So I have a concerning issue since I got the LMS 93 Octane tune. Ever since I got the tune, I've been noticing at WOT that the shift from first to second is REALLY hard. I was told that it will "soften up", but it also really concerns but driving into work, I punched it to get up to speed and I felt the transmission slip from 1st to 2nd gear. I'm starting to grow concerned that this tune is DESTROYING my transmission.
I did have Traction Control on, so it could be the torque converter could have detecting tire slip, and applying the power to the front wheels... but Its almost like I need to roll with my traction control off to do any sort of WOT on the car.
Anyone experience anything similar?
I wasnt, then after miles I was...changed trans fluid...gone!!!
Rich
You could try having the shift pressure lowered, for one thing. But if your tires are in an environment hostile to them, they may not give you the traction you need either. You have the F1's on there now? What temps are you seeing on a daily basis? Tire pressures?
Describe the slipping....the torque converter doesn't have anything to do with traction control....and it's not sending more power to the front...it's always there this is not a rear biased awe system....I'd ask livernois to lower the 1-2 wot shift pressure to no more than 200 psi max
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 09:28:57 AM
I wasnt, then after miles I was...changed trans fluid...gone!!!
Rich
I doubt the fluid had anything to do with helping but probably more due to the min and max learned start pressure settings for the adaptive scalars in your tune
Did you disconnectbthe battery,if so you must perform the battery relearn,so essentially the trans must relearn its adaptive strategy,overtime the learning process will fully update trans operation to its optimum shift feel.Z
I'll reach out the LMS to see if they can lower the transmission pressure at WOT. Normal driving, the transitions are smooth.
If I take off traction control, I don't have slipping.. does it change your answers at all? Just curious...
Quote from: ZSHO on April 07, 2015, 09:50:20 AM
Did you disconnectbthe battery,if so you must perform the battery relearn,so essentially the trans must relearn its adaptive strategy,overtime the learning process will fully update trans operation to its optimum shift feel.Z
I did disconnect the battery to swap out plugs. How long does this "relearn" take. I installed the tune last week Thursday.
The first thing that needs to happen is reach out to LME and let them know what is up. Lots of us have been through this with both of our main beloved ecoboost tuners. I'm sure they will get you squared away in short order.
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 07, 2015, 09:51:44 AM
I'll reach out the LMS to see if they can lower the transmission pressure at WOT. Normal driving, the transitions are smooth.
If I take off traction control, I don't have slipping.. does it change your answers at all? Just curious...
No but I'd have to feel and hear it first hand
Good luck and keep us updated.Z
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 09:28:57 AM
I wasnt, then after miles I was...changed trans fluid...gone!!!
Rich
I doubt the fluid had anything to do with helping but probably more due to the min and max learned start pressure settings for the adaptive scalars in your tune
Highly doubtful, unless the car learns while turned off sitting in the garage. Changed fluid, went WOT run it was gone...Flash tune and still gone. Stiffer shift with the flash, no stutter though. And the stiffer shifting after this fluid change and flash was much less harsh than prior flashes.
Rich
That fluid you pulled out was looking unexpectedly nasty too, Rich!
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 09:28:57 AM
I wasnt, then after miles I was...changed trans fluid...gone!!!
Rich
I doubt the fluid had anything to do with helping but probably more due to the min and max learned start pressure settings for the adaptive scalars in your tune
Highly doubtful, unless the car learns while turned off sitting in the garage. Changed fluid, went WOT run it was gone...Flash tune and still gone. Stiffer shift with the flash, no stutter though. And the stiffer shifting after this fluid change and flash was much less harsh than prior flashes.
Rich
How many miles did you have on your SHO? Mine only has about 26,700
48k...30 k should be changed I say.
Will finally be sending out my oil samples soon. Got a trans sample last week and was going to get one from the PTU again but Ford "couldnt" change. Maybe the test samples can shed some light on it.
The fluid was quite dark. Might be a worthwhile 15 minutes to let a little trans fluid out and check it's color.
Rich
I guess if ur fluid resembled dog s***...I didn't think ur fluid could be that bad on an 11'....some people never change trane fluid...I think the shudder problem can show itself intermittently with high pressures...some cars may tolerate it better than others...and it seems to handle shift high shift pressures of over 220 psi in above 2nd gear Nicely.not sure why tho
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 11:19:51 AM
I guess if ur fluid resembled dog s***...I didn't think ur fluid could be that bad on an 11'....some people never change trane fluid...I think the shudder problem can show itself intermittently with high pressures...some cars may tolerate it better than others...and it seems to handle shift high shift pressures of over 220 psi in above 2nd gear Nicely.not sure why tho
Exactly...so I'm sort of suggesting maintenance before tune adjustments. I feel with adjusting the tune you may just be masking an underlying issue.
