802SHO 2010 Build

[ZSHO]

Congrats! Nice numbers indeed! 
SBS and you got me a tad bit jelly! Enjoy the extra power. Z

[StealBlueSho]

@ 1:26 in the video you have either a spark blowing out the drive side tail pipe or maybe something from the cat.. lol.. it was for sure giving it all it has...

[802SHO]

@ 1:26 in the video you have either a spark blowing out the drive side tail pipe or maybe something from the cat.. lol.. it was for sure giving it all it has...

Yes I saw that, not sure...I know that after removing the cat and adding the second x pipe, the passenger side gets a little more flow.  Eventually it evens out but from a cold start its super noticeable.
Not sure what's going on with two x pipes balancing exhaust but maybe there was some weld crap in the way and I blew it out lol....wishful thinking anyway

[802SHO]

Nice numbers bud, told you about the TQ huh? Cant wait to see what she does.

Yup and pretty insane if you ask me.  I almost want to detune her lol!

I would.... Nice numbers.... a lot for a stock block...


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Very true indeed

[802SHO]

I'll be installing my hot pipes and second meth nozzle this weekend...even though I don't need a second nozzle....guess I'll just turn the pump down even more and let her breeze by...do a little retuning to make sure everything is still good.  Detune might be in the works.  Save the 19 for track day or something

[SHOdded]

Those turbos are really putting out!   Good idea to back off a bit for daily driving.  Bpd's daily tune was at 500 awhp but he has a built block.  At the very least ARP the heads.  I would still have doubts about the rotating assembly tho.

[802SHO]

Those turbos are really putting out!   Good idea to back off a bit for daily driving.  Bpd's daily tune was at 500 awhp but he has a built block.  At the very least ARP the heads.  I would still have doubts about the rotating assembly tho.

I agree and am equally apprehensive at this power level.  The GearHead turbos are awesome and will support a built motor so its not in vein to purchase them ...you can still use them down the road if you further your build. 

[AJP turbo]

Nice numbers bud, told you about the TQ huh? Cant wait to see what she does.

Yup and pretty insane if you ask me.  I almost want to detune her lol!

I would.... Nice numbers.... a lot for a stock block...


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You should too MR. 484awhp/496awtq! All of these upgraded turbo numbers on these cars soooo far exceed what the stock rods and pistons were made for. It's no different than a drug you want more and more and seemingly can't be satisfied.

[StealBlueSho]

Nice numbers bud, told you about the TQ huh? Cant wait to see what she does.

Yup and pretty insane if you ask me.  I almost want to detune her lol!

I would.... Nice numbers.... a lot for a stock block...


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You should too MR. 484awhp/496awtq! All of these upgraded turbo numbers on these cars soooo far exceed what the stock rods and pistons were made for. It's no different than a drug you want more and more and seemingly can't be satisfied.

LOL!!! Yes we are pushing the motors quite hard... Although, historically 500awtq+ seems to be the point where things start to get really pissy.. stock torque converter has a hard time locking, trans starts to get unhappy although torque management tends to help with that, motors tend to be short lived unless they are hyper maintained and not pushed hard often.

Also why I run Gearheads Auto Octane tune for the most part which is a bit less than the E30 tune.. still 450awhp/480awtq on 93 pump. 

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable running 802SHO's power on just meth alone.. thats a metric SH!T ton of meth lol.. but he has bigger nuts than me!

[AJP turbo]

Tuner asked me if I had a preference for doing the pull.  He actually asked if I wanted to just do a 40 dig until 120...ok!?  Why not?  He loaded the dyno to make the SHO as if it was weighing 6500 pounds.  He with the extra load it will hit boost sooner and hold it longer.  Ok! 

I really wish he would have just done a single gear sweep so we could've seen the curve and I don't like the extra loading and shifting on the dyno because the weight of the rollers and loading but it survived.


Two "digs" on the mustang dyno at 19 psi she made 463awhp and 569 awtq!!!!  With traction control off she squirmed in her restraints .....man it was badass!  I sat shotgun and data logged for Brad!  The dyno has a projection screen in front of it that shows you all the dyno info right in front of you!  Wicked cool!  After the two pulls at 19 psi I flashed back to my 18 psi tune for a comparison.  18 psi pulled 418 awhp and 521awtq.  A big difference between 1psi....roughly 40 awhp and 40 awtq on 1psi.  That's nuts!  All in all it was really fun and I'm really pleased with the numbers.  The tuner looked at AFR which was 12.0 and was equally impressed with the tune as he was with the car. 


