January 27, 2021, 04:14:27 AM
collapse

Author Topic:  !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO  (Read 3426 times)

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Hi There,

I am new to this forum, but thought it would be the best place to get an answer!

My truck is a 2016 3.5ECO and has the following mods, MBR Off road DP's, Borla S-Type Exhaust, K&N Intake, Turbosmart BOV, 35" Ridge Grapplers with a 5" lift and spacers. It had a tune from 5-Star tunes.

I recently installed MBRP off-road down pipes and then took it to a dyno shop to get get it professionally tuned. However, after spending 2 hours on the dyno, they were not able to get above 10lbs of boost. Which in turn, stopped me from getting the full potential (Approx. 500lbs/ft at Tq. - so they said), they could only get 421lb/ft and 336HP.

They informed me that the wastegates werent closing? or opening? i dont know too much about this. but it was stopping me from getting the full power.

Has anyone run into this issue? and what is the fix?


Offline AJP turbo

  • SCT dealer and custom calibrator 3.5 ecoboost specialist
  • Vendor
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 133
  • -Received: 1168
  • Posts: 3244
  • Log Warlock
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 05:13:50 PM »
I think you need to take a few steps back...You are assuming there is a mechanical problem. I've seen posts like yours before. Everyone assumes a dyno tune is better or more complete than a particular tune that you may have on your car/truck. Sometimes that's true and sometimes not.

I'm not sure who is dyno tuning but it's not as simple to tune as you may expect and a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that a dyno shop can tune anything and unfortunately a lot of shops will tell you they can.

You most likely have  tuning issue. The dyno shop was using their own tune from scratch and not using your 5 star tune. I'm not super familiar with 5 star but I know they have experience and you probably had a decent tune.

If you have datalogs from the dyno tune and you should if they were attempting a tune then I would take a look for you...But if you had a good tune from 5 star you should've dynoed that to see where you were and then you would know that the dyno tune was just bad tuning and not a mechanical problem
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
      
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Offline SHOdded

  • Forum Supporters
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Beltsville, MD
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 13033
  • -Received: 4233
  • Posts: 15901
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 06:02:02 PM »
Posting datalogs for review is a great place to start w getting help in any situation.  Once software issues are eliminated, then we can look at hardware issues.  As AJP has said, most likely the tune from the shop is the culprit.

Also, please provide the following background info:
How many miles on your truck?
Have you had it since new?
Any operational issues/hiccups prior to the dyno session, or only the dyno related issues?
Have you driven the truck since the dyno session?  How does it feel compared to the 5 star tune?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 06:30:00 PM »
Thanks for the quick responses guys!.

So, i am the original owner and am approaching 40000 miles. I have only traveled about 200 miles with the down pipes installed.
I have had no issues in the past at all.

I installed the DP a week ago, and drove it for about 50 miles without it being tightened properly (sounded like  leaky exhaust). upon fixing this issue, i went to the dyno shop. At this point it had all the listed mods including the 5 start tune from before the DP's were installed.
I tried to get another tune from 5-Star for the MBRP off road DP's, but they refused for some reason. Hence the reason i went to the dyno shop.

He ran the truck on the dyno before he messed with it. I did notice a difference after i had it dynoed - he tried to get as much out of it as he could. So it did run better and pull a little harder, but only just noticeable.

We never returned the tune to stock and he used the existing 5-Star tune, not his own from scratch.  He also mentioned that once i fixed the wastegate issue, i would instantly notice a crazy increase in boost and power, and said i should call him immediately to get it re-tuned properly.

when the OEM DP's were removed, it was a mission to take out the CO2 sensors, and they were knocked around a little bit, but nothing crazy (not sure if that would effect it).

Glad of any comments! And ill give $100 tip to the guy that provides the solution that fixes it.


Offline SHOdded

  • Forum Supporters
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Beltsville, MD
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 13033
  • -Received: 4233
  • Posts: 15901
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 06:51:52 PM »
AJP's tips are worth their weight in gold, so you will have to up that ante some.

Yeah very common to see truck tubos boosting into the mid 20's on a regular basis.  Unlike the SHO turbos that like to be in the 16-18 psi rane max.

The question is whether the pcm is cutting power, or it really is a sticking wastegate.  The O2 sensors are rather fragile on the SHO and a mutha to remove with miles on them.  So def worth a check.

Most likely 5Star is steering clear of the EPA and their supposed agreement with SCT.  Seeing as you are in California, the likelihood is high.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 07:30:54 PM »
haha you got it!

Exactly what the dyno company said, they expected 20lbs. He said it was more a sticking wastegate, because he tried everything he could do electronically to sort the issue out. the down pipes arent throwing a 'check engine' light either which is surprising.
If it is a sticking wastegate, what is the fix??? this is the first time i have done this.

That is exactly the reason! i couldn't even directly ship the down pipes here...stupid CARB regs.

Offline AJP turbo

  • SCT dealer and custom calibrator 3.5 ecoboost specialist
  • Vendor
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 133
  • -Received: 1168
  • Posts: 3244
  • Log Warlock
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 09:00:51 PM »
Cody I highly doubt the shop was using 5 stars tunes...can you tell us the name of the file extension your 5 star tune is? CEF? Unlikely that they gave you a raw file...you need to take some datalogs of the dyno tune and or 5 star

What file format is the dyno tune?
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
      
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 10:18:04 AM »
Hi AJP,
i distinctly remember asking him if i should return the truck back to the stock tune, and he said no we will just use the 5 star one you already have on it.

the 5-star file is CEF.

