I'm getting the intermittent low oil pressure light on my Flex now. I was all excited that with the new PCV parts, catch can removed and new turbos, the engine wasn't consuming oil like crazy any more. Two days ago when the engine was hot, the oil pressure light popped on intermittently at idle. I went out yesterday and bought a BWD brand sensor and swapped it in but got the same issue after the engine heated up.
I stuck a mechanical gauge on there and drove it around with it sitting on the windshield. Gauge generally reads 15 psi at idle and occasionally drops down to 12-13.
Question is, is 12-13 psi too low? Ford spec says minimum 30 psi at 1500 rpm, and I'm close to 40 psi at that point. If this is normal, I was thinking of swapping in the Airtex/Wells PS406 EOP switch because that one's calibrated to close at 6 psi instead of 15 (I'm assuming 15 psi is the OEM spec given my results with the mechanical gauge, can't find the spec on those anywhere). I'm also about to change the oil again to see if that helps bump that psi number up a little bit. Was planning on doing that anyway because of the new turbos.
Any thoughts?
Changed the oil. Reading went up to about 16-17 when hot, so not much change, but I'm guessing it won't trigger the light until I put some miles on it.
Seems OK to me after the OC. What oil/filter are you using, did you put in the same stuff as before? Could've been a faulty oil filter ADBV.
I was running the Motorcraft FL500S and I put the cheap Supertech full synthetic in there because I didn't want to be flushing expensive Mobil 1 down the drain if it kept eating oil. Might have been the issue here causing low oil pressure with the cheap oil. Seems like it's not consuming oil any more though, so I was planning to go back to the Mobil 1, but Walmart was out of 5w-30. I bought the Pennzoil full synthetic high mileage instead, and stayed with the FL500S filter. Hoping it's not diluting the oil with fuel or coolant because the level isn't dropping now.
Best you can do is keep an eye on it, and not worry too much :) If the turbo piping and CAC are staying clean that would add a measure of security. At some point you might want to do a compression check also.
How's vacuum by the oil dip stick? Z
Did a compression check when I replaced the turbos. Wasn't super alarming at first. 150's across the board except a 180 on one cylinder. 180 wet test in all cylinders. Problem is, blow by is still bad enough that when I had the catch can on with that check valve, it was pressurizing the crank case at idle and blowing smoke out the exhaust at higher rpm. Returned to stock PCV and that stopped. Just did the dip stick check now per ZSHO and it is not drawing a vacuum there. Plugged up the clean side PCV during, still no vacuum at the dipstick tube. Turbos are still blowing a little oil, just not enough to smoke (all oil passages in and out are immaculate). I think I need a new motor very soon, especially now with the low oil pressure issue.
I heard somewhere that a 13+ motor can be swapped into a 10-12 without any modifications, just that some parts off my motor would need to be swapped onto it. Can anyone verify this?
The 10-12 motors are like unicorns. Local shop wants 6k+ to swap in a used one, he's a rebuilder and says he can't even get a kit to do this motor. About 2/3 of that cost is the motor itself. Dealer wants about 1500 more to do a new one with fresh everything, so I'll probably go with them if I get backed into that corner. Don't have time to swap this motor myself though because my wife is due in the next few weeks, and I really need this car to be working right now. I see used low mile 13+ motors on eBay all day for less than 2 grand. Would be nice if one of those would work then I could find someone more competitive on labor to drop it in there.
bamsho had at one point listed the parts needing to be swapped. Hope he chimes in! Cam & crank sensors, IIRC.
This is the thread I reference:
http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/#post-1443882 (http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/#post-1443882)
My 2011 just seized with 62,000 miles. Thank God we bought the extended warranty. Big problem is "unicorn factor" of those engines. I have a suspicion that the reason why they are scarce is that a lot of the 2011's self destructed.
I'm getting that impression too Jimmyb. Thanks for that link SHOdded. I hope bamsho chimes in too because the OP in that thread never went through with the swap. Don't know how it would've gone.
