A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....

[StealBlueSho]

So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




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[ZSHO]

I think we all should take a break to digest all the INFO and especially all the quote on quotes in order to keep this thread going!
In the meantime let's take a deep breath and inhale and exhale which does wonders for stress! TIA. Z 

[griggs95]

I think we all should take a break to digest all the INFO and especially all the quote on quotes in order to keep this thread going!
In the meantime let's take a deep breath and inhale and exhale which does wonders for stress! TIA. Z

Deep breaths always help, excellent advice!

I definitely think there was some miscommunication involved even as there was over communication (if that makes sense). I find this a lot in today's world with texting and emails. I find texting one the lowest forms of communication actually. Face to face or over the phone is the only true communication there is.

I'm hoping to share what little knowledge I have to help resolve this between two ecoboost pioneers.

One question I didn't see answered about is the mileage of the 5 year old motor that was destroyed?

[6500rpm]

About fuel dilution-there's damage all over that engine. Bearings, cam lobes, piston skirts *and none of it has blued from heat*, meaning it may very well have lost it's lubrication property. I didn't notice it at first, but even the rods and caps show no sign of excess heat from what I can see in the pics. The piston skirts show scaring. If the rings were washed out I can see that causing similar damage. They stated it wouldn't run over 3k rpm-if the rings were washed out they won't seal properly, you get a lot of compression loss on top of the over fueling. If it is fuel related, I don't have a clue that it's a sole fault of the injectors, the tune, or a bit of both. Once again, the log files from the pulls might show some things of value, especially fuel trim, O2, misfire values. There seems to be two trains of thought going on, I look at things from a Tech perspective wanting to know what happened to the engine,and for better or worse, many of the posts seem to revolve around integrity issues of the two men. Shame things turned out like this.

[ryanp49]

I don't have a dog in this fight but... One thing that's not being discussed is the piston to wall clearance...either those were set too loose from the get go or those piston skirts were collapsing. Fuel dilution is not going to make your pistons shrink...also that highly polished area on the skirts towards the bottom matches with damage you'd see from the piston rocking at the bottom of the cylinder wall causing the skirt of the piston to slap the cylinder wall. I bet if you look down in the cylinder bores you'll see the same polished area at the bottom of the bores.

[6500rpm]

^^^Agreed

The damage to the piston skirts is also troubling and typical of what GM had going on their 3.1L engines around 2000/2001 where there was too much clearance and short skirts.

In the case of the GM engines, we replaced hundred's of engines due to this (I did about 60 over a 3 month period). Damaged load side of the piston which wore off a teflon patch they had on them and associated piston wall "finger nail scratches" that couldn't be machined out per GM. Typically they came in with a cold engine knock that went away or was reduced as the engine warmed up and the piston expanded, but the damage was done.

[802SHO]

What facts I pick up on is the fact that Mike drove his car 15 miles from the shop that performed the installation of his new mods including the injectors to his home.  Saying it was running 🐖 rich was more than likely an exaggeration tainted with excitement.  Getting all these new mods done is exciting.  I'm not sure why Dan for legal purposes would hold onto that statement.  Is it pure fact that even 2 miles can cause excessive fuel dilution with larger injectors?  How can that statement be proved?  If the engine was shut off and diagnosed perhaps?  Based on Dan's response Mike asked if he should trailer it.  At that point (sounding as concerned as he was) he dropped the ball in my opinion.  Why not say yes?  I find it negligible on Dan's part to dismiss getting it towed and writing him a tune to drive it further......to me that was a red flag as Dan 100% contradicted his own judgement.  Perhaps at that point Mike still trusted him.  I think not knowing Dan, Mike would have said...wait...what?  Drive it there?  I thought 2 miles was bad enough? 

But to get the car there, wait a few weeks and get charged the outrageous prices...250 for new plugs installed?  1300 for new injectors installed?  750 just to swap?  Oh hey why don't you buy our direct port meth system...for 1,000 a cylinder?  You guys are lucky to have 1 customer with those prices that aren't even remotely justified if broken down or even with an hourly rate applied.  Unless your Lawyer mechanics as in...i thought I took my car to a shop not a lawyers office.....

You tell him it will be ready and such...to the point...we might have to have someone let you in...to sorry bud it's not happy....to claim to have the engine subframe dropped to hold the car, to get Mike to allow it to stay.  What an absolute horrible customer experience and on this side of tjr tracks....for this platform...Mike was your biggest supporter and strongest customer.  That experience could have been me or anyone else.  He had to try and navigate a sea of misleading and downright untrue statements from multiple members of your staff in regards to the status of his car.  Its an unforgivable customer experience period. 

