E 85? why not?

76fomoco · June 11, 2019, 12:22:40 AM

I spend a lot of time at the track and see a lot of boosted new rides running full e85 tunes. so why not the sho? I'm betting the HPFP is lower on flow but..... now this is where the smart guys give input.. I see we have a lot of E30 tunes but why not more?

802SHO · June 11, 2019, 05:05:32 AM

Quote from: 76fomoco on June 11, 2019, 12:22:40 AM
I spend a lot of time at the track and see a lot of boosted new rides running full e85 tunes. so why not the sho? I'm betting the HPFP is lower on flow but..... now this is where the smart guys give input.. I see we have a lot of E30 tunes but why not more?

I just want to fall under the "smart guy" category so that's why I'm posting. Carry on......

It's a great question, why not full E85? There is a guy, Rich Yaklin Jr who spent a lot of money trying to do that and had various issues. I believe Livernois is claiming they have SHO customers with their HPFP...not sure which one, there's two....and running on full E85. You can get away with E30 stock HPFP.

Jordan now has the XDI pump and I believe he is still using e30. It would be nice to hear from Jordan, what his thoughts are on E85 as he could potentially be one to go that route.

As an end game.....Full E85, upgraded HPFP would be very potent and I would like to know what kind of perfomance that delivers as well.

ZSHO · June 11, 2019, 06:42:02 AM

I think Jacob is still running Full E85-Auxiliary Fuel system on his 13+SHO IIRC! Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=808.0

Jordan · June 11, 2019, 07:11:57 AM

Quote from: 802SHO on June 11, 2019, 05:05:32 AM
Quote from: 76fomoco on June 11, 2019, 12:22:40 AM
I spend a lot of time at the track and see a lot of boosted new rides running full e85 tunes. so why not the sho? I'm betting the HPFP is lower on flow but..... now this is where the smart guys give input.. I see we have a lot of E30 tunes but why not more?

I just want to fall under the "smart guy" category so that's why I'm posting. Carry on......

It's a great question, why not full E85? There is a guy, Rich Yaklin Jr who spent a lot of money trying to do that and had various issues. I believe Livernois is claiming they have SHO customers with their HPFP...not sure which one, there's two....and running on full E85. You can get away with E30 stock HPFP.

Jordan now has the XDI pump and I believe he is still using e30. It would be nice to hear from Jordan, what his thoughts are on E85 as he could potentially be one to go that route.

As an end game.....Full E85, upgraded HPFP would be very potent and I would like to know what kind of perfomance that delivers as well.

Need lpfp upgrade to run any sort of full e85 reliably at over stock powers to be safe imo. There are a couple sho with port injection and an auxiliary system. My understanding though is that these cars can run so much timing with only E30 that the benefit of e85 isn't really there. I wouldn't even consider running full e85 unless I had big turbos. These stock exhaust housings being so restrictive that you are going to be mostly tapped out at 450awhp with methanol/hpfp upgrade. They are the absolute limit of the platform.

E30 is running 23-24 degrees of timing and that's a ton of timing. Throwing more at it is just going to cause the engine to fight itself so the benefit of the higher octane is basically nullified, but then again I have no actual information to link to say this is true, just what I've heard... I'm also no tuner on top of that

With the hpfp and E30 there is no benefit other than full mileage to run race fuel like I used to on the stock pump. If that puts the octane into perspective.

StealBlueSho · June 11, 2019, 07:40:09 AM

We need a low pressure pump upgrade... with the XDI-35 (bigger HPFP) and bigger turbos... the fuel system is maxing out just under 500awhp...

Matt even in his testing with non-ethanol race fuel found that the stock low side pump can't keep up with much if any over 500awhp.....

There is a drop in low pressure pump in testing now....

E85 would be cool, but at this point... not feasible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shoNoff · June 11, 2019, 12:24:05 PM

God I wish I could get this e85 you guys speak of

SHOdded · June 11, 2019, 12:30:20 PM

Built motor + bigger turbos + methanol + stock LPFP/HPFP/injectors + tune > 600 AWHP

Stock motor + bigger turbos + E85 upgraded LPFP/dual injection system/manifold + tune > 600 AWHP

FoMoCoSHO · July 06, 2019, 03:41:48 PM

I've been running a blend of 5 gallons of 87 topped with E85 getting excellent results. Some would say that 87 is the best fuel if you take knock out of the equation, I'd be inclined to agree. Copious amounts of E85 suppress 87's inherent volatility. Rail seems much happier than when I was blending premium. The last 1st thru 3rd log showed pressure above 2K at all times. KR is a non issue, especially after the entire timing set was rebuilt.

I think a big problem is excessive enrichment killing the rail when its not necessary.