I'd really like if someone with the stutter would try this before getting an adjustment made. My single experience is just not enough to confirm this.
Rich
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 11:24:05 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 11:19:51 AM
I guess if ur fluid resembled dog s***...I didn't think ur fluid could be that bad on an 11'....some people never change trane fluid...I think the shudder problem can show itself intermittently with high pressures...some cars may tolerate it better than others...and it seems to handle shift high shift pressures of over 220 psi in above 2nd gear Nicely.not sure why tho
Exactly...so I'm sort of suggesting maintenance before tune adjustments. I feel with adjusting the tune you may just be masking an underlying issue.
I'd really like if someone with the stutter would try this before getting an adjustment made. My single experience is just not enough to confirm this.
Rich
Good point Rich.... If the problem is maintenance... and the tune is adjusted.... there could be problems again after the maintenance is done!
Rich I had a car with 3k miles and true synthetic amsoil...it's arguably the best fluid available....the pressures when set in some of these tunes at over 200 is way over stock and the tranny simply does not like that...I think the stock setting is about 175 but I'd have to look...might not seem like it but that's a huge increase...it doesn't take large adjustments to make a difference in shift firmness when using that scalar in the tune
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 11:31:06 AM
Rich I had a car with 3k miles and true synthetic amsoil...it's arguably the best fluid available....the pressures when set in some of these tunes at over 200 is way over stock and the tranny simply does not like that...I think the stock setting is about 175 but I'd have to look...might not seem like it but that's a huge increase...it doesn't take large adjustments to make a difference in shift firmness when using that scalar in the tune
True ajp... from the posts here it seems that as the (already increased) 200psi tranny shift pressures are exceeded unwanted behaviors develop.
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 11:31:06 AM
Rich I had a car with 3k miles and true synthetic amsoil...it's arguably the best fluid available....the pressures when set in some of these tunes at over 200 is way over stock and the tranny simply does not like that...I think the stock setting is about 175 but I'd have to look...might not seem like it but that's a huge increase...it doesn't take large adjustments to make a difference in shift firmness when using that scalar in the tune
I hear ya AJ. No arguing your point here. It's just with us LME guys....we have identical settings. So when something isn't working for one of us, but is for others...I start leaning towards personal car maintenance. Not saying people haven't maintained their car properly, just they aren't built exactly alike.
Example:
Guy has shifting problem and LME says it's fine, he goes to Torrie and he adjusts settings to "feel" better for driver. Issue seemed to be gone. Month later PTU explodes.
Rich
TSS might jump in here but I know he had his transmission fluid changed and the stutter seemed to be gone for a few days but then returned. He finally had the shift pressure reduced on the 1-2 shift.
I also had my shift pressure reduced on the 1-2 shift and, at first, I was afraid that it might hurt acceleration since the shift is so much more refined. After a few 0-60 tests with the Aeroforce gauge, I discovered that performance was not hurt at all.
I am not saying that dirty or burnt transmission fluid will not contribute to this but high shift pressures seem to be the common denominator. Why the issue is so inconsistent, though, continues to puzzle me.
True and hard to compare really because different software is used for tuning the tables maybe presented completely different and even if they are similar I don't know how well they would correlate...I'm not a software engineer..ie a torrie tune via sct and lms tune via mycal or whatever it is
In the FSM for the Edge, under Trans specifications, I see this:
Line Pressure Chart
Gear Line
Pressures at Idle
P 372-413 kPa (54-60 psi)
R 689-724 kPa (100-105 psi)
N 372-413 kPa (54-60 psi)
D 579-600 kPa (84-87 psi)
L 579-600 kPa (84-87 psi)
Pressure at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) Stall
P 372-413 kPa (54-60 psi)
R 1,724-2,068 kPa (250-300 psi)
N 372-413 kPa (54-60 psi)
D 1,655-1,724 kPa (240-250 psi)
L 1,655-1,724 kPa (240-250 psi)
I am sure there are similar tables available in the SHO/Flex/XSPort/MKS FSM's.