We better not see LMS supports DW Injectors....ever.  Unbelievable.  Can I have these?  What? 

I'm glad Mike isn't swinging from Dan's n**ts anymore while Dan has both hands in his wallet....or whoever does billing!!!

[FearlessAZ]

As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.

I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

[ZSHO]

As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.

I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

@ SMK- Need to stay cool Brother! No worries we will let it "run its course" or until deemed otherwise! Z

[Livernois Motorsports]

So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

[Livernois Motorsports]

About fuel dilution-there's damage all over that engine. Bearings, cam lobes, piston skirts *and none of it has blued from heat*, meaning it may very well have lost it's lubrication property. I didn't notice it at first, but even the rods and caps show no sign of excess heat from what I can see in the pics. The piston skirts show scaring. If the rings were washed out I can see that causing similar damage. They stated it wouldn't run over 3k rpm-if the rings were washed out they won't seal properly, you get a lot of compression loss on top of the over fueling. If it is fuel related, I don't have a clue that it's a sole fault of the injectors, the tune, or a bit of both. Once again, the log files from the pulls might show some things of value, especially fuel trim, O2, misfire values. There seems to be two trains of thought going on, I look at things from a Tech perspective wanting to know what happened to the engine,and for better or worse, many of the posts seem to revolve around integrity issues of the two men. Shame things turned out like this.

Good observation. But it's so easy to come here after the fact and say what should of been done. What I took was what Mike said. Over the phone he said he started it and that it wasn't long. He said 15 minutes but over the phone it wasn't close to that....now I'm not sure what to believe

Look I can critique any sports play after it happens. Please  let's be honest with ourselves. Mike has some blame here.

What you are failing to realize is the damage from the fuel wash was done in the time Mike had decided to change parts without involving the tuner. Once I corrected the tune the damages were done. So trailer or not he already caused the damage

Yes those are facts.

[Livernois Motorsports]

As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.

I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

I don't know what facts you like to see other than Mike put in injectors that caused fuel wash and the engine broke. Could some things have been done differently absolutely. But we're living in the real world in the real world not everything is perfect.

This kind of reminds me how Donald Trump is treated in the media. It does seem no matter what we say here it's going to be our fault.

[StealBlueSho]

So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

Obviously

No, I think the community is in shock at the quality of the most expensive engine build out there...  s*** happens... we all know that... but to see this quality from a company that touts itself has the leader in ecoboost builds and charges accordingly is disappointing and quit frankly appalling.

I don't know anyone who at this point who sees this information would willing pay for that quality of workmanship.

It's just unfortunate to see such a highly regarded company have such poor QA.

But then again you charge $50 for a $10 motorad thermostat... so maybe NOT so surprising.


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[802SHO]

Symptoms of a fuel wash most certainly include fouled spark plugs and excessive fuel dilution in the oil.  Mikes spark plugs installed with the new injectors were not fouled and showed no signs of excessive fuel consumption in the cylinder than normal.  Its not like you guys said we had to pull your plugs bc they were fouled....you guys like to pull plugs just bc....so you don't have issues...thats what I was told when I recieved an estimate for meth install and asked why you would charge me for plugs when mine were new.  And you guys changed the oil, yes?  That oil would have excessive fuel in it...did you mention that or save it?  Saving it would certainly be common sennse, no? 

[Livernois Motorsports]

So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

Obviously

No, I think the community is in shock at the quality of the most expensive engine build out there...  s*** happens... we all know that... but to see this quality from a company that touts itself has the leader in ecoboost builds and charges accordingly is disappointing and quit frankly appalling.

I don't know anyone who at this point who sees this information would willing pay for that quality of workmanship.

It's just unfortunate to see such a highly regarded company have such poor QA.

But then again you charge $50 for a $10 motorad thermostat... so maybe NOT so surprising.


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We are just trying to defend ourselves.

When people post BS and tell half the story its very disappointing.

I ask what would you do if your were in our position? We have offered to fix it for free but I guess thats not good enough. Even though its not our fault.

And surprise your going to bash us on pricing, you obviously have beef.

I know we build good stuff, reliable and just continue to the right thing. That's all I ask for when something happens to me.

Please explain how you would handle this?

Dan