in a month or so to bring it back and have it done one more time to get the remaining sludge out. They did provide me with a sample of the used fluid, I will snap a few pics here soon and post it. I would recommend every 30K miles at most for PTU fluid change (20K if you track the car or drive hard).
Let me guess - consistency of pudding? Lol
Chalk up another who thinks the capacity of fluid housed in the PTU is utterly insane.
Going to perform this little procedure pretty soon myself. I'm at 12.5K miles now. Thinking about making 15K my interval.
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I would like to see how fluid is holding up in 2013+ PP cars as the PTU is water cooled. I have for a while now thought of ways to increase capacity and add cooling to the PTU in my car. And I believe it could be done, with the fitment of a drain plug would give a way to add a cooler. Which would add a little more capacity is just doing that, but what I visualize is putting on rear dif cooler on the PTU. Which consists of a thermostatically controlled oil pump and cooler. Other simpler alternatives to test is better oils and friction modifiers. I have read about product recently that I have thought about giving a try. But unfortunately having the time and funds and priority for me lately I am lacking. Plus injuring my hand recently doesn't help either.
I need to do mine it's a 2013 PP I need a good / simple how to. I have 30k on the odometer.
From looking diagrams on fordparts.com on the 2013 pp it looks like it may actually have drain plug. I don't see a fill plug, but it could be filled thru breather tube or thru the drain.
68_GT, looking forward to your drain-and-fill results!
Crash, sorry to hear about your hand, hope it goes to 110% soon!
any links to completing that job ? Wonder if I can do it on ramps in my driveway ? need some fresh Mobil 1 while I'm at it.
Thanks shodded! Sorry 68 no how-to I am aware for this yet. But can't hurt to get under there and have a look.
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Quote from: 68_GT on April 15, 2014, 09:26:56 PM
any links to completing that job ? Wonder if I can do it on ramps in my driveway ? need some fresh Mobil 1 while I'm at it.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=1706.0
"How-To" PTU Fluid Exchange - glock-coma
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+boost
more to come.....
Yea, im also doing this very soon. At 43k now... got a qt of Red Line fluid, just need to get the mightyvac or take to the dealer, will prob do rdu at same time,.
Quote from: glock-coma on April 15, 2014, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: 68_GT on April 15, 2014, 09:26:56 PM
any links to completing that job ? Wonder if I can do it on ramps in my driveway ? need some fresh Mobil 1 while I'm at it.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=1706.0
"How-To" PTU Fluid Exchange - glock-coma
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+boost
more to come.....
This doesn't apply for 2013+ PP cars.
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Ok, here is a crappy photo, but you get the gist... (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/gallery/221_16_04_14_7_50_32.jpeg)
As you can see, the sludge is still stuck in the bottom of the Gatorade bottle, and it took awhile to slide down to the side when I took the pic. It is not as bad as some I have seen on here, but it is not good.
I have noticed a few things, and it may be in my head... but the car seems quieter overall, and as one other poster on this board said... more "free wheeling" with less resistance down hills and less throttle input needed to keep constant speed.
Quote from: jcl78 on April 16, 2014, 10:53:26 AM
Ok, here is a crappy photo, but you get the gist... (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/gallery/221_16_04_14_7_50_32.jpeg)
As you can see, the sludge is still stuck in the bottom of the Gatorade bottle, and it took awhile to slide down to the side when I took the pic. It is not as bad as some I have seen on here, but it is not good.
I have noticed a few things, and it may be in my head... but the car seems quieter overall, and as one other poster on this board said... more "free wheeling" with less resistance down hills and less throttle input needed to keep constant speed.
I am stunned! Thanks for the pic jcl! It certainly looks like the oil was failing.
Since the PTU was not removed for cleaning, can you describe the flush process in a little more detail...cleaning agent... number of times flushed....how much was used?
Sorry if I missed it, but what was the charge?
Sure Mac! Well, I started by sending my mechanic the write-up posted above by glock-coma (thanks glock!) and asking him if it was something he wanted to get into. He agreed, and followed the write up. Basically:
Drove the car around turns to warm up the fluid in the PTU.
Remove the fill plug.
Siphon out as much fluid as he could with a vacuum brake bleeder kit.
Pumped in redline 75W-140 until it poured out, bringing with it more sludge.
Did another siphon round, sucking out the new and old fluid.
Pumped in more until it looked much better and replaced the fill plug.
However, after all this, he recommended bringing it in in a month or so and doing the whole thing over, being that it was so bad. His reasoning is that with the new fluid in there sloshing around, it will gather more of the sludge and we can purge it again. I believe I will be doing it again.
