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Author Topic: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play  (Read 532 times)

Offline abs

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Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« on: December 27, 2018, 06:18:13 PM »
I have a 2010 EB Flex with an original PTU and about 150k miles.  I'm trying to determine if the PTU needs replacement due to excessive wear.  It's out of the car right now as I'm doing a transmission/torque converter replacement. 

The PTU does not whine and rotates smoothly.  However, when I change the rotation of the output shaft it makes a clicking noise and there is some rotational play in the output shaft.  I made a video to show what I'm talking about here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNQz4Qw0v9k

Would love some advice from the expert folks here who have had more experience with these units, both new and used, to determine if what I'm observing indicates I should replace the unit.

A bit of history about this unit, I've changed the fluid using the evacuation method every 30k miles since there was 60k miles on the odometer, so it's been fairly well maintained since then. 

https://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9334&p=106997&hilit=ptu#p106997

Thanks in advance,

Andrew
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:20:23 PM by abs »

Offline ZSHO

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 07:06:31 PM »
I'm not quite certain on this but allowing the intermediate shaft to rotate while it is disconnected from the gear or damage to the clockspring may occur. If there is evidence that the intermediate shaft has rotated,the (clockspring) must be removed and recentered!
Im hoping others will chime in.

BTW Due setup an Intro @ your earliest convenience.TIA. Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 07:11:14 PM by ZSHO »


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|Airaid-Dry-flow-CAI|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline SHOdded

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 08:20:27 PM »
A couple of members have replaced their own PTUs and/or worked with issues on the output shaft (to driveshaft), so they likely will have more insight on the "play" issue.  Otherwise, nothing seems out of the ordinary in the video.  No noise at all but for that output shaft as you rotated it.  Assuming the low rpm results correspond to high rpm results, of course. 

Was there a pre-existing leak from the output shaft prior to PTU removal?  In that case you would want to replace the seal at the very least.  You have to index the output flange and the driveshaft so the driveshaft balance is maintained.  Else the driveshaft has to be rebalanced.

As far as movement of the intermediate shaft, not sure if the clockspring is affected when the shaft is moved with the PTU already off the vehicle.  I don't see why it would, but IDK 4 sure.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 08:23:04 PM by SHOdded »
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If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline abs

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 07:10:35 AM »
ZSHO and SHOdded:

Thanks for your replies.  The rear output shaft seal has never leaked on this PTU.  At one point I had a leak at the passenger half-shaft output location (I think this seal has failed for many of us), but that seal was replaced (twice actually) and has not leaked in years.  I'm certain that rotating the PTU while it is off the vehicle will not effect the clock spring since the clockspring is in the steering wheel and not the driveline.  I did also mark the rear drive shaft and PTU output flange so they can be properly reinstalled with the same position.

Thanks,

Andrew

Offline SHOdded

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2018, 08:56:44 AM »
i think you are all good to go then.  your call if you want to replace the output shaft seal.  seems to be doing fine to me, and you can do it later if need be.  yes ideally the flange should be locked and immovable, but it is out of the vehicle so it will not behave the same.  Check once reinstalled - in P and N, the driveshaft should not rotate at all.  Keep up the good work with the fluid changes - PITA, but obviously paying off for you :thumb:
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline glock-coma

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2018, 01:22:54 PM »
I still have my old PTU all though the gears have been removed from it. The flange and pinion gets are still intact.
I think what you’re hearing is the
 hypoid gear inside making contact where the pinion and the ring gear meet.
There will alway be some play between the surfaces. As long as you’re not seeing debris in your oil when you change it I would think the wear would be minimal.
I can get a pic later if it will help.
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Offline 4sfed

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2018, 01:27:24 PM »
I still have my old PTU all though the gears have been removed from it. The flange and pinion gets are still intact.
I think what you’re hearing is the
 hypoid gear inside making contact where the pinion and the ring gear meet.
There will alway be some play between the surfaces. As long as you’re not seeing debris in your oil when you change it I would think the wear would be minimal.
I can get a pic later if it will help.

May I ask why your PTU internals were removed?  Was it bad (or failing), and this was lesser expensive solution?  Or did you just not want AWD anymore?  Some other reason?
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Offline glock-coma

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 01:29:59 PM »
No my PTU went bad, one of the bearing races disintegrated and cause total failure.
I kept the old one to dissect
2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
K&N panel, RX OCC, Sp-534 @.30 Tint 50%F-35%R BOV bypass
1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
1990 SHO triple black 5-speed (saved my life)

Offline ZSHO

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 01:34:15 PM »
I thought a new shaft seal was recommended anytime the PTU is removed from the vehicle!!  Z
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 02:03:09 PM by ZSHO »


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Offline glock-coma

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 01:36:08 PM »
Here’s a preview from a pic I have saved on my phone.
2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
K&N panel, RX OCC, Sp-534 @.30 Tint 50%F-35%R BOV bypass
1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
1990 SHO triple black 5-speed (saved my life)

Offline glock-coma

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2018, 01:38:33 PM »
The driveshaft where it connects to the PTU does have a clock spring per the manual. They don’t want you rotating the drive flange
2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
K&N panel, RX OCC, Sp-534 @.30 Tint 50%F-35%R BOV bypass
1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
1990 SHO triple black 5-speed (saved my life)

Offline 4sfed

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2018, 01:53:31 PM »
Here’s a preview from a pic I have saved on my phone.


Wow!  Yikes!  ...you let all the magic metal flakes out.
Factory Five Mark III, 2004 Mach I donor (gone)
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2002 MB C32 AMG (gone)
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Offline glock-coma

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2018, 01:56:21 PM »
Here’s a picture of the pinion and ring gear.
2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
K&N panel, RX OCC, Sp-534 @.30 Tint 50%F-35%R BOV bypass
1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
1990 SHO triple black 5-speed (saved my life)

Offline SHOdded

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Re: Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 03:31:31 PM »
I thought a new shaft seal was recommended anytime the PTU is removed from the vehicle!!  Z
May be thinking of the compression seal?  Between trans and PTU?
https://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/95195/leaky-ford-ptu

It mentions to replace both seals, the compression and link shaft (ptu to halfshaft) seals, which makes sense since both are "violated" when the PTU is removed.  The output shaft seal however remains intact, as the output flange is not touched.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:33:12 PM by SHOdded »
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

 

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