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A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....

Started by bpd1151, May 17, 2019, 09:37:05 PM

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Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: 802SHO on July 16, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
Symptoms of a fuel wash most certainly include fouled spark plugs and excessive fuel dilution in the oil.  Mikes spark plugs installed with the new injectors were not fouled and showed no signs of excessive fuel consumption in the cylinder than normal.  Its not like you guys said we had to pull your plugs bc they were fouled....you guys like to pull plugs just bc....so you don't have issues...thats what I was told when I recieved an estimate for meth install and asked why you would charge me for plugs when mine were new.  And you guys changed the oil, yes?  That oil would have excessive fuel in it...did you mention that or save it?  Saving it would certainly be common sennse, no? 

Ok can you explain why Mikes car ran pig rich and wouldn't run properly? Read the link I sent. Its close to what I can explain.

Fuel wash can happen and when the right calibration was put in they can clean up. Mike even says his car ran rough.

You say common sense right no? Would putting in larger injectors and not telling anyone be common sense no?

802SHO

#181
So stupid right then what does that make you for saying...here ya go buddy....heres your special "make sure it's broke" tune drive her on down.
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

Jordan

Am I the only one who just read LMS compare themselves to Trump LOL...

From sitting back at this whole thing here my observation. Owner wants to do something that lms says can't work, lms proceeds anyways. Takes obscene amount of time and in that time also overcharges for minimal work, takes the customer on a ride of " what's being done", which employee can handle this customer today, oh btw we have extra products you can buy that you don't need.

And LMS wants to compare themselves to Trump in the sense that they never do any wrong. Practically comical in my opinion.
World's Fastest SHO Ecoboost July 2019 - Current

2020 Power Numbers - 536AWHP/647Torque

shoNoff

#183
What lms is failing to see here is it's not just the motor broke. It's the attitude towards one of their best Ecoboost customers. And all us potential customers. Any time you say anything to them they attack your intelligence. You claim free free free on here yet we see mikes texts from you that don't claim the same. Did mike do some wrong sure. Did you guys do some wrong absolutely. Then you compare yourself to trump that is friggin laughable. My favorite part of the entire thing was the balls to ask mike for the injectors that are "trash" for free. Hilarious

I will leave with one of my favorite quotes. "When you're good at something you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something they'll tell you" Walter Payton.
2013 SHO PP 12.51 @ 110.07 AJP tuned sold
2016 edge sport 13.92 @ 99.4 mph. slow and stock baby mobile

SM105K

#184
Quote from: ZSHO on July 16, 2019, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.
@ SMK- Need to stay cool Brother! No worries we will let it "run its course" or until deemed otherwise! Z

Z, I get it.  However, I don't believe any thread should be closed (permanently), except if there is a direct physical threat of violence.  I have seen too many times on other boards (LS1Tech) and have seen leaked emails from sponsor companies threatening the operators of the boards that they will to take "their" money elsewhere over a legit customer's concern or wrong doing.  Ultimately the board falls to pressure and the thread is removed.  Further down the road the same company screws another person. It was/is flat out censorship and it should not be tolerated.  I was banned from LS1Tech numerous times because I was fighting numerous companies on behalf of the little guy. One big thread was the Kentucky Turbo screw job.  I think I was banned four times over it.  I just don't like bullies.   

The first time this thread was paused was for a justifiable cause.  Both sides needed to present information.  I thank and applaud the mods of this board for letting the dialogue continue when evidence was presented.  I have seen so many threads disappear or stay closed regardless of outcome in the past.

During this whole conversation and even on the SHOforum, I have asked the questions and called out LMS over numerous things.  It got to the point Dan Millen personally contacted me and we actually had a phone conversation over numerous matters.  I have tried to bring as much info to the surface because it only helps the community.  I have no horse in this race.  I wish no ill will on anyone, however if is someone is lying or a product is putting vehicles at risk, you are damn right I am going to speak up and be extremely blunt about it.       