....I could be wrong but I don't think those are for shifts since it says "stall"...something with torque converter settings...the shift pressure tables are based on torque and ramp up with torque...at part throttle and low commanded toque areas the pressures are well below 50 even so the numbers u show look really high which also makes me think they are for something different that is not the culprit for the 1-2 shudder...but again I could be wrong
Mind you, these numbers are for the Edge (6F50), not the SHO (6F55), two different transmissions. Besides I don't have any info on the actual range control capability for each of the shift solenoids, nor the "breaking point" for the actual gears/clutch packs involved.
I guess the same goes for meth injection,before installing it the car should be in great running condition preferably with lower mileage in order to get the full potential from your vehicle,and of course the the lower stat and new plugs,and fluids.Z
Time out team. LOL
There was a LOT of good information here. However, to better figure out the problem with the community, lets actually figure out what I should test. I'm ok doing new tranny fluid.
Rich -- Do you want me to get some of the from my transmission fluid to see its color? Do you suggest that I change out the fluid and see if I still get that shudder between 1st and 2nd?
Rich + Everyone else -- Remember when I have traction control OFF, I don't have this issue. That makes me lean towards tune + line pressure or slip sensitivity over mechanical.
Also to note, I was running in Sport Mode, not Drive. I hear from some people that I need to avoid Sport Mode with LMS 93 3bar V8
Does anyone know how TC affects the tranny, other than locking out 6th gear?
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 07, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
Does anyone know how TC affects the tranny, other than locking out 6th gear?
TC affects the power distribution. Do you mean Sport Mode? The shift points on a "stock car" with Sport Mode are different.
"Engine output is the same 365 hp and 350 lb-ft of torque but acceleration of the Performance Package version benefits from a shorter 3.16:1 final-drive ratio (compared to the SHO's standard 2.77:1 ratio)."
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1205_ford_taurus_sho_performance_package/ (http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1205_ford_taurus_sho_performance_package/)
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 07, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 07, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
Does anyone know how TC affects the tranny, other than locking out 6th gear?
TC affects the power distribution. Do you mean Sport Mode? The shift points on a "stock car" with Sport Mode are different.
yea.. meant sport mode... Thanks
The official word from Livernois:
"The traction control is not happy with the newly found power and as it is re learning like you mentioned it will be firmer. If you drive less aggressive it will eventually tone down over a few days time. I typically prefer to give them a few days of driving to tone down a bit before boost launching and a lot of WOT driving. The car needs a fighting chance to learn and for adjusting to the new flash. Also that slip feeling is your car trying to stop power delivery to the ground because it sees the potential for wheel spin. I always turn traction control off every time I get in my vehicles by force of habit. That way when I want to play, its ready to go for it instead of acting like a dog to prevent loss of traction. I would give it a few days of typical driving and the times when you do plan on driving aggressively, turn of the TC. Some models like our PP had a TC button vs the models where you have to disable it in the menu. If your car has a TC button, hold your foot on the brake when running in park and hold the button in for 10-15 seconds. I know the PP for example will say advance trac off which is the true "OFF" or track mode. That allows the car to spin the tires as it so desires."
I asked if I should unplug the battery to relearn and drive "nicely".... no word yet.
Sounds fishy to me......Couple things here. It takes no longer than 4-5 seconds pushing the TC button and holding the brake to disable the advance trac, not 10-15 seconds lol....You can just reflash and the KAM(keep alive memory) will reset and all the adaptives will be reset, no need to disconnect the battery....If you have an X4 device it has a feature to reset the KAM so it's quick and easy.
I hated waiting for the adaptive stuff after a reflash...to me the adaptives are just there to compensate for a lack of tuning, so if the tables are dialed in better the adaptive is a much quicker if even non existent process. i.e. before I smoothed out my shift pressures some of my part throttle shifts were overly firm. SO I reduced some of the part throttle pressures that ford left strangely high, so now I've all but eliminated the adaptive learning process and it shifts properly immediately following a reflash.
I invite some of you to log "actual throttle angle" during a long WOT pull. I think a lot of you may be surprised to find that some of the perceived missing and traction control intervention may actually be throttle closures due to some of the torque tables not matching commanded and actual torque values and nothing to do with loss of traction and traction control issues.
These cars are tedious to tune and I'm not an expert but I've see a few pro tuners struggle with this to get it right. At times I would see my boost drop abruptly and it can be perceived as a miss or a traction issue because it's happening around a shift but it has more to do with drive by wire and complex torque tables in this platform.