The cost was $139, which I believe is fair for the time that he put into it, and a ton of redline 75W-140.
Quote from: jcl78 on April 16, 2014, 11:23:42 AM
Sure Mac! Well, I started by sending my mechanic the write-up posted above by glock-coma (thanks glock!) and asking him if it was something he wanted to get into. He agreed, and followed the write up. Basically:
Drove the car around turns to warm up the fluid in the PTU.
Remove the fill plug.
Siphon out as much fluid as he could with a vacuum brake bleeder kit.
Pumped in redline 75W-140 until it poured out, bringing with it more sludge.
Did another siphon round, sucking out the new and old fluid.
Pumped in more until it looked much better and replaced the fill plug.
However, after all this, he recommended bringing it in in a month or so and doing the whole thing over, being that it was so bad. His reasoning is that with the new fluid in there sloshing around, it will gather more of the sludge and we can purge it again. I believe I will be doing it again.
The cost was $139, which I believe is fair for the time that he put into it, and a ton of redline 75W-140.
Many thanks jcl... :beer2:
I also think $139 is a really fair price. (my wifes oil changes in her F250 exceed $100).
I also agree with your mechanic's advice as a bit of driving will likely loosen up more sludge that can be removed.
Clearly the maintenance on PTU oil should be done at shorter intervals... most have felt that 25K miles was the mark.... Time will tell as more of us get this done!
Wow, got me thinking I might do mine at 15,000 miles just to be anal... :)
How many quarts of gear oil do you need to have in order to do the flush?
Similar method to flushing cooling systems at home...
Definitely seems like the smartest flushing method, with keeping the PTU installed.
I was under my SHO last week for LOF, and I didn't spot a drain or a fill anywhere. That thing is nestled pretty far up there.
But, it was dark and I was tired.
I'm going to go back and take a look this weekend.
Looks easy to do, in regards to work space, with either the car on ramps or stands.
I thought 13+ PP featured PTU aux water cooling? It's the RDU which is cooled (oil cooler I presume?)?
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So what are dealers around the country charging for this service?
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on April 16, 2014, 04:14:18 PM
Similar method to flushing cooling systems at home...
Definitely seems like the smartest flushing method, with keeping the PTU installed.
I was under my SHO last week for LOF, and I didn't spot a drain or a fill anywhere. That thing is nestled pretty far up there.
But, it was dark and I was tired.
I'm going to go back and take a look this weekend.
Looks easy to do, in regards to work space, with either the car on ramps or stands.
I thought 13+ PP featured PTU aux water cooling? It's the RDU which is cooled (oil cooler I presume?)?
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Yes 2013+ PP cars, PTU has water cooler oil cooler. RDU has no cooler. From looking at drawing online of your PTU looks to have a drain plug, on the pan side of the PTU. However there doesn't appear to have a fill plug, so filling would have to be done thru drain or thru breather tube. By injecting thru opening with the appropriate amount of oil.
Should make it easier to flush the 2013+ PP, if it is even necessary. Still need data. Still in the dark about 2013+ non-PP, safe assumption that 2010-12 rules still apply.
Yes non PP 2013+ have the same PTU as 2010-12's
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Quote from: Needmoreboost on April 16, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
So what are dealers around the country charging for this service?
A lot of them won't even do it...mine wouldn't. Said Ford considered it a "non-serviceable" part.
Quote from: JohnnyBravo on April 16, 2014, 03:48:02 PM
How many quarts of gear oil do you need to have in order to do the flush?
Bump. I'm at 64k and haven't done it yet, but talked to my mechanic yesterday about it.
Quote from: Kolk1 on April 17, 2014, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: JohnnyBravo on April 16, 2014, 03:48:02 PM
How many quarts of gear oil do you need to have in order to do the flush?
Bump. I'm at 64k and haven't done it yet, but talked to my mechanic yesterday about it.
got this info from another EB message board, dated fromlast year:
Originally posted by First-SHOView Post
What are the factory spec weights and how many qts each for the rear diff and PTU?
Just did some searching and found:
PTU uses 1.1 pints (less than 1 qt) of either 75w140 or 80w140
Rear Diff uses 2.3 pints (less than 2 qts) of 75w90 or 80w90
Fill plug is on passenger side,would it help to have passenger side of car jacked up higher than driver side so you could put in a little extra fluid before putting plug back in?
You need definitely don't want to put extra in. It will come out the breather. Car needs to be level to properly fill.
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Why is it spec'd so heavy?
I think it's pretty clear that high temps and/or overheating is what's degradating the gear oils so badly.