"M" 2013 SHO PP | AJPTurbo E30 Tune | FS HPFP | Stock IC with Ice Water DIY Sprayer | PPE Downpipes | Custom Magnaflow Resonator | 3rd Cat Delete | Derale Upgraded Trans Cooler | Dicunzolo Gen2 Trans Mounts| EPP Noisemaker Eliminator | MSD Coil Over Plugs | SP-542's | UPR Dual Valve Catch Can | K&N Drop In | Power Stop Slotted and Drilled Rotors with Stock PP Pads | H&R Springs  | AVS Flush Deflector | 802SHO Custom Splitter | Duraflex Chin Spoiler | Curva Concept C7's | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber | 411 HP and 546 TQ |

"The Fukus" 2013 Focus ST | Boomba BOV | FSWerks Short Shifter | Power Stop Brakes | Continental DWS06 Extreme Contact Rubber |

SHOdded

Mike, it comes to down doing what you need to do and us doing what we need to do.  When a certain amount of acrimony is building up in the thread, and what could be perceived as acrimonious, as moderators, we step in and remind when/where needed.  There should be NO room for namecalling, but alas, it has been happening.  This thread has not been locked again since bpd requested it be opened, but if there is only speculation and no information forthcoming, as we can plainly see is happening again, no reason why it should stay open.  As long as the posts add value to the thread, the thread stays open, but a certain amount of decorum must be maintained.  And that is all there is to say.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Blackhawk

I've never been an LMS fan mostly based on pricing compared to other available options.  My take is that both parties share blame for the situation.  LMS should have stuck to their guns about the injectors from the beginning but tried to work with a customer.  The injectors should have never been installed without tuning at installation time.  Just my 2 cents

ZSHO

#187
I would also mention Politics of any kind should be refrained from the board! TIA. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Autowizzard

Hi all! I am new here but not to Ecoboosts, I own a Flex EB with 249K and offer lots of help on Flex Forums and other EB pages. I have been the Installer of almost every part on Mikes Car. I rarely get into these debates but another opinion can't hurt. I have a very small shop in the Joliet area, Finishline Cars. I have worked on Mikes car starting with the turbo install to removing the current engine. I have noting to gain or loose here but do have some facts I would like to share and Questions for Dan and LMS. Before I start I will Say Mikes car is one of the most maintained and babied cars out there. He is big into details and Iv'e almost been scared to do some projects as I do not want to make a mistake or damage anything. Anyway I would like to share some info and facts. If You have a question or comment please let me know..


So we Installed Injectors and Intercooler on Mikes car, New Motorcraft Plugs(gapped correctly) and Upstream sensors (fronts) were installed. a Scan tool was present upon start up, These Injectors Flow 30%ish more than stock, After start up a rich condition was observed and the Ecm did it's job by Removing fuel, Fuel Trims were -35% up as a average. The car did set PO172 and P0175 System Rich codes, Watching Sensors and the fact the car was able to correct Mike and I decided to have him drive the 9 mile drive home. He was then given a tune by LMS to drive there. He had no engine light for misfires and no Rich codes on trip. The car was out of my hands from here out until it returned so I have a few Questions for Dan or anyone who wants to chime in

Dan,

1. If a Car came to your shop (especially with a fuel modification that you were not sure of) Wouldn't you Ask Customer to do a Oil change and maybe Just to be safe and even send oil out for a analysis. Also why would you even think to put it on a dyno if there was a 1% chance of oil contamination? I wouldn't have driven 50 feet if I thought the oil might have a issue.  We do a oil level and visual on even 500 beaters in my shop before we start any vehicle.

2. As you know ODB Vehicles are able to correct Rich or lean conditions, This platform can go pretty far as Iv'e seen almost 50% correction to keep Lambda (ecm perfect fuel ratio) so Unless your tuner turns that function off, This vehicle should have been able to correct (with a check engine light) A/F ratios, And then you made a Tune so it got even better so Mike could drive it.

3. If you Thought these Injectors were so bad and Could cause such damage, Why did you not advise Mike to tow the car to you, He owns a suv and can always use my trailer for a trip.

4. Your staff Advised Mike his few hundred mile spark plugs were "bad", I installed them in my 249K mile Flex (tuned elsewhere) and am almost at 5k miles with no misfires or issues, I even trust it enough that a Family member has been driving it for 3 weeks

5. You claimed that you had dropped the subframe and make tow driver wait for your guys to put back together. Please tell me how you were able to drop the frame without cutting or unwiring the vehicles LED lighting, I'm sure you know Mikes car has extensive aftermarket wiring. The wiring was hardwired and there are no plugs to disconnect to do repair work(pain for sure) Either your mechanics are way more skilled than myself ( a ASE tech) or didn't happenedd as I had to cut 4 wires in order to remove subframe. Also I'm shocked how you would remove the Subframe without any socket witness marks on the bolts ( do you use high end rubber lined sockets? )

LostnEye

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:10:47 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

I don't know what facts you like to see other than Mike put in injectors that caused fuel wash and the engine broke. Could some things have been done differently absolutely. But we're living in the real world in the real world not everything is perfect.