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 07, 2015, 06:12:55 PM
Sounds fishy to me......Couple things here. It takes no longer than pushing the TC button and holding the brake to disable the advance trac, not 10-15 seconds lol....You can just reflash and the KAM(keep alive memory) will reset and all the adaptives will be reset, no need to disconnect the battery....If you have an X4 device it has a feature to reset the KAM so it's quick and easy.
I hated waiting for the adaptive stuff after a reflash...to me the adaptives are just there to compensate for a lack of tuning, so if the tables are dialed in better the adaptive is a much quicker if even non existent process. i.e. before I smoothed out my shift pressures some of my part throttle shifts were overly firm. SO I reduced some of the part throttle pressures that ford left strangely high, so now I've all but eliminated the adaptive learning process and it shifts properly immediately following a reflash.
I invite some of you to log "actual throttle angle" during a long WOT pull. I think a lot of you may be surprised to find that some of the perceived missing and traction control intervention may actually be throttle closures due to some of the torque tables not matching commanded and actual torque values and nothing to do with loss of traction and traction control issues.
These cars are tedious to tune and I'm not an expert but I've see a few pro tuners struggle with this to get it right. At times I would see my boost drop abruptly and it can be perceived as a miss or a traction issue because it's happening around a shift but it has more to do with drive by wire and complex torque tables in this platform.
On the 2015, holding the brake and tapping the button increases the thresholds and holding for 5 seconds disables completely.
Your post sounds spot on to my experiences with Torrie during the datalog and retune cycle.
The time the car took to "seem sorted" decreased to almost nothing towards the end.
Great insight, thanks!
I too experienced this stutter/shudder/slip feeling for the first time ever, this morning. It almost felt like power was being transferred under heavy load to the rear.
Reminded me of the same feeling I would get sometimes in my AWD Subaru XT6 back in the early 90's when it would lose grip.
I was not at WOT, but near. I just put the tune back on a little over a week ago, so, I'm attributing it to the learning process.
I was tuned from last Oct to March and had nothing like this before. No worries here....
Yeah I'm betting Livernois is having a real tough time figuring out the ecoboost....Really
But I guess it'd be to hard to give anyone other than your choice any respect....that's being a "my" car guy, not a car guy.
Isn't traction control all about torque to the wheels?
Thus, when it's enabled and you exceed torque limit, it adjusts for you.
Makes complete sense with it not being present when disabled.
If you plan on driving aggressively you should always have traction control off if tuned. A quick lane change and mash of the skinny pedal at same time can put you in a bad situation if needing the speed.
Rich
Quote from: SHOnUup on April 07, 2015, 10:30:09 PM
Yeah I'm betting Livernois is having a real tough time figuring out the ecoboost....Really
But I guess it'd be to hard to give anyone other than your choice any respect....that's being a "my" car guy, not a car guy.
Isn't traction control all about torque to the wheels?
Thus, when it's enabled and you exceed torque limit, it adjusts for you.
Makes complete sense with it not being present when disabled.
If you plan on driving aggressively you should always have traction control off if tuned. A quick lane change and mash of the skinny pedal at same time can put you in a bad situation if needing the speed.
Rich
I'm not sure what you mean and if you are being sarcastic....But there are many forms of torque control in these cars....The amount and times that torque control can be applied may have nothing to do with a wheel spinning or a temporary loss of traction....The traction control intervention is from wheel speed sensors. Torque control, in these cars comes when something isn't happy with the tables in the tune or something exceeded a threshold or it's intentional and is a form of protection.
It's way above me and I don't understand how the car measures actual and delivered torque. Complex algorithms and some values are "inferred" based on other values but the new mustangs and most drive by wire cars are using this form of tuning now
i.e you can set the car up so that you have traction control off but still have all kinds of torque reductions and the throttle closes even though there was no wheel slip detected...There are torque reductions for the PTU, Trans, limits per gear, input shaft torque limits, oil temp and more
As figured out as anyone.... Since the LME shop owns 3 SHOs among a stable of EBs.
As far as this topic ... I can't turn off the TC since I'm nonPP, my car doesn't exhibit the behavior described.... Not even close spinning at start, 1-2, and 2-3...
Corrupt tune? Individuality of the OPs car? Dunno... Won't be simple until it's identified. As FoMoCo says... Issues develop for both the reputable tuners with this platform.
