A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....

[Livernois Motorsports]

A rod bearing spinning is not the car breaking. it didn't burn up, or break a component.

Once we learned that the car was driven without having a tune in it for the injectors, it added up, which made us check the oil. And yeah, we already said we knew we should have stuck to our guns. that's the beauty of hindsight. It's a reminder that no matter what personal relationships we have with customers, we do things a certain way for a reason. We shouldn't have let Mike persuade us to do something we knew was a waste.

Did you also see where we offered to do all of that work for free? It's not like we threw sand in his eyes. We wanted to help, but it's his car, and his choice. just like the injectors were.

[GhostlyGrenade]

i spun a rod bearing years ago driving way too hard on a twisty road. starved the pump with the factory pan...no baffles or extra capacity.
a hard lesson learned when i spent every dime to go faster. i know oil is the main component for long life for any engine. modern tech has made engines and reliabilty unreal by comparison to just 10 years ago even. hopefully an oil sample was obtained for analysis.

[Dxlnt1]

It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

[Livernois Motorsports]

Half truths.... half the story.... Livernois PR department ramping up the rhetoric.


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let's do the math

item's disclosed:

engine damaged
time at livernois
mileage at livernois
1 full pull
plugs changed
deadline

items that are not true:
we were shown/told what to change in the calibration
we were misleading OP about mileage/pulls

items not disclosed:
partial pull attempts not possible due to injectors
driven without tune for injectors for unknown mileage
plugs changed because OP didn't believe injectors were fault
Rod bearing failure was known before removal of engine by 3rd party
offered potentially free removal, repair, and reinstall by Livernois
OP didn't pay us anything for parts, or labor for any work provided (dyno, plugs, plugs change, pump install, injector swap, partial removal of engine, reassembly of vehicle)
advanced knowledge of injectors not working
car was close to deadline because injector change not ok'd until about 1 week before deadline, and we had to wait for stock ones to be cleaned/flowed rather than installing new ones

PR machine this is not, try someone that was right there the entire time throughout the process

[Livernois Motorsports]

It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.

[StealBlueSho]

It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


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[ZSHO]

To be fair there is some truth there followed by a hint of underlying issues which in turn can be clarified by the OP to its entirety.

Lets keep our discussions grounded and straight to the point! I appreciate your cooperation on the Topic on hand. TIA. Z

[Livernois Motorsports]

It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


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So you were on the phone for the calls? I was there. He was offered more than likely free, and we said we'd start tearing into it right away. I had our guys start within about 20 minutes and then a truck showed up for it the next business day as we were dropping the cradle out. Then another call was made as none of us had any idea why a flatbed was here for it after already letting him know it was free. we reiterated about 5 times what we intended on doing, he decided not to, so we reassembled the car for him.

Your situation was different, you got jerked around by a sales person, had a long, long conversation with us about it, and we let you know he was no longer employed here for various reasons.

you informed us you weren't going to have us do the install, and had a much better understanding of what the various costs were on the estimate that that sales person didn't understand. Upon circling back internally with the info relayed to us by you about the interaction we decided to make one last offer to do free labor to try to help out, and now that's a negative?

I guess no good deed really does go unpunished. We have always operated under the practice of own your mistakes, and if the situation calls for it, help out when you can even if it wasn't our fault.

[ZSHO]

Both sides of the FULL story should be heard in its entirety and NOT Speculate! Z

[Dxlnt1]

It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.

It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.

Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.

[StealBlueSho]

It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


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So you were on the phone for the calls? I was there. He was offered more than likely free, and we said we'd start tearing into it right away. I had our guys start within about 20 minutes and then a truck showed up for it the next business day as we were dropping the cradle out. Then another call was made as none of us had any idea why a flatbed was here for it after already letting him know it was free. we reiterated about 5 times what we intended on doing, he decided not to, so we reassembled the car for him.

Your situation was different, you got jerked around by a sales person, had a long, long conversation with us about it, and we let you know he was no longer employed here for various reasons.

you informed us you weren't going to have us do the install, and had a much better understanding of what the various costs were on the estimate that that sales person didn't understand. Upon circling back internally with the info relayed to us by you about the interaction we decided to make one last offer to do free labor to try to help out, and now that's a negative?

I guess no good deed really does go unpunished. We have always operated under the practice of own your mistakes, and if the situation calls for it, help out when you can even if it wasn't our fault.

A: You never told me you fired Cody. As a matter of fact, while talking with Andy, I specifically said that I hope he doesn't get into trouble because he clearly didn't understand what was involved. It would have been a great opportunity for LMS to teach/help Cody. Honestly, when I found out from someone on this forum he had been fired, I felt terrible, as that wasn't my intent as per our conversation.

B: No, the offer of a free install wasn't negative. However, the phone call from Andy started as "I know you said no, but he were able to work out a solution, do you mind looking at this quote?" And my response was that I was no longer interested. And then the underhanded "Well that's a shame cause we were gonna give you a free install" came. So the offer clearly didn't feel sound sincere. More of a CYA.

C: I wasn't on the phone calls for sure... but then again... who knows who was looped in...





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[Livernois Motorsports]

A: You never told me you fired Cody. As a matter of fact, while talking with Andy, I specifically said that I hope he doesn't get into trouble because he clearly didn't understand what was involved. It would have been a great opportunity for LMS to teach/help Cody. Honestly, when I found out from someone on this forum he had been fired, I felt terrible, as that wasn't my intent as per our conversation.

B: No, the offer of a free install wasn't negative. However, the phone call from Andy started as "I know you said no, but he were able to work out a solution, do you mind looking at this quote?" And my response was that I was no longer interested. And then the underhanded "Well that's a shame cause we were gonna give you a free install" came. So the offer clearly didn't feel sound sincere. More of a CYA.

C: I wasn't on the phone calls for sure... but then again... who knows who was looped in...

You're assuming what specifically happened with an individual and tying it directly to your interaction. We never said this was the situation, we never said the person was let go, we said he wasn't here for various reasons. Those reasons could be resignation, termination, or lay off. I think you're giving yourself too much credit.

It wasn't lack of sincerity, it was being bummed because we felt we worked up a really good deal for you and you didn't even want to see it. I could show you the timestamps on conversations where we decided to do that before you said you didn't want to see the revised estimate.

I honestly don't know what has happened to so many of you to have such distrust of others. It's actually really sad to see.

[Livernois Motorsports]

Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.

We built the engine over 5 years ago, even Ford doesn't warranty an engine that long and that's when it makes half the power Mike's made. We offered to handle it, him declining and taking it elsewhere and thinking we should pay is odd to say the least. To us transparency is the most important aspect of any relationship. professional, personal, and those that involve both aspects. We were through the entire process, and are being so right now.

[SHOdded]

Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

[Dxlnt1]

Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.

We built the engine over 5 years ago, even Ford doesn't warranty an engine that long and that's when it makes half the power Mike's made. We offered to handle it, him declining and taking it elsewhere and thinking we should pay is odd to say the least. To us transparency is the most important aspect of any relationship. professional, personal, and those that involve both aspects. We were through the entire process, and are being so right now.

I havent read him asking for any assistance from you. Those were my comments and suggestions.

In those 5 years, he has continued coming back to you for various updates, improvements etc. He has won much just as you have. Its hard to put a dollar value to what your reputation is worth? Again, I suggest do what you can to mend that relationship. OR, if you write him off what lost opportunities and business will you NOT see in the future as a result? Maybe you care? Maybe you dont? But your business motta should govern here. Best of luck to you both. He may have been among the first for you to really help expand your ecoboost offerings.