I'm wondering if any of the CAIs are even worth the trouble? All I am going to do with my flex is have a good 91 octane tune on it. If it runs close to what my Trailblazer SS ran (mid 13's) I'll be happy.
Quote from: MikeB on December 26, 2012, 10:40:40 PM
I'm wondering if any of the CAIs are even worth the trouble? All I am going to do with my flex is have a good 91 octane tune on it. If it runs close to what my Trailblazer SS ran (mid 13's) I'll be happy.
Most say that with a tune only the Airaid won't make much of a difference but if you do the UBI intake like I did and put the filter out into the fender I believe you will due to the colder air. The key is not to increase hot air coming in which the stock intake does a great job of in comparison to the regular Airaid Intake.
I put one on my EB truck just because I wanted to hear the turbos a bit better. Only gained 4-6 rwhp and about 11 torque if I recall the dyno before and afters correctly. But def could hear the turbos more after as well
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you may be able to get a tenth out of an intake then. Maybe one day I will make my own fender well intake and see how it does. For now, I will get a good drop in filter and see if I can just open the grill and duct air from there directly into the air box. Doing something similar with my airbox on my Subaru did WAY better than an off the shelf CAI. 15hp better actually.
I too made an intake which extends into the fender area. At the time, no custom intakes were available. Later, I bought an AIRAID intake because they look great... However, I immediately noticed it ran warmer and did not cool down as quickly as my custom intake. My CAI shows IAT temps at or below the car thermometer any time I am on the hwy. Cooler air helps! Remember though... that our ECM operates on MCT (manifold charge temp) vs N.A vehicles which use IAT temp to modify advance.
Still, cooler in, should provide cooler air out of the turbos and intercooler.
AirAid is for sale $200. shipped. Used less than 2 days and about 40 mi.
Quote from: MikeB on December 27, 2012, 09:23:13 AM
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you may be able to get a tenth out of an intake then. Maybe one day I will make my own fender well intake and see how it does. For now, I will get a good drop in filter and see if I can just open the grill and duct air from there directly into the air box. Doing something similar with my airbox on my Subaru did WAY better than an off the shelf CAI. 15hp better actually.
What intake did you go to? Also, did you have a paper air filter in the stock airbox?
The best bang for the buck is to add a K & N drop in filter in the stock air box. That way the dealer won't complain and you will get better flow than with the stock paper filter.
But... for all out better & cooler intake air, you need to get filter over by the fender where it can draw air from front and below, and attempt to block off engine heat with some sort of panel.
Are you comparing the cooler iat temps directly to any sort of power gain such as logged differences in airflow, or dyno tested? Reason I ask is cooler air into the turbo on all cars that I've tuned in the past (granted not this platform) have not gotten any lower bat's from lowering iat's. Therefore, no power gain cai vs short ram style, in fact the reverse has been true in many cases (Mazdaspeed 3 for one) where short ram made equal or better power and had better throttle response.
Personally, i want as short of an intake path as possible with a bellmouth entrance right into the turbo inlet.
It would be nice to have air going directly into turbo with no pipes or plumbing. Unfortunately our turbo's are under the engine... Since another 6-8" of piping is only a small part of the current EB system, the colder the intake air the better. I can't show you specific logs, as I never compared stock vs AirAid vs my custom intake that draws air out of fender area like 4DHTRD, but with 75% methanol, my MCT was at times up to 15 deg. below ambient temp. It kept going down until I was in a WOT run at around 90 mph, and then would slowly go up, but still ended below where it started.
But since I can't offer proof, you may be correct.
Similar to what I've seen with past meth injection as well with below ambient when it's injecting. When you have meth, IATs matter even less.
I had a short ram on my Mazdaspeed 3 that drew in hot air from aitting directly in front of the radiator and never heat soaked my BATs with air/water intercooler and I swapped CAI to short ram with back to back testing several times on different days. I had sometimes as high as 80 degree IAT swing with no change in BAT temp differences. I did similar testing on some of my previous turbo/intercooled vehicles with the same results.
With the Flex, I found I heat soaked less if I just let the vehicle idle with the hood open when waiting for up to an hour in the staging line.
Our tuner... Torrie is most interested in MCT temps, not IAT, but if the air coming in is cooler, it takes less time to lower MCT temps, even when spraying Methanol.
Perhaps if he sees this he can comment.
Has anyone thought about running a smaller set of nozzles for pre turbo meth?
2011 ISM SHO; Airaid Intake
Pre-turbo methanol??