So, hasn't there been a 13+ PP owner who's swapped in new oil?
I'm going to swap to Redline 75W140. Has a high VI rating, and is otherwise recognized as a good gear oil.
However, I saw a spec sheet on Ford's Motorcraft factory fill, and it looked pretty good.
I think overall this can be attributed to a poor cooling design - sparse oil, no oil and no aux water cooling (on non PPs).
In the next couple months, I'll be at 15k miles, at which time, I'm going to flush, and see just how well the water cooling does for the oil on PP equipped cars.
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IHG... I'll be really interested in what you find. I've currently planned 25K flush and change in my non-PP SHO, but it just a guess on my part for now. Seems only the failed PTU's show up for analysis.
I went by my dealer today they didn't want my money for a PTU oil change. They said my SHO is good for a long time on everything. They stated they only recommend chaning PTU oil if there's a problem. I said but ecoboost forums said ! lol no but I did tell him I have seen some ugly stuff on internet forums but they stick with that they are trained / told.
I wanted to do my PP PTU this weekend since I'm at 31K miles but I'm going out of town so I don't know when I can get to it, but it will be in the next few days / week max.
Quote from: 68_GT on April 17, 2014, 05:42:18 PM
I went by my dealer today they didn't want my money for a PTU oil change. They said my SHO is good for a long time on everything. They stated they only recommend chaning PTU oil if there's a problem. I said but ecoboost forums said ! lol no but I did tell him I have seen some ugly stuff on internet forums but they stick with that they are trained / told.
I wanted to do my PP PTU this weekend since I'm at 31K miles but I'm going out of town so I don't know when I can get to it, but it will be in the next few days / week max.
Lol but they will be fine swapping out your PTU when it destroys itself. I recommend you find a reputable local shop to do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3EOtV4DbwM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3EOtV4DbwM)
Yeah, you can always find somebody outside of the Ford house to take care of this service.
Interestingly, it seems almost universal that the Ford house service departments believe that these things needn't be tampered with.
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Quote from: Night Hawk on April 17, 2014, 06:14:11 PM
Lol but they will be fine swapping out your PTU when it destroys itself. [/quote]
right on lol..... I didn't feel like bothering with them I just wanted to ask and see. I'll do it myself here pretty quick.
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on April 17, 2014, 05:13:23 PM
I'm going to swap to Redline 75W140. Has a high VI rating, and is otherwise recognized as a good gear oil.
However, I saw a spec sheet on Ford's Motorcraft factory fill, and it looked pretty good.
I see Royal Purple, Amsoil and Redline mentioned. What's the thoughts about Mobil 1?
The PTU and rear axle don't need friction modifier do they?
Quote from: SHO-Pa on April 23, 2014, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on April 17, 2014, 05:13:23 PM
I'm going to swap to Redline 75W140. Has a high VI rating, and is otherwise recognized as a good gear oil.
However, I saw a spec sheet on Ford's Motorcraft factory fill, and it looked pretty good.
I see Royal Purple, Amsoil and Redline mentioned. What's the thoughts about Mobil 1?
The PTU and rear axle don't need friction modifier do they?
M1 is good. Royal Purple beats it on all five major characteristics tested in objective studies... just Google it. A lot of folks like AmsOil too
What Royal Purple weight and amount is recommended ? Going to get some tomorrow. Planning to do mine this weekend.
Quote from: 68_GT on April 23, 2014, 10:58:14 PM
What Royal Purple weight and amount is recommended ? Going to get some tomorrow. Planning to do mine this weekend.
PTU 18 OZ. 75/140
RDU 2.4 pints 75/90
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+boost
more to come.....
Just FYI, my Ford dealer did the change without an hassles, and is a BG service dealer, so after removing the old grease, they did a BG service cleaning of the PTU..refilled with Motorcraft Syn....I have read in several places that Motorcraft synthetic is amoung the best. Since I plan on having this service done about every 25K, I was OK with using Motorcraft. When I have the transmission and rear diff done (at 30K) I plan on using Royal Purple for replacement. I believe my cost for draining, BG cleaning, and refill was in the $130.00 range...I was OK with that. Service Manager said the old fluid was beginning to break down, but wasn't terrible.
OK just picked up the Royal Purple oil, hand pump, and clear measuring cup / drain from Advanced Auto for $38. I'll try to knock this out over the weekend and have a look at the PP PTU original oil at 31K miles.
68_GT, how did it go? I'm wanting to do this, but haven't seen much written about doing it on a '13 PP car.
my Ford dealer wouldn't do it sorry I'm at a loss of words as to what to do. They claim it's not a service part and should be left alone. It was suggested to me to go to a more performance oriented Ford dealer. It just pissed me off so I gave up on it for now until a solution comes up, or I make it by a much farther dealer to try.