Okay, so I'm waiting on some info from people over at shoforum but I did some research on my own that I think it confirms what BamSHO said in his post originally. I looked up the part numbers on fordpartsgiant for the cam sensors, crank sensors and the heads for 10-14, because apparently the only thing major that's changed physically with these motors over the years between 10-15 is the heads, timing chains and gears, and the crank and cam sensors. Site wouldn't give me parts info for 2015 model year, so I don't know what the PN's did after that. Here are the part numbers:
Cylinder Heads
2010-11 MY AA5Z-6049-C (passenger) and AA5Z-6049-D (driver) 07/2009-12/2010
2011-14 MY AA5Z-6049-E (passenger, replaced by AA5Z-6049-G) and AA5Z-6049-F (driver) 12/2010-
Cam Sensors
2010-12 MY AT4Z-6B288-A 05/2008-
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6B288-A 02/2012-
Crank Sensor
2010-12 MY AA5Z-6C315-A
2013-14 MY BL3Z-6C315-A
Short Block
2010 MY AA5Z-6009-A
2010-14 MY AA5Z-6009-B
So it looks like even though they changed the heads halfway through the 2011 model year (mine current ones are the early ones because build date is before 12/2010), they continued to use the same cam sensors on the new heads, and the crank sensors stayed the same as well until they went to the 3-wire setup for 2013 models, but the heads themselves didn't change. Short blocks are the same from 10-14 (except they show two for the 2010 MY, but earlier PN is obsolete, therefore interchangeable). This seems to confirm what he's staying, so I think it's a go. Now I just need to wait until I get my oil analysis back to be sure the low pressure isn't just from fuel or coolant in the oil.
Had a new problem pop up today. Was driving to the grocery store, taking it easy of course, and I stopped at a light. Engine began to misfire really bad and CEL started to flash. I had FORscan hooked up and running when this happened (I've been monitoring for the past week) and it showed a -2 on cylinder 4 for misfire and I could see intermittent -1 on cylinders 1 and 2, but nothing steady. I was half a block from the store, so I drove it there and went shopping. Came back out and started the car to see if maybe I had a fouled plug that had dried out enough to fire. Engine cranked for a while without firing then finally caught. CEL was now on constant with continuing misfire but misfires slowly began to smooth out and disappeared. Decided to drive it home then, seemed to be running smooth.
Got home and found the following codes when I had a chance to look at them all.
-P00C2, Turbocharger/Supercharger Bypass Valve B Control Circuit High (not sure if this relates, but it's been there since I put the new turbos on, and doesn't seem to effect BOV function)
-P00C6, Fuel Rail Pressure Too Low - Engine Cranking (thinking this might have been a lingering issue that finally threw a code, maybe diluting oil with fuel from a leaking injector)
-P0150, O2 Circuit (Bank 2, Sensor 1) -Previously set DTC - Not Present at time of Request (probably caused by dead Cylinder #4
-P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected (this is self-explanatory)
-P0316 - Misfire Detected On Startup (First 1000 Revolutions) (this is probably from the previous startup at the store. It missed for a little while after it caught then it smoothed out after about 10 seconds of running)
I also pulled the plug on cylinder 4 to read it. It looked okay. It was a little on the light colored side, so I'm thinking lean condition, but definitely no signs of fouling. Maybe cylinder 4 injector is failing, leaking down when the engine is off causing my oil to dilute, which maybe cause the low oil pressure condition too?
Anything else I should look at in the fuel system that would cause the initial cranking fuel rail pressure to be low like this along with this type of misfire?
Just figured out I can data log what my sensors are doing on FORscan. If I've can be logging the next time this happens, which PID's should I include, or should I just do a huge data dump and include them all?
http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-2#post-1467785 (http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-2#post-1467785)
QuoteGot a few tidbits. We have good memories, but sometimes, their short:
They changed cylinder heads mid 2011 model year (along with timing gear), but they kept running the same everything else, including the bottom end, as short block stays same throughout (except for early 2010 PN that is obsolete). Cam and crank sensors didn't change until 2013 MY, so all of those sensors should interchange with all year heads and bottom end, because they kept the heads the same when they went to the new sensors.
