Have any of you guys experienced this? I purchased the switchback DRL's from Daytime Bright Lites for my 2014 Taurus SHO on which I had already installed the Triton V6 switchbacks (w/ 6Ω load resistors) from VLED's. Upon installing the DRL's, I noticed that whenever the amber is activated (t/s, hazards, lock/unlock)
with the engine running, the amber flickers/strobes. I immediately contacted Dan at Daytime Bright Lites and he told me this has happened before and was due to a bad batch of controllers. After the new batch came in, he sent me one. Same result. Here's other information:
- This ONLY happens when the engine is running. When the engine is off, the DRL's function normally (no flicker/strobe)
- The fuse tap was moved to a different fuse slot - no change
- Dan sent me 2nd new controller and even 2 new DRL's - no change
- I purchased a set of 3Ω load resistors for the Tritons and installed them - no change
- Dan sent me a 3rd new controller - no change
- The courtesy light adapter was bypassed - no change
Has anybody got these two pieces to coexist peacefully? Experienced this problem? I PM'd SHOdded since his sig notes that he has them but he didn't reply. I also don't know if this is unique to the V6 Tritons. Maybe this wouldn't happen with the old V3's?
Dan is all out of suggestions and I don't blame him. Given the number of replacement parts he's sent me, I'm thinking that one of his parts being faulty can be safely ruled out.
Can anybody help me?
I did not receive a PM from you. Nor do I have the DRLs. I have the DTBL/DB taillights for an 07 Edge :)
Are the two lights on different fuses? Which fuse(s) are they currently connected to?
I have the same problem with mine and never figured it out. He replaced my controller but it still does it. I only use them as DRLs for now...
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I think a member on SHOforum had posted a workaround/fix for it, something to do with resistors maybe?
Common issue with the Daytime Brite Lites, I can't remember if I'm on my 3rd or 4th set but my last replacement is still in the box and I don't think it has anything to do with a bad batch, but the issue seems to be limited to the Taurus. Dan's always been good about sending replacements,but it's a pain in the a** to keep changing things out. My findings were the same as the OP, they only strobe with the engine running. I don't have anything handy, but the vehicle voltage was about 1.5-2v higher w/ engine running, amps were more or less the same . There are two B+ feeds to the module. At some point I was going to get a voltage reducer and try it out on each B+ feed and see if either makes a difference, if not, possibly use one on each line and see.
For now, I just clipped the ts trigger wires and killed the turn signal feature since it happened right at State Inspection time and I've switched gears to other winter projects for now.
The problem is that for my experiment, I need to install an actual voltage regulator (fairly cheap at Amazon), but I do a clean looking install. I don't think just putting a resistor on the B+ feed lines will drop the voltage to the 12v key off range (E=IxR). Dan did mention installing the new module and if it doesn't fix it, put the new LED's on so I'm not sure if they've changed something in the led board (added resistance?). I ran the trigger wire that determines if the DRL feature runs at full or reduced intensity through a hidden rocker switch so I can change between the two by flipping the switch and opening or closing the trigger circuit-hyper flash happens in both settings.
All my exterior lighting bulbs are factory with the exception of my back up lights that don't come into play with the issue. Post up anything you find, maybe I'll switch gears and play with the issue. I still have the last module with the fault installed so I just need to reconnect the turn signal trigger wires and mess with the supply voltage to see if it has any effect.
Try turning off hyperflash with Forscan for Windows Extended License.
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/flickering-switchback-drls-w-triton-v6s.140612/#post-1524877 (https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/flickering-switchback-drls-w-triton-v6s.140612/#post-1524877)
QuoteThis exact thing happened on my 2015 with iBrightstar switchbacks from Amazon. I contacted the seller and they sent me a replacement set for free but still had the flickering issue. I then ordered a different set from Amazon and they worked flawlessly. I was thinking it had to do with any voltage above a static 12v when the engine was on (approx 14v). Someone on a Facebook group mentioned that the BCM used PWM on all bulbs to help them last longer. Regardless, the replacement ones didn't hav e the flickering issue. I did not use resistors and only disabled bulb outage notification on all lights using Forscan. FWIW, these are the switchbacks that I used:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MA5RW84/ (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MA5RW84/)
Quote from: SHOdded on January 03, 2020, 01:29:46 AM
Try turning off hyperflash with Forscan for Windows Extended License.