Your AFR is actually 11.25 target. I wouldn't run a 12.0 AFR for boost. The shops 02 sensor was probably calibrated and scaled for gasoline which has a stoic of 14.64 but even that would show about 11.76. Stoic of E10 gas is 14.069 so your lambda target of .80 equals 11.25 afr.     Stoic x lambda = AFR


Actually your afr through the pull is about 10.4 to 11.54 so you are plenty rich



And being that you don't have catalytic converters primary or 3rd and your AFR's and nice and healthy and you are spraying meth and a relatively low aircharge temps I didn't think your soot coming out was too bad...I see that a lot on dynos...Your ambient air temp was like 60 degrees and your IAT2 was only 62!!! At that kind of boost and back pressure the exhaust pulses are sucking and getting reversion and cylinders are not totally clearing there is a lot going on. But from a datalog and vitals it all looked nice in the log. Even watching drag strip runs at WOT you often see pufts of soot when going all out especially on a catless car


And your meth and stft's are in the low .80 range so you are probably getting a good cleaning effect being that your meth is accounting for almost 20% of your delivered fuel volume. But it's a lot of power no doubt. The dyno graph looked nice and smooth so I don't see evidence of spark blowout but dyno operators love to leave the smoothing really high.


SBS I see that you have taken well to the "magic number"...I try to stay away from that but it happens with every platform. It's ok to use a magic number for acceptable power as a guide but not bible. What will you do if you crack a ring at 420whp? Will you search for a reason why the failure happened or could you accept that a failure was eminent because you far exceeded design specs? I do non destructive testing on metals by day. Often only "batches" materials will get sampled and tested in a car like this. Unlike a Ferrari that puts every rod through real time radiography. Often a connecting rod or piston can have fractures of discontinuities that exist from day one and never be a problem because of the over engineering but then at increased power defects become exposed and rear their heads when they wouldn't have otherwise.


2 things can be true at the same time: you can have a good tune that exhibits nothing dangerous except power. And you can have a catastrophic failure. It doesn't have to be either or. Often people will look to  the tune when a failure happens but what about the fact that at 484whp you have added over 200 crank HP


My coyote mustang makes 600whp when detuned...Everyone says stay below 650...Not that much difference so if I blow it up at 600 is it the tuners fault? I didn't tune it by the way lol.

I have not doubt you have a great tune but I feel you may have a false sense of security when running as low as even 450whp

[SHOdded]

Is there a way to track engine vibration frequencies in a mesningful way other than knock sensing?  Looking for a good way to gauge rotating assembly/block fatigue.  I guess you would need a good known baseline from Ford first.

[StealBlueSho]

There isn't really a magic number per se.. but based on previous data.. at 500awhp+ / 500awtq+ there is a greater chance of a major problem on stock components and drive train.. I can think of at least 3-4 cars off the top of my head that hit those numbers and then had major failures afterwards... Although yes, we do see many failures below that number as well.. the ratio of failures at 420awhp vs 500+awhp lends itself to the assumption that 500awhp+ seems to be a point where its not matter of if, its a matter of when.

My tuner is fantastic, but if the motor lets loose.. I am sure it wasn't due to an issue in the tune.

[AJP turbo]

There isn't really a magic number per se.. but based on previous data.. at 500awhp+ / 500awtq+ there is a greater chance of a major problem on stock components and drive train.. I can think of at least 3-4 cars off the top of my head that hit those numbers and then had major failures afterwards... Although yes, we do see many failures below that number as well.. the ratio of failures at 420awhp vs 500+awhp lends itself to the assumption that 500awhp+ seems to be a point where its not matter of if, its a matter of when.

My tuner is fantastic, but if the motor lets loose.. I am sure it wasn't due to an issue in the tune.

Precisely. The magic number is what you have referenced many times. Magic numbers are based on previous examples. They become perceived accepted power levels and it's not wise...It's still gambling...So you like safer bets, still gambling. I would rather see power less than 400whp but that's not what everyone is looking for.

Have you ever wondered how you would answer the question as a tuner when someone asks can you please give me as much power as possible while being safe as and conservative as possible...If you have imagined what it would look like when a persons head is about to explode you would see it if yo watch me type a reply to that.


But if your motor fails and you are certain it's not a tune issue your tuner would appreciate that very much...Not everyone is like you because of the perceived magic numbers that are out there. They feel they are on one side of the power line or the other so they were operating in the safe zone or not and if they were they look for reasons when the reason might be as simple as "too much pahwa" but they have been conditioned through internet forums that they should have been safe because they ONLY added 100hp to their stock motor car.


 

[802SHO]

What is safe?  This makes me think of the hot pipes.  Mike had a boost leak in his flex so now everyone making power does?  Its still great for piece of mind, but mine came late, I don't have a boost leak.  How many cars have had major problems and jow many were tuned?  There's only been a handful of SHO's with this much power so are they ALL doomed bc few were?  Plenty of stock SHO's riddle with problems as well.  It's a gamble for sure.  One thing is for sure no one wants problems with their vehicles, modified or not.

[StealBlueSho]

@AJPTurbo... pretty close example? LOL...