So there is a lot of information about torque curves here. I think most people here missed the fact that the newer SHOs have all redone dynamic torque vectoring. The torque tables are complex due to inputs from the speed, wheel angle, slip, and brake... Its not just simple torque management anymore.
Also in my 2014, I can't figure out how to turn off the ESC. In the screen menu --> I go to Driver Assist --> Traction Control --> and uncheck it. I still get assist in slides but its not as sensitive as with the Traction Control on. I am not entirely sure there is a way to fully disable traction control on this car. Any tips would be wonderful.
With all that being stated, I'm giving my car some time to adjust. I'll let you know how things go given a few more weeks.
14shocar I have no idea what you are talking about...have u ever seen the parameters in a calibration?...the torque tables have nothing to do with what you mentioned....the x and y axis are Newton meters of torque and rpm....that's it.
Torque curves are for dynos and that's not what's being referenced here about the torque tables in the tune...I'm struggling with how u think u know some of these things but can't get the traction control off.....do u have a non pp? Then you can't disable advance trax completely
I haven't seen any of the tables in this ECUs logic control.
But, I'll bet like you said, ajp, torque is assumed by formulations using airflow and fuel as datapoints. I'm not familiar with a speed density system either though.
TC based on input from wheel speed sensors. And then the output limiting or failsafe control measures by limiting fuel or closing throttle.
However, it is possible that those control measures (throttle closure) are used when TC is on and slip is detected by speed sensor data input. This is common in lieu of LSD.
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on April 08, 2015, 11:11:55 AM
I haven't seen any of the tables in this ECUs logic control.
But, I'll bet like you said, ajp, torque is assumed by formulations using airflow and fuel as datapoints. I'm not familiar with a speed density system either though.
TC based on input from wheel speed sensors. And then the output limiting or failsafe control measures by limiting fuel or closing throttle.
However, it is possible that those control measures (throttle closure) are used when TC is on and slip is detected by speed sensor data input. This is common in lieu of LSD.
I was misreading the context. I thought you were talking about torque in general, not just on a dyno.
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 08, 2015, 10:32:51 AM
I'm struggling with how u think u know some of these things but can't get the traction control off.....do u have a non pp? Then you can't disable advance trax completely
Per this article: https://social.ford.com/our-articles/cars/sho/new-taurus-sho-inspired-by-club-enthusiasts-and-customers/ (https://social.ford.com/our-articles/cars/sho/new-taurus-sho-inspired-by-club-enthusiasts-and-customers/)
"SHO dynamics have been enhanced with larger brakes, torque vectoring control – using slight braking to provide the effect of a limited-slip differential – and unique sport-tuned suspension."
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 07, 2015, 08:10:32 PM
On the 2015, holding the brake and tapping the button increases the thresholds and holding for 5 seconds disables completely.
There isn't "a button" on my system is what I'm saying. I only have the screen menus.
I know this may sound pretty strange, but how do I definitively know if I have the performance package?
Per this: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2014-ford-taurus-sho-ar160382.html (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2014-ford-taurus-sho-ar160382.html)
"SHO Performance Package: 20-in. bright machined painted aluminum wheels, performance summer compound tires, performance brake pads, heavy-duty cooling system, EPAS specially calibrated steering, ESC track mode, 3:16:1 final drive gear ratio, tire mobility kit, Alcantara suede steering wheel"
I have to 20" rims, but that could be part of the 401a feature group. I do have an S selection on my shifter, but that could be a standard thing. I have Michelin 245/45R20 99V tires... Are the "performance summer compound tires" tires z rated?
I don't' have a reference point for the cooling system, so I don't know if it's "Heavy Duty". Is there any other tell tale signs?
Only Performance Package SHO's have the T/C button to fully disable the system.
Here is a video I made on how to disable it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTQNee18pI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTQNee18pI)
That's all I can contribute to this thread :D
Alcantara wheel would be the easiest...look at ur window sticker under options look for sho performance package...ask fomoco about the traction control for a 15 or read the manual
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 08, 2015, 11:47:37 AM
Alcantara wheel would be the easiest...look at ur window sticker under options look for sho performance package...ask fomoco about the traction control for a 15 or read the manual
It sounds like I have a non-pp :(..
The problem as I didn't get a window sticker because I bought this used.
That explains a lot here... I wonder if I can get the upgraded cooling components...
Specifically the oil cooler and radiator...
Where's that window sticker generator at?