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/flickering-switchback-drls-w-triton-v6s.140612/#post-1524877 (https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/flickering-switchback-drls-w-triton-v6s.140612/#post-1524877)
QuoteThis exact thing happened on my 2015 with iBrightstar switchbacks from Amazon. I contacted the seller and they sent me a replacement set for free but still had the flickering issue. I then ordered a different set from Amazon and they worked flawlessly. I was thinking it had to do with any voltage above a static 12v when the engine was on (approx 14v). Someone on a Facebook group mentioned that the BCM used PWM on all bulbs to help them last longer. Regardless, the replacement ones didn't hav e the flickering issue. I did not use resistors and only disabled bulb outage notification on all lights using Forscan. FWIW, these are the switchbacks that I used:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MA5RW84/ (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MA5RW84/)
How do you do that? Is there a write up somewhere?
BTW, that's my post over on SHOForum. It's a cross-post.
Probably on YouTube. Several people have mentioned doing exactly this to resolve issues, so likely now there is a YouTube video on it somewhere.
Quote from: 6500rpm on January 02, 2020, 09:47:24 PM
Common issue with the Daytime Brite Lites, I can't remember if I'm on my 3rd or 4th set but my last replacement is still in the box and I don't think it has anything to do with a bad batch, but the issue seems to be limited to the Taurus. Dan's always been good about sending replacements,but it's a pain in the a** to keep changing things out. My findings were the same as the OP, they only strobe with the engine running. I don't have anything handy, but the vehicle voltage was about 1.5-2v higher w/ engine running, amps were more or less the same . There are two B+ feeds to the module. At some point I was going to get a voltage reducer and try it out on each B+ feed and see if either makes a difference, if not, possibly use one on each line and see.
For now, I just clipped the ts trigger wires and killed the turn signal feature since it happened right at State Inspection time and I've switched gears to other winter projects for now.
The problem is that for my experiment, I need to install an actual voltage regulator (fairly cheap at Amazon), but I do a clean looking install. I don't think just putting a resistor on the B+ feed lines will drop the voltage to the 12v key off range (E=IxR). Dan did mention installing the new module and if it doesn't fix it, put the new LED's on so I'm not sure if they've changed something in the led board (added resistance?). I ran the trigger wire that determines if the DRL feature runs at full or reduced intensity through a hidden rocker switch so I can change between the two by flipping the switch and opening or closing the trigger circuit-hyper flash happens in both settings.
All my exterior lighting bulbs are factory with the exception of my back up lights that don't come into play with the issue. Post up anything you find, maybe I'll switch gears and play with the issue. I still have the last module with the fault installed so I just need to reconnect the turn signal trigger wires and mess with the supply voltage to see if it has any effect.
I came to a similar conclusion. Engine off, your voltage should be somewhere in the 12.5V-12.9V range. Engine running, it's going to be north of 14.0V. Mine runs pretty consistent at 14.4V. I figured that somewhere in between, a voltage threshold is reached wherein the controller begins to "freak out".
Your idea to run a voltage "reducer" on the B+ leads would be tricky. First of all, whatever you use would have to be able to withstand some pretty high current. I don't think the starter runs through there but things like fan relays and things do. It would likely be cost-prohibitive to do something like that. The problem with something like a resistor is that it may properly reduce the 14.4V down to 12.9V, but that would also mean when the engine is off, the 12.9V would be reduced down to 11.0V or less. This would be very bad. When my battery went tango-uniform last year, the car started doing all sorts of weird things. As soon as you shut the engine off, the radio would shut off (citing low battery voltage right there on the screen). My HVAC would randomly just shut itself off while driving.
Even if you were able to do so, you wouldn't want to. What you would effectively be doing is taking the increased voltage generated by the alternator away throughout the entire vehicle. This would have a multitude of negative effects, most prominent of which would be poor / non-existent battery charging. Increased voltage = good (within reason) so you wouldn't want to take that away. Not to mention, lower voltage = increased amperage, which compounds the problem above.
On the other hand, reducing voltage to that specific circuit that feeds the DRL's isn't a half bad idea. Rather than a resistor, what we really need is something of a voltage "stabilizer" or "regulator". I'll search for something a little more easy to integrate but it could be as simple as something like a cheap and readily-available L7812 chip. This shows an output voltage of 11.5V-12.5V with a target of 12V. Plus, it's a simple 3-pin connection (input, output, ground). I don't know what kind of current draw the DRL's have, but the 7812 is only rated for 1.5A.