Anything more than what is needed to keep knock suppressed and exhaust temps in check just kills VE, stresses the pump out, and wastes fuel.

The only "issue" I have with big spark is that it pulls like a freight train in any gear/rpm. Throttle response is razor sharp. OAR has been "enhanced" for PT response as well. I would try MBT spark tables but one problem is with this much corn the engine would probably grenade before we saw any knock. The other problem is Brad might have a nervous breakdown, lol. Safety first, at least until I decide to build a motor. If I go that route we will turn it up until it pops, you know, for science....lol.

A bunch of work was just completed including a cracked CAC tube and a new strategy so new logs coming soon.

Reminder....After a trip to the dealership ALWAYS check your strategy even if you are repairing something seemingly unrelated. When they programmed the rack, IDS automatically updated the calibration or maybe the new rack required it....the only thing that stopped disaster was SHOdded's nagging voice and finger pointing in my head. LOL, thanks buddy!

76fomoco · July 06, 2019, 10:36:52 PM

All very good info...Now I wait for Brads update to my e30 logs..... I fill like he's my pimp

Macgyver · July 07, 2019, 08:04:36 PM

E85 works. Brad will tune it for you. I think I am at 10 PSI boost with E85 and do not know the spark etc That keeps the fuel pressure in check but the fuel mileage is teribad around town. If the E85 is cheap enough. It saves ya a couple bucks a tank. It is definitely faster than stock but not Race fast or as fast as his E30 tune. Brad had told be that the benefits of power beyond E30. Lets say E40. E50 are not worth the gains you get if any.

FoMoCoSHO · July 07, 2019, 08:47:17 PM

Quote from: Macgyver on July 07, 2019, 08:04:36 PM
E85 works. Brad will tune it for you. I think I am at 10 PSI boost with E85 and do not know the spark etc That keeps the fuel pressure in check but the fuel mileage is teribad around town. If the E85 is cheap enough. It saves ya a couple bucks a tank. It is definitely faster than stock but not Race fast or as fast as his E30 tune. Brad had told be that the benefits of power beyond E30. Lets say E40. E50 are not worth the gains you get if any.

I wouldn't say that's entirely correct. 50-50 gives you 90% of the benefits of full E85 in DI applications with benefit dropping as you blend down.

I had a 10 PSI big spark tune but I had no issues running my full tune with my current mix and power levels this year. When I asked the Mrs if she'd like me to load the winter tune to minimize cold weather fill up time she said hell no, lol. I guess we know why she gets worse gas mileage than I did when driving it.

Pros above E50
Increased knock headroom
Cleaner engine
More money goes to American farmers who don't tend to fund terror activities
Bigger "big spark"
Later and less WOT enrichment needed...helps VE, consumption, and rail pressure.
Shiny exhaust tips
Less soot formation (pollution)

Cons
Crap MPG
Increased fuel dilution (more frequent oil changes may be needed)
EGT's, corn can burn very hot and ends up being the main factor in your enrichment schedule as knock is a non-issue.
Possible decrease in fuel component life cycle (I think this is mitigated with blends that have added lubricity from the additives from the straight gas)

SHOdded · July 08, 2019, 07:00:10 AM

Still not running a catchcan, FoMo?

FoMoCoSHO · July 08, 2019, 11:51:31 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 08, 2019, 07:00:10 AM
Still not running a catchcan, FoMo?

Nope...

SM105K · July 09, 2019, 09:35:22 AM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 08, 2019, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on July 08, 2019, 07:00:10 AM
Still not running a catchcan, FoMo?
Nope...

This is what comes out of mine every 3k miles........

FoMoCoSHO · July 09, 2019, 03:27:22 PM

Quote from: SM105K on July 09, 2019, 09:35:22 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 08, 2019, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on July 08, 2019, 07:00:10 AM
Still not running a catchcan, FoMo?
Nope...

This is what comes out of mine every 3k miles........

I mean, that looks really scary...If we take that amount and divide it by the gazillion engine revolutions over your last 3K miles...Is there really an issue? Is it an issue that can be overcome by quality fuel and oil? Or an extra oil change maybe? The answer is probably "it depends" based on a crapload of variables.

The reality is this car is driven around 3K a year so the oil is changed every 1500.

I scoped the backside of the valves around 107K and it looked surprisingly good. I was expecting the worst because I don't get the impression the previous owner was too concerned with things like fuel quality.

PCV/valve cover update done.

Turbos were just inspected, everything looks good.

Our car just went out of warranty but modified PCV is a sure way to encounter warranty headaches depending on your servicing dealership.

So for now, I will continue to "roll dirty" without a catchcan.