If you have the Michelins as stated earlier and a spare tire in the trunk then you have a non-PP,and who could miss that loud annoying collission alert on top of the drivers dash.
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 08, 2015, 11:50:10 AMIt sounds like I have a non-pp :(..
The problem as I didn't get a window sticker because I bought this used.
That explains a lot here... I wonder if I can get the upgraded cooling components...
Specifically the oil cooler and radiator...
Yes, all of the auxiliary cooling components can easily be retro-fitted.
The only exception being the rear diff / PTU cooler, which is more involved.
There are links online where you can punch in your V.I.N. & be able to obtain both your window sticker &/or options list.
Currently not at a desktop to find & post them for you, but perhaps SHOdded can/will. He's very helpful/knowledgeable like that.
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on April 08, 2015, 11:53:34 AM
Where's that window sticker generator at?
I found a site to print off my sticker based on the VIN. It looks like I don't have the PP for sure.
14SHOCAR.... For vehicle info you can get a pdf of the window sticker free at http://researchmaniacs.com/VIN-Number-Lookup/WindowSticker/Ford.html (http://researchmaniacs.com/VIN-Number-Lookup/WindowSticker/Ford.html)
Just enter your VIN...easy... free
So what is the consensus on changing out the fluids in the drivetrain?
Where do you go to get this work done? Is it 100% dealership?
What parts do I need to take off? I'll put back the 2 bar, stock tune, but anything else (intake)??
When get the cat + exhaust, that will be a bit more of a pain to do... thoughts?
What would make u think the dealership is the only place that does fluids?...sorry you're making me evil......I say get that poop fluid out and change them all out asap
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 08, 2015, 01:03:38 PM
So what is the consensus on changing out the fluids in the drivetrain?
Where do you go to get this work done? Is it 100% dealership?
What parts do I need to take off? I'll put back the 2 bar, stock tune, but anything else (intake)??
When get the cat + exhaust, that will be a bit more of a pain to do... thoughts?
For dealership work more than Quicklane oil change always go back to stock tune. Of course for those of us with 3BARs also change that. No dealers in PHX will do the ptu as Ford will then hold them liable if the part fails, rather than Ford corporate... I actually had this conversation with the service manager at my dealership.
Don't know about consensus... But 15K-25K for these fluids IMHO... you'll need a suction pump as the PTU has no drain plug and you'll be working through the vent. Most people are doing it multiple times at one operation to try to get more of the old fluid out...there are several threads on doing this and listing fluid types/capacities. If the ptu fluid is thick blackened junk or has metal in it I'd recommend finding someone to remove it and clean it properly.
I don't think AM pipes will add to the difficulty.
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 08, 2015, 01:39:19 PM
Don't know about consensus... But 15K-25K for these fluids IMHO... you'll need a suction pump as the PTU has no drain plug and you'll be working through the vent.
So what you're saying is I can't take it to a lube place to replace this fluid or the rear diff? We have a place out here called hands on garage which has the lifts, tools etc to do whatever you need to for a vehicle. I'd consider doing the fluids if I can find the right stuff + weight.
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 08, 2015, 01:16:14 PM
sorry you're making me evil..
(http://cdn.pophangover.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/evil-cows-meme-20.jpg)
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 08, 2015, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 08, 2015, 01:39:19 PM
Don't know about consensus... But 15K-25K for these fluids IMHO... you'll need a suction pump as the PTU has no drain plug and you'll be working through the vent.
So what you're saying is I can't take it to a lube place to replace this fluid or the rear diff? We have a place out here called hands on garage which has the lifts, tools etc to do whatever you need to for a vehicle. I'd consider doing the fluids if I can find the right stuff + weight.
Quote from: ajpturbo on April 08, 2015, 01:16:14 PM
sorry you're making me evil..
(http://cdn.pophangover.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/evil-cows-meme-20.jpg)
Take it anywhere you trust! Check out the lubricants though. I have a 7 year factory maintenance policy on my car... but I take them the oil, etc...you may want to do the same wherever you go.
I do think it's good to have a relationship with the service folks at a Ford house... it has come in handy for me.
Id love to have a relationship with a dealer but I just can't bring myself to mess with them anymore when they tell me they have to drop the ptu to do the fluid lol...it tells me they are either stupid or dishonest so either way they aren't worth my time
Honestly, I'd prefer to have the unit R&R'd and opened once off for a real inspection and cleaning.... no dealer i'm near will touch it unless it fails.