This kind of reminds me how Donald Trump is treated in the media. It does seem no matter what we say here it's going to be our fault.
You dug your own hole with how your company is perceived. Mike's involvement on forums and that car was one of the reasons I and I'm sure others looked to Livernois for modding their SHOs however from how your issued with the V11 2013+ tunes and what's worse how it was handled changed a lot of opinions. I'll also throw out there I spoke to someone at Ford Nationals who had work performed at your shop during the time Mike's car was there who mentioned seeing Mike's car parked outside and upon mentioning he was familiar with the car was offered full access with the interior and trunk being opened. He declined as in his and my opinion this is not how you show off customers cars.

The possibility of fuel dilution aside:

1. We are trying to judge the moral character of two individuals whom I would guess most forum users have never met. The tow driver and now Mike's local shop have conflicting stories to yours combined with your already tarnished reputation due to tunes that have issues in cold weather leading to unsafe conditions(I have a log with fuel pressure dropping to 800psi at the rail) you have to expect some skepticism here.   
1. Mike provided oil analysis of the oil that was in the motor when it was back in his possession. If the oil and filter were changed while you still had possession of the car, where is any evidence, pics, oil analysis, etc.
2. You are really standing by the machine work here? Regardless if it was a direct cause of failure which you maintain it was not and at least in this context I will take as fact, the deck surface is visibly poorly machined.
2013 Tuxedo Black/Mayan Grey PP, GH AO, GH IC, H&Rs, AD mounts

Agentlongwood

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:36:26 AM
Please explain how you would handle this?

Like a PR professional.  Issue 1, and only 1, public statement on the topic saying something like "Unfortunately we do not discuss individual customer cases on public forums.  Rest assured, any customer not completely satisfied with out services will be a top priority for us as we work toward a mutually satisfactory resolution."

Arguing with customers in a public forum is NEVER going to improve a company's public perception.  It can only hurt it.  Having someone post a negative experience is bad, for sure.  But arguing with that customer in public is way worse.  It's not something a company can "win." Even if a hypothetical company was in the right.  Arguing just damages their image as professionals.  You just gotta take the high road: Keep quiet, work with the customer as best you can, deal with the outcome (good or bad) like a pro.

Man... I know, nobody wants to take PR advice from a forum user who's name is a phallic joke, but "Agent Longwood Public Relations" is available for all your PR needs.  Our firm works long and hard to make you look good. 
2014 Lincoln MKS - Sold... And I still miss it sometimes

76fomoco

At this point 2 guys doing their dirty laundry in a public washer has no good outcome. :(
2013 PP AJP E30 160 TS, sp542 plugs, 3 bar, PPE catted DP's, GH IC, GH turbos, XDI-35, EPP hot and intake
Best 3-29-21  11.85 with 3000 DA
DA trap best 117.96
E30 = 492 whp, 536 wtq
E30+meth 498 whp, 539 wtq

Jordan

Quote from: 76fomoco on July 16, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
At this point 2 guys doing their dirty laundry in a public washer has no good outcome. :(

I think of this thread as more of Mike's review and experience with LMS. Unhappy customer going to have an unhappy review
World's Fastest SHO Ecoboost July 2019 - Current

2020 Power Numbers - 536AWHP/647Torque

MKS Tom

The sad thing is to see what looks two friends have a bad business transaction transpire and it lead to such a disaster.

I always tell people to stay clear of LMS simply because we have several really talented SCT tuners to choose from from and I like the idea of giving business to an independent like that.  I have no intention on going to the extreme of ever going beyond a stock block and will only add a few other bolt ons anyways so they aren't an appealing options in those regards. 
2013 Lincoln MKS ecoboost, 70,000 miles.  3 bar map 93 tune (E30 in the future) by both AJP Turbo and Ortiz Performance.  PPE catted down pipes, EPP dual CAI (not yet installed so K&N drop in), .026 gapped SP542, 170 degree thermostat, Dynomax axlebacks, and Power Stop Z23 pads and rotors.

TSS

Very sad for the car. One of my favorites. My condolences regardless of how it came about.

Todd
2010 Steel Blue Metallic MKS Ecoboost: LME 3-Bar Tuned; tint; 20" Factory rims Permachromed

2017 Summit White Buick Envision Premium AWD 2.0 Turbo
2017 Silver Cadillac XTS V-Sport Platinum  3.6 Twin Turbo; LME tuned.