I do remember there was a small program for 13 MY on the GTDI but don't rely on my memory for the full details. The cam cover change from aluminum to plastic was a running change 15MY action. The plastic covers needed an extra boss in the cylinder heads so the cyl heads changed, but aluminum covers can be fitted to either level of cylinder head. There were also changes to the cam sensors and I believe the crank sensor too. The crank sensor also had a corresponding change to an HDR wheel with more teeth (Made common with TiDI). The sensors fit in the same sized boss in the cyl heads and rear seal retainer so can be interchanged but of course the correct wire harness and PCM need to be used to match the sensors. The 13MY wire harness and PCM had numerous small changes as well. I recall there were changes in the oil pan to improve oil surge performance on the 2013MY but externally the oil pans will look and fit the same. Another action taken around that time was to move from fabricated exhaust manifolds to cast ones. The cast ones required a different calibration to over fuel the engine under extended periods of high load to prevent the cast manifolds going over temp and cracking. I would stick with the fabricated manifolds if you have them.
The only GTDI engines with oil coolers are the police spec engines and the SHO ordered with the "track pack". The cooler used is an oil to coolant type that tees into the coolant supply, there's no oil to air heat exchanger that will interfere with the ACC at the front of the car. You are correct the cooler could bolt on to any SHO but the correct coolant hoses and OFA would also be required.
If the owner is reasonably handy and swaps over the ancillaries from the failed 11MY engine to the 2013 I think it ought to work. But my memory comes with no guarantees. I imagine 2013 engines are easier to find as by 2013 the engine was being used in the explorer sport and the volumes had increased significantly.
http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-2#post-1467791 (http://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-2#post-1467791)
QuoteThe HDR wheel in assembly is on the flywheel end, used to spin the motor. We add and remove it in the engine plant. I'm not sure what happens to this area in body and assembly, but the HDR changed on the SHO in 2015 to same one the f150 uses. I believe if you use your flywheel, and all components distal to it on the transmission side, you will be fine.
Responses by shoblock on shoforum
Quote from: RandR10 on February 13, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
Just figured out I can data log what my sensors are doing on FORscan. If I've can be logging the next time this happens, which PID's should I include, or should I just do a huge data dump and include them all?
Look at one of StealBlue's SCT logs, and attempt to duplicate in Forscan. Probably the easiest way to go.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7437.msg113188.html#msg113188 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7437.msg113188.html#msg113188)
So here's the latest update:
http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-3#post-1470834 (http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/2010-to-2015-sho-engine-swap.131474/page-3#post-1470834)
QuoteHey everybody, I know it's been a while but I wanted to bump the thread to give you all an update on how this went. My wife had the baby and after a week with him we realized he was going to be as easy to deal with as they come, and so we decided that I would do the engine swap myself. After three weeks of intermittent work the engine is in and it's running perfect. Pretty much everything shoblock said was true. The cam and crank sensors were 3 wire vs. my 2 wire sensors and they just bolted up. Not that I was supposed to get any of this with my purchase, but the turbos are a bolt on affair from the 2015 Explorer interceptor to my steel manifolds. The compressor housing from my spent turbo bolted right to the cracked turbo, so this got me the second turbo (instead of just the front one). As he said as well, the poly valve covers would not completely bolt to my old heads (I put them on because I want to salvage what I can of the take out motor, so I'm keeping it clean) due to a missing boss. The cast aluminum covers however just bolted up to the newer heads just fine.
During assembly I was thinking about saving some time and just using the cast exhaust manifolds because the steel ones don't look like they flow any better (and cast is usually quieter), but the rear one was cracked by the collision that cracked the turbo, so I had to use mine instead. One minor detail that's different between the two is that my turbos had brackets that held them in place, but they deleted this with the cast manifolds on the Explorer and there is no place to bolt the brackets on those turbos. There's a big old lever of exhaust tubing and turbo charger hanging from that steel manifold, so I'm planning to weld a bracket to each exhaust pipe and bolt each to a bell housing bolt to keep it from torquing on the manifolds during acceleration.