I'll do some more digging on this. These problems can be fun but also maddening. If something like the L7812 fixes the issue, I would think that is something Dan could integrate WITHIN the controller. To be quite honest, I am surprised it doesn't already. Most sensitive electronics regulate input voltage as pretty much a first step to avoid unwanted or unpredictable behavior. This is a good case in point.
Quote from: SHOdded on December 31, 2019, 01:33:21 PM
I did not receive a PM from you. Nor do I have the DRLs. I have the DTBL/DB taillights for an 07 Edge :)
Are the two lights on different fuses? Which fuse(s) are they currently connected to?
You're right, my mistake. I sent a PM to someone else (BiGMaC) but haven't heard back. Apologies.
No, the two lights are fed from a single fuse via the controller. I think I am plugged into fuse slot 70 right now. The instructions cited two slots and I tried them both. There was no difference.
Something like this is packaged better for an easy install and isn't horrible at $15: https://www.amazon.com/Converter-12V-Automatic-Waterproof-Transformer/dp/B07WY4P7W8/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=12v%2Bvoltage%2Bregulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-5&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Converter-12V-Automatic-Waterproof-Transformer/dp/B07WY4P7W8/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=12v%2Bvoltage%2Bregulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-5&th=1)
Amazon also sells 15-packs of L7812's for a mere $5.99. However, the install of these would be much more involved: https://www.amazon.com/MCIGICM-Voltage-Regulator-Linear-Positive/dp/B07D9Z7TDS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=12v+voltage+regulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.com/MCIGICM-Voltage-Regulator-Linear-Positive/dp/B07D9Z7TDS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=12v+voltage+regulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-3)
I will continue searching.
EDIT: This may be a better in-between. Smaller than the first one but easier to install than the first one: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Waterproof-Converter-Adjustable-Transformer/dp/B00C0KL1OM/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=12v+voltage+regulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-18 (https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Waterproof-Converter-Adjustable-Transformer/dp/B00C0KL1OM/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=12v+voltage+regulator&qid=1578346118&sr=8-18)
To tack along with the voltage regulator kick I'm currently on, this may be a tad more complicated. Do you regulate the voltage on the battery feeds to the DRL controller or the trigger wires (or both)?
I think I will buy a converter and give it a try. I will try the battery leads first because, well, honestly, that would be easier so I hope it is what fixes it.
EDIT: I have purchased the converter from the 3rd link above. It will be delivered Thursday and hopefully I can try it that night. It is rated for 3 amps of current. I can't imagine that the DRL's pull more than that. I'll keep everyone posted.
Bated breath :) It will likely be an issue with PWM and the way the BCM controls/interprets it. Hopefully there IS a simple hardware solution that can be proven without damage to other components.
The first regulator you have listed on "reply 10" is the one I had looked at, I was talking about just using it to feed the Daytime B L module B+ wires, nothing else. I have my module mounted on top of the fuse box cover nice and neat with two small push pins and the wire lengths cut accordingly. To add one or two regulators to get the turn signal function to work properly (if that works) means a lot more wires to hide and make look right.
Quote from: 6500rpm on January 06, 2020, 08:20:22 PM
The first regulator you have listed on "reply 10" is the one I had looked at, I was talking about just using it to feed the Daytime B L module B+ wires, nothing else. I have my module mounted on top of the fuse box cover nice and neat with two small push pins and the wire lengths cut accordingly. To add one or two regulators to get the turn signal function to work properly (if that works) means a lot more wires to hide and make look right.
Believe me, I'm right there with you on the requirement to have things look nice and tidy.
I don't know for sure (and that's why I'm experimenting) but my hope is that a single regulator on the battery wires to the controller is all that is necessary. In order for this to work, the turn signal and other wires would merely by trigger wires that open and close on board circuits, likely transistors. If I were designing this circuit, it's how I would have done it.
I have asked Dan if he knows anything about it but I don't expect him to know as it would require intimate knowledge of the internal circuit topology.
For $10, I'm willing to just try it.
My ultimate hope is that it works and Dan can integrate some L7812's (or similar) into the front end of the controller box itself and cut out the need for external hardware.
And maybe send me one for my troubles... :-)
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The voltage regulator worked.
First order of business was to adjust it. I hooked the input wires of the regulator to the battery terminals and started the engine. I adjusted the pot until I got 12.6V. The adjustment is quite good, I'll say. I chose 12.5V as that is a pretty standard voltage you would see on a battery without the engine running. Time to try.