Yeah. Cools down your intake temps and the inlet side of the turbo as well. Only negative I have read is a very very slow eroding of the impeller. The higher the % of methanol, the longer it takes to cause harm. Apparently micro water droplets at buck wild speeds don't play nice with metal. Lol.
A few guys who were trying to get the most out of there stock turbos on the mazdaspeed3 ran setups like this. One before the turbo (small) and a larger one before the tb.
2011 ISM SHO; Airaid Intake
Quote from: Franchi Motorsports on December 27, 2012, 01:02:45 AM
I put one on my EB truck just because I wanted to hear the turbos a bit better. Only gained 4-6 rwhp and about 11 torque if I recall the dyno before and afters correctly. But def could hear the turbos more after as well
Is the engine packaging more open on the F-150 than the SHO? Any chance the F-150's airflow in an out of the engine compartment is better?
The SHO heat soaks very easily and the stock piece runs far cooler and recovers very fast.
My metal pipe K@N was uncomfortably hot to the touch and the IAT's reflected it. Past a certain point, IAT's will never recover.
The SHO packaging is good at making heat and keeping it in.
After a couple hours parked in the garage, I have seen IAT's over 110 degrees. Keep in mind this garage is climate controlled.
I really wanted to like the K&N.
Well built, looks pretty, really opens up the sound of turbos and diverter valves.
It is now sitting in the corner of my garage.
On a SHO with a hot engine I'm convinced the K&N will make less power than the stock setup.
Maybe we need to get a Mustang/TBird (I am thinking long, swooping, maybe 80s/90s) style front end on the SHO body. Enough room to work some serious magic underhood. though the SHO might feel large enough as it is. LOL.
I was going to post the same question but saw this thread already started. Has anything changed in 3 years? It seems Airaid/Windstorm/K&N/MDesign yield negligible gains even on tuned cars?
Quote from: metroplex on September 14, 2016, 07:31:44 AM
I was going to post the same question but saw this thread already started. Has anything changed in 3 years? It seems Airaid/Windstorm/K&N/MDesign yield negligible gains even on tuned cars?
That is still correct from a single component performance perspective. Though I dont think the newest iteration of MDesign (with a larger filter, and lining to prevent heat entering from the engine bay) has been tested as exhaustively as his first gen. With the second gens updates I would expect equal or better performance when compared to his first gen.
I would assume that an intake is still going to benefit and produce more power as the mods compile on the vehicle. While an intake might not help right away on a stock vehicle, or even one with a tune, it cant hurt in the long run as other components are added. Plus, an aftermarket intake provides spot to drill for meth while still being able to return to stock.
Both intake and exhaust have to be addressed to see gains in the entire rev band. Since the OEM system already flows pretty well, a CAI will show an advantage in high revving, high powered situations. Then you have the intake manifolds, which can be ported to gain maybe up to 20% better airflow. Not much you can do with the exhaust manifolds, but heads can be ported for better airflow as well.
I'm sure catless downpipes might help in the exhaust area, but I was more interested in seeing how much gain (if any) would come from just the air intake without touching (porting) any of the engine components. I think I'm at the limit for 93 octane pump fuel with the tune, just trying to look at things that I can do easily to boost power.
You would be very hard pressed to find another vendor with more EB achievements, support for and/or a larger following than we are fortunate enough to have.
Here is the breakdown on a tune's supporting mods:
3BAR MAP- NO BRAINER! The 3 BAR MAP sensor allows us to better measure, map and apply higher than stock levels of boost throughout the powerband. The part itself does not make more power, but it effectively allows us to turn the EcoBoost's engineering against itself to make better and more effective tuning for you.
160* thermostat- Again, a no brainer. This allows us to again tune slightly more aggressively by keeping coolant temps down and fighting detonation.
CAI- This is a great mod if you want a couple (~7hp) and more cabin noise on a stock exhaust truck. If you add exhaust components that is where the real power gains come into play!
DP- Totally worth it from an efficient performance perspective, as they allow your turbos to spool more freely. The peak gains are good, but that is not the important part of the story. The DP's will allow you to make peak power ~500 RPM sooner, hold that power for about another 500 RPM and then continue to make more power again for ~500 RPM.
Catback- The similar rules apply here that do to the CAI. If you want a handful of hp and sound, cool. If you add the complimenting performance parts you get SOOO MUCH MORE!
Are the gains from the CAI more with a tune that runs more boost? I see that a lot of the advertised hp gains for a stock tune running a CAI is about 10 hp. How about with more boost?
Will the colder t-stat make that much of a difference? At the track, my ECT's never went above 192F using the stock thermostat.