The oil cooler was a bolt on affair. I used the non-turbo tow package lower radiator hose and it worked fine. One issue was that the hose wasn't designed to clear the turbo-to-intercooler flex pipe, so it was squishing it a little. I fixed this by pulling it toward the cooling fans with a zip tie and it clears the flex pipe fine now. It's an extremely tight fit and very busy in that area now, you literally couldn't squeeze a hand through there anywhere, but it's working just fine so far.
Another few minor details that are different are as follows.
-The MAP sensor is held on with only one bolt instead of two, which I found interesting, considering that the same part number is cast into both intake manifolds and the MAP itself is the same part number and it plugs into my harness. Still bothers me for some reason though ;).
-The junkyard motor shipped with coil packs, and these were also a no-go. Just like the cam and crank sensors, they are three wires instead of two, so they don't interchange. I'm not sure when they went to these, but in 2015MY they're for sure different than the 2011MY.
-The Interceptor Utility motor I got had an extra heater hose port that protrudes from the front of the motor under the throttle body below where the upper radiator hose attaches. I don't know what it's for, but I'm guessing maybe a PTU cooler or something of that nature due to the HD designation of the interceptor application. In order to delete it completely, it looked like I would have to remove one of the heads to get the coolant tube out, so I just plugged it instead.
-The oil pan looks a bit deeper. I wasn't sure if I was just seeing things, but when I filled it with oil, it took another half quart than my old motor (a full 6 quarts instead of 5.5). I was worried that maybe the dip stick was wrong, so I looked up capacity on the 2015 Explorer and sure enough it's 6 quarts. This is a big plus IMO, and there are zero clearance issues in the Flex.
Now that it's in and running I wanted to say thank you, thank you , thank you for all the help, especially shoblock, and to SHOdded for putting me on to this forum.
Quote from: SHOdded on February 14, 2017, 04:47:10 PM
Look at one of StealBlue's SCT logs, and attempt to duplicate in Forscan. Probably the easiest way to go.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7437.msg113188.html#msg113188 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7437.msg113188.html#msg113188)
Thanks for the response on this SHOdded, I stopped getting notifications for this thread for some reason, so I didn't see that you had replied to that one. I didn't have the miss pop up again, so I couldn't do a data log on it anyway.
After re-reading this thread, there's also something I forgot to include about my decision-making process to change the motor, which is that I had the oil analysis done and the results were not great. Blackstone said I had more like 6k miles worth of aluminum and copper in the oil than the 600 miles that were on it. I also saw a huge drop in mpg even after the oil change. These things led me to suspect increased engine friction from wiped bearings and then lower oil pressure from the increased clearance. I then decided to pull the trigger on the low mile 2015 Explorer Interceptor motor that's in the car now.
My working theory until I get the old engine opened up for inspection is that the faulty PCV valve and oil separator caused oil consumption even before I put the catch can on and the PO ran it for a while with it low on oil. It was a little low on oil when I bought it, which wasn't alarming to me at the time, but now I know in hindsight was probably a tell tale sign of why the original turbos failed in the first place. I'm kicking myself for not having checked the PCV and oil separator earlier. Might have ultimately saved the motor and even the set of turbos the PO had installed.
Yeah, notifications IDK what the issue might be. I only have a Daily Digest set up, and that has been working fine. Something in the "ad hoc" timing as post-based notification would be is not quite right. Will look into it again.
Yikes, the oil analysis sucked! Glad you had it done, good insurance :thumb: Can you post the results please? There is a subforum for this, but you can post it in this thread, NP.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html)
If the PCV valve/separator can cause a failure like this, that WOULD be worrisome. Easy enough to change them out, maybe as regular maintenance items.
Once again didn't see the reply on this post for whatever reason. Sorry about the delay but here's the oil analysis data in case anyone's interested, for posterity of course. In the part that's cut off tech said iron and aluminum looked elevated for only 600 miles on the oil. He said it looked more like 6000 miles.