I first placed the regulator on the battery wires feeding the DRL controller. Much to my dismay, the flicker persisted.
I was feeling froggy, however, so I decided to place it inline with the turn signal trigger wire. Success. No flickering.
The downside to this is that it would require two regulators - one for each turn signal. I concede this is not very elegant. Twice as hard to hide and twice as expensive.
Not satisfied to leave it there, I decided to take some measurements. I first measured the voltage on the turn signal wire when blinking. I'm going with 14.3V. I then placed my DMM in ammeter mode and measured the current on the turn signal wire feeding the controller. I came up with 12mA. Using Ohm's Law, this means you could achieve the same voltage reduction to the controller using a simple 150Ω resistor! Additionally, these values mean the resistor will only be dissipating a measly 22mW of power, so you can use pretty much any resistor, including small/discreet/inexpensive resistors. And if you're using something like a 1/4 W resistor, I'm sure you could cover the resistor in heat shrink without any ill effects for a very sleek inline appearance.
I have a box of resistors laying around here somewhere but I'll be damned if I can find them. Oh well, a nice 1,050 piece kit of resistors (38 different values) on Amazon is $10.50 with tax. These are 1/4 watt and have a ±1% tolerance. Added bonus, if my measurements are off, I have other resistor values to experiment with. I have purchased it and will experiment again when it is delivered on Monday. If it works, I think you will be hard pressed to finding a cheaper, easier solution.
Apologies, brain fart. Been a while since engineering school.
I neglected to consider that the circuit already contains resistance so adding a resistor in series really makes this a voltage divider problem. This requires you to know what the existing circuit resistance is.
I just measured it on my car and got 14.9kΩ. Solving the voltage divider equation for R1 and plugging in the appropriate values, I calculate that what I need is approximately a 2.2kΩ resistor. Thankfully, it's one of the 38 values in the Amazon kit I bought.
You don't even need to bother with calculating the new current and power because both will go down from what was previously calculated when installing another resistor in series.
I will report back as soon as I have a chance to test the resistors.
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Resistors did not work. I tested several different values from the assortment and none of them had any effect. This leads me to believe that the issue has less to do with the actual voltage itself and more to do with the voltage transient or noise. This could probably be addressed through the use of capacitors and/or noise filters, but I'm not sure it's worth it to continue experimenting since the total effort will be about the same.
I have contacted Dan at DTBL. He seems interested in seeing if he can integrate it into his design.
Good info thru your efforts! Hopefully Dan can come up with a fix.
LipschitzWrath, here's the deal with mine. I was messing with my CAI today which is in the area I snipped the turn signal trigger wires so I hooked the left TS trigger wire back up. I'm not sure what you're running, but all my related bulbs are standard filament style with Daytime BL add on's. My OEM turn signal bulbs and dash indicator all flash at the correct normal rate and the DBL strobe in sequence with the turn signals at a rate of about 3 flashes for each one flash of the turn bulb.
I thought SHOdded had it nailed with the comment about using Forscan or IDS to turn off the hyperflash, but everything I can find or watch on Youtube seems to indicate it's for turning off the warning feature (fast flash on the IP) that lets you know you have a bulb out (or in our case the low LED draw making the BCM think a bulb is out), or slowing down the flash rate of the actual LED bulb with forscan. Well that all went to hell when I realized that ALL my OEM turn signal bulbs and dash indicator are flashing at the correct rate and it's ONLY the turn signal operation on the Daytime BL LED's are hyper flashing. The issue has to be either related to the DBL module, or possibly the resistance of the LED's used in their lamp asm causing the module to wig out.
Months ago when I had talked with Dan he had made a comment that it was only the Taurus modules failing. I have no way of knowing if that's true or not, but if it is, I'd be curious if we have a higher or lower number of LED's in our Taurus lamp unit.
I'm going to be ass deep in work for the next month, lots of recalls with several manufacturers to go with the normal work load, but if any of you want to contact me to work on getting this resolved if you have ideas or get any more information from Dan feel free to email me-killerbombo@aim.com and I'd be happy to try some things on my car. I'd also be interested in knowing how you wired the voltage regulator that fixed the issue, obviously in doing so, you've corrected a fault. If nothing else, adding the regulator in a discrete location wouldn't be a bad thing.
Good luck and thanks for the work put in,
Mark
Hmm,wonder if the switchbacks on PI models will apply to this!
There is much info on modifying guides especially on the PI! TOL. Z