If it is a mechanical problem, what is the fix?

Offline AJP turbo

  • SCT dealer and custom calibrator 3.5 ecoboost specialist
  • Vendor
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 133
  • -Received: 1168
  • Posts: 3244
  • Log Warlock
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
They did not use the 5 star tune

You need to datalog...you should almost never assume a mechanical issue until you datalog

At this point Iím willing to bet that a datalog of whatever tune they had on it would show target boost that is in line with what you were seeing
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 11:13:59 AM by AJP turbo »
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
      
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Offline TooFast4SHO

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 5
  • Posts: 48
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 01:52:30 PM »
I had a wastage/BOV issue when the WG reference vacuum/boost line disconnected on me, it drove like normal usually but when it was under a lot of boost it would just dump all the extra boost out of the BOV's. I had them vented to atmosphere so I could actually hear it happening, I am not sure you could with them setup to recirculate. Thank god, if it was a mechanical BOV it may have just blown the motor. I assume the ECU could see there was an issue and took steps to protect itself, put the line back on with a zip tie and instantly back to normal.
2014 SHO non PP, Livernois 3bar v8 tune, PPE Catted Downpipes, 3rd cat delete with straight pipe stock back, H&R Dropped Springs, Low Temp Thermo. Adaptive Cruise, Collision Avoidance, Lane Keeping, Auto Brights..

12.99 @ 106.4 with 3/4 tank of gas and spare etc. in car.

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 04:06:40 PM »
Ok i will do a datalog shortly.

Also, when i step on the gas, there is a noise coming from the passenger side turbo that sounds like an exhaust leak, however, there are no leaks and the pipes are installed and tensioned correctly. it is not loud but you can definitely notice it.
Is this common? and possibly something to do with this issue?

Offline AJP turbo

  • SCT dealer and custom calibrator 3.5 ecoboost specialist
  • Vendor
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 133
  • -Received: 1168
  • Posts: 3244
  • Log Warlock
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 04:26:39 PM »
Ok i will do a datalog shortly.

Also, when i step on the gas, there is a noise coming from the passenger side turbo that sounds like an exhaust leak, however, there are no leaks and the pipes are installed and tensioned correctly. it is not loud but you can definitely notice it.
Is this common? and possibly something to do with this issue?


What issue? You need to first identify that there is an issue...So far the ISSUE is low boost after a speed shop attempted to tune the truck. You should log your 5 star tune first, then if that looks ok then it's clear the ISSUE is the speed shop tune attempt. If there is still an issue the I would return to stock and trouble shoot.


Running a tune on a vehicle that is not mechanically sound is very bad.


You should log at a minimum: RPM, fuel rear pressure, desired TIP, MAP, LTFT, STFT, load, wastegate duty cycle, IAT2, cylinder head metal temp, Knock sensor, Spark, vehicle speed, measured AFR, Lambse, Actual throttle angle. Off the top of my head


I would suggest a WOT pull in Drive from 1st through 3rd gear and also a WOT pull in manual mode in 3rd gear from 2000-5900 rpm.


You can post the logs here and people will look for you and I'd also be happy to look...Many people here are good at looking at logs. The speed shop should've done that also and been able to at least point you in the right direction or even tell you the problem if they are competent.


I have noticed that in the truck F150 world many people still do mods that are not recommended with modern ECU tuning and controls such as boost control mods and things like that, pedal boosters, Map sensor boosters and what not.
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
      
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Offline ZSHO

  • Forum Supporter
  • Forum Supporters
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • *
  • New York SHO
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1945
  • -Received: 4086
  • Posts: 1982
  • Trap Speed of almost 116 mph.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 04:32:19 PM »
Check the intake charge pipes for any loose clamps or splitting! Sometimes there will be visible signs of oil around the area in question.  Z
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 05:16:01 PM by ZSHO »


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline Codyw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Los Angeles
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 9
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 7
  • Ecobooster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 04:56:32 PM »
AJP - The boost felt the same before the DYNO tune attempt as it did afterwards. So it was low even when i had the 5-Star tune on it. I never had 5-Star retune it after i put the 35" x 12.5 tires on it (which were installed only 2 months ago- about 1 year after i had it tuned for 33" tires), that may have effected it??

I am taking it back to the speed shop for a road test tomorrow to see if they can sort this out. I will get the necessary files off them then.

ZSHO - i will do just that right away.

Offline AJP turbo

  • SCT dealer and custom calibrator 3.5 ecoboost specialist
  • Vendor
  • Elite Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 133
  • -Received: 1168
  • Posts: 3244
  • Log Warlock
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: !Help - Wastegate stopping me from getting full potential! 2016 3.5ECO
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 05:08:54 PM »
AJP - The boost felt the same before the DYNO tune attempt as it did afterwards. So it was low even when i had the 5-Star tune on it. I never had 5-Star retune it after i put the 35" x 12.5 tires on it (which were installed only 2 months ago- about 1 year after i had it tuned for 33" tires), that may have effected it??

I am taking it back to the speed shop for a road test tomorrow to see if they can sort this out. I will get the necessary files off them then.

ZSHO - i will do just that right away.

You should correct for the tires. Trans settings will be off...And you aren't logging the correct miles on your odometer. And the stability control could be unhappy and throwing the car into a type of limp mode or low boost
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
      
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

 


SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal