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2012+ timing job

Started by buck91, January 16, 2019, 12:15:56 PM

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buck91

We have a 2014 explorer sport with the 3.5EB.  It's throwing the p0016 as well as start up rattle.  Curiously the code came well before the rattle.  Anyways sounds like this is the much maligned timing chain job...  this should have the newer style chains from the factory and has just under 100k.  How common is this issue on the newer parts?

I've done a ton of reading and find some of the nuanced differences between years and models interesting.  Is there anything I need to watch out for on this 2014?  Best I can tell it's the same architecture as the other car based engines and not the same as the f150s. 


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ZSHO



2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Gray Brick

I am getting the start up rattle when cold for about 5 seconds, no trouble codes... car runs fantastic otherwise.

When I disconnect the VVT solenoid electrical connector the rattle is not occurring.

Do these solenoids go bad?
2013 Ecoboost Ford Flex
AJP Tune (ATP+2) in progress , Livernois HPFP, 3 Bar MAP, UPR Catch Can, 100% Methanol w/ braided steel lines, 3" Downpipes -->2.5" X-pipe --> 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust, 2.5" air inlets to each turbo with cone filter, Custom water to air intercooler with chiller
275/40-20 Front 315/35-20 Rear Tires
---12.419ET/112.43MPH @ 5150 lbs in the 1/4---

SHOdded

Sometimes, yes, not often.  IDK if damage is already done to the timing chains, the rattle will grow worse.  Track advance errors on the solenoids, they should be well under 5%, preferably close to 0.  Sudden changes in load/speed are most challenging to implement quickly.  While electronics can respond, their effectiveness is limited by physical element design.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

ZSHO


Good article below on the
The 3.5L V6 (base) engine in the PI sedan use Twin independent Variable Cam Timing, Ti-VCT. That means all four cams are separately controlled by cam phasers and phase solenoids. (The four cams are one intake cam and one exhaust cam for both banks of the V6.) Ti-VCT, or variable valve timing, means each cam can be individually advanced or retarded (with respect to the crank and pistons) to produce the best power and the best fuel economy. Z

https://www.hendonpub.com/police_fleet_manager/articles/2012/1112/ford_nextgen_police_interceptor_tech_training_part



2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

SHOdded

still the internal water pump tho, right?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

ZSHO



2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Gray Brick

I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.
2013 Ecoboost Ford Flex
AJP Tune (ATP+2) in progress , Livernois HPFP, 3 Bar MAP, UPR Catch Can, 100% Methanol w/ braided steel lines, 3" Downpipes -->2.5" X-pipe --> 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust, 2.5" air inlets to each turbo with cone filter, Custom water to air intercooler with chiller
275/40-20 Front 315/35-20 Rear Tires
---12.419ET/112.43MPH @ 5150 lbs in the 1/4---

SHOdded

Did you take it apart like FTM shows on YT?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

802SHO

Quote from: Gray Brick on April 14, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

I'm interested in seeing if this stops my start up rattle.  From what little research I did...did you change bank 2 only? 
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

Gray Brick

I only changed bank 1.

It was worth trying since the alternative is much more expensive.
A timing chain really should not stretch too much after 150k miles.
2013 Ecoboost Ford Flex
AJP Tune (ATP+2) in progress , Livernois HPFP, 3 Bar MAP, UPR Catch Can, 100% Methanol w/ braided steel lines, 3" Downpipes -->2.5" X-pipe --> 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust, 2.5" air inlets to each turbo with cone filter, Custom water to air intercooler with chiller
275/40-20 Front 315/35-20 Rear Tires
---12.419ET/112.43MPH @ 5150 lbs in the 1/4---

802SHO

Bank 2 is easier right ?  My start up rattle is very oil sensitive.  Its very much gone for first 2k miles on a new oil change then returns.  Sitting over night in my garage will also nearly stop it from happening.  Outside over night start up rattle always.  If I start it up after an oil change quickly its really bad.  Ive noticed if I let the car sit for 15 min or so after an oil change before I start it for the first time it is greatly shortened of charter.  And I always prefill my oil filter. 
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

802SHO

Isn't there such a thing as cold starting your vehicle?  I read this somewhere once upon a time.  You put the brake to the floor, gas pedal to the floor at the same time just before you press engine start....hold start and hold your pedals down....engine cranks over for as long as you hold it, priming the oil pump and let go of the gas pedal, starts up without any chatter.  I've done this, it works.  Why?  Dunno
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20

SHOdded

That startup rattle is momentary lack of oil pressure to the timing system.  Which is why using filters with the Motorcraft style ADBV helps keep it to a minimum.  Ester based oils can help reduce the occurrences also, as they are clingy, and  using the correct weight oil (usually 5w30) to provide the cushioning film between metal surfaces.  The filter design though has been important.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

802SHO

#14
I've stuck with motorcraft mostly and get the least occurances of chatter at start up with it.  5w20 my recommended oil weight and Ive tried 5w30 before, not sure it helped or not. 

I've tried Fram Ultra and a WIX filter before and those were by far the worst for chatter. 

Currently trying out a K&N filter with very good results.  Comparible to the motorcraft filter although twice the money.

Will need to try changing the VCT solenoid and see if that further improves the chatter.  I have never owned a car with chatter on start up before....I hate it.
IG @802SHO 2010 SHO non PP, Tuned by AJP Turbo, 109 Octane + VP C85 for E30, Ported GH Gen 3 upgraded turbos, Ported 13+ Exhaust Manifolds, Custom FM IC TreadStone TR10C, EPP Hot Pipes, EPP Dual CAI, XDI35 HPFP, Deatschwerks 300C LPFP, Alky Control Methonal Injection, Alky dual nozzle upgrade, Zex Nitrous dual dry shots, Dicunzolo Gen2 torque mounts, MSD Coils, SP542 .026, 160 T, 3bar, Phenolic Spacer, Braille Lightweight Battery, Kirky Lightweight Racing Driver Seat, Catless Downpipes, custom stainless 2.5" double xpipe w/muffler deletes 4" quad tips, UPR Dual Valve Catch Can, 13+ PP Trans Cooler, Econoaid throttle Body Booster, Bravado Tribute 20x9.5 + 32 offset Wheels, Nitto NT555R Front Tires, Continental Extreme Contact DW Rear Tires and all are 275/35/20, H&R Springs all around w/rear cut 1/2", 1" hubcentric wheel spacers m14 1.5 stud/lug conversion, R1 Concepts Geomet slotted/drilled rotors with Heavy Duty Semi Metallic pads, Aeroforce Interceptor Gauge.
Currently World's Fastest Ecoboost SHO
11.063 @ 123.17 MPH!  NED 10/10/20