I have RP on the way. I'll post a pic of the old oil once I get it on Wednesday.
That's this weekend's project. I am going to grab a sample and send it off to Blackstone to see if the lube is really as bad and worn out as we think.
I'm going to put some Mobil 1 in there b/c that's what I have on the shelf. :)
I'll post info when the job is done this weekend.
(As an update to the 10k oil change interval, my OLM is still going with that frequency. I have about 3k on the oil now so I'll sample (or change) it at 7500 (or thereabouts) and see what the results are then.)
Would this be the first-ever Blackstone on PTU fluid? Hopefully won't find any metal shavings or anything, just normal breakdown from usage!
Quote from: 68_GT on July 07, 2014, 07:32:00 PM
my Ford dealer wouldn't do it sorry I'm at a loss of words as to what to do. They claim it's not a service part and should be left alone. It was suggested to me to go to a more performance oriented Ford dealer. It just pissed me off so I gave up on it for now until a solution comes up, or I make it by a much farther dealer to try.
Funny, I spoke to mine recently and they said they would do it. There is a procedure for PP cars with liquid cooling. Unfortunately they also wanted $300 to do the service lol. I haven't made my mind up yet. I am still planning on trying it myself.
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it's impossible.
as far as I could tell anwyay :) how do we get Ford's procedure for this ? is there a service number or something I can quote. I'd pay $300 I guess :(
Quote from: 68_GT on July 09, 2014, 07:43:34 PM
it's impossible.
as far as I could tell anwyay :) how do we get Ford's procedure for this ? is there a service number or something I can quote. I'd pay $300 I guess :(
I'm at my dealer tomorrow and ask if he will give me the exact procedure. I know someone on this forum has access to the shop manual, maybe they could post a reference page or number? I know that if you don't have the fill and drain plug most dealers wont want to touch it, it's supposed to be a life time fluid in that case. The 13+ with PP are the only ones that do. In the owners manual there is even a reference to a monitor that will tell you when to change the fluid on the PP cars. Why the hell did they put in a drain plug and a monitor if you aren't supposed to change the fluid?
From the owners manual
he Power Transfer Unit (PTU) does not require any normal scheduled maintenance. Do not check or change the PTU lubricant unless the unit has been submerged in water or shows signs of leakageThe Power Transfer Unit (PTU) in some Taurus SHOTM vehicles is electronically monitored and notifies the driver of required service by displaying the message Change AWD/4WD Power Transfer Unit Lubein the information display. The PTU lube will be more likely to requirea fluid change if the vehicle has experienced extended periods of extreme/severe duty cycle driving. Do not check or change the PTU lubricant unless the unit has been submerged in water, shows signs of leakage or a message indicating required service is displayed. Contact your authorized dealer for service and to reset the PTU lube life monitor.
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Really thinking of tackling this during the weekend when I change the oil. I've read through some other threads on this and is it suggested to just fill with same amount you pull out.
Manual says 18 ounces. And I assume that's close to the fill hole like 99% of the other designs like this. I stuck a camera in the PTU and it looks to be free of any paste like stuff. I can see little channels/inward oil baffles or cooling fins, inside. I can see the oil as well and there is more to be pulled out. Just trying to find the right little angle to get into it.
Got mcgyver like with the camera...nice...wonder if jacking car up higher (probably take more than we can do) on opposite side of drain would help
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/10/uje2eny9.jpg)
I have 8 ounces out so far.
Good stuff!!!
Are you planning to just match the amount taken out for filling back up?
I'm going to fill it I think... by the looks of the components it looks like it needs to be.
This is a pain in the ass no doubt. You need thin arms for this. It was easier to put headers on my stang than this... or maybe my tolerance for these kinda things has grown thin.
Would a mechanics well be helpful in doing this. Have one in the pole barn that I haven't used yet.
Think I read somewhere you can overfill these...not good...but I've read so much on this car it's all blending together and I could be wrong
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 09, 2014, 09:58:41 PM
Would a mechanics well be helpful in doing this. Have one in the pole barn that I haven't used yet.
Most definitely. I can barely get my arms twisted in the right way. It's frustrating.
Ok...just read to keep it level when filling...good luck...35k on mine now and it's bothering me to see what it looks like
Thick sludge on the plug.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/10/beveza4a.jpg)
I put in 10 ounces to the top. Seems correct now.
No need to service...hmmmm...
That's got to improve performance somewhat
Congrats on the successful project...