I just can’t win with this Flex

2010Limited · July 15, 2018, 02:42:57 PM

So I thought I had it all sorted out. New turbos. AC fixed. Driving, loving life. Then it strikes again. I borrowed my dads truck to go kayaking and he calls me this morning that the flex stalled and was blowing smoke. Could t get it started. I get to it and it won't start. Pull the dipstick and it's milk.
FFS I'm sure the water pump went. He had no warning of overheating so I don't think the head gasket went.
I'm at my wits end with this turd. I'm mostly afraid my new turbos took a dump along with the pump. He only drove about 2 miles before it shut off and wouldn't restart.

Fix or crush? Not literally but I'm quite fed up with this truck. Ford really built a crap engine that the water pump failing means your turbos / engine could get roasted real fast.

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SHOdded · July 15, 2018, 03:30:33 PM

Ah that royally sux! Turbos should be fine tho. Yeah a nused engine is the proper fix in this situation. If the engine were naturally aspirated i would say it is repairable, but forced induction ... Can be a crapshoot.

Pretty much at least a couple times a week we get edge owners with failed water pumps on their 3.5s. Paying attention to coolant and oil changes is critical, and Ford way overhyped the maintenancefree aspects. They never torturetested the transverse engine!

griggs95 · July 15, 2018, 10:33:31 PM

OP that really sucks to hear and understand the mentality that is going right now. Not sure you bought new/used but the water pump on these is a real conundrum for me with these engines. How this got through engineering is beyond me?!

I've been wondering when we'd start seeing more of this and it looks the time is now. How many miles on yours before the failure? Curious because some water pump failures are occurring before 100k and some far after; in the 150k range.

SHOdded, how many of these NA water pump failures are destroying engines from what you've seen? Reason I ask is maybe looking at a used NA Flex awd that the pump went, but was repaired.

SHOdded · July 15, 2018, 11:47:21 PM

The failures are not destroying engines at all UNLESS the driver ignores the overheat warning and continues to drive the vehicle. Ford has a "failsafe cooling strategy" thar fires alternate cylinders using the rest as an air pump to help cool the engine. But the real problem is that the water pump is not isolated from the oil pan once the seal(s) or bearings fail. So as long as the vehicle was pulled over and not driven before the repair, no reason to worry.

I'd be sure to get into the details of the repair. Replacing timing chains tensioners and guides along with the water pump is a MUST. The adjustable nature of the timing chains does put stress on the water pump bearings. As does not changing coolant frequently/often. Highly advisable to change coolant yearly to save the WP.

ZSHO · July 16, 2018, 07:22:00 AM

I feel bad for all the mischief you had to endure but hopefully your vehicle was spared one last time! Best of luck. Z

2010Limited · July 16, 2018, 08:07:53 AM

After I cooled down, I got the codes - P1299 and P052D. Is it possible the head gasket went and not the pump?
Isn't there a water pump code?

My plan is to get it on the lift and drain all the oil. Then I don't know. I can handle the pump went but if it took the turbo's I don't know if I want to continue with this thing.

It pisses me off I wasn't driving it when it happened. My dad said there was no chime, light etc for overheating. It just quit. He get it started and after a mile or so quit again.

SHOdded · July 16, 2018, 08:27:58 AM

No specific water pump code, only overtemperature codes or P0016. Head gasket failures are extremely rare, believe it or not. Now could you window the block. Yes. Could the block crack? Yes. etc.

The codes you are seeing are likely due to excessive slack in the timing chains and contamination of the VCT solenoids.

2010Limited · July 16, 2018, 10:20:34 AM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 16, 2018, 08:27:58 AM
No specific water pump code, only overtemperature codes or P0016. Head gasket failures are extremely rare, believe it or not. Now could you window the block. Yes. Could the block crack? Yes. etc.

The codes you are seeing are likely due to excessive slack in the timing chains and contamination of the VCT solenoids.

I'm still undecided what I want to do.
I could do the pump/chain/tensioner and then see what happens. Or part it out. I'm pretty upset because I really liked this truck.

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SHOdded · July 16, 2018, 02:08:29 PM

I think it is a difficult decision for sure. If you DIY, at least the financial part is easier.

griggs95 · July 16, 2018, 02:43:19 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 15, 2018, 11:47:21 PM
The failures are not destroying engines at all UNLESS the driver ignores the overheat warning and continues to drive the vehicle. Ford has a "failsafe cooling strategy" thar fires alternate cylinders using the rest as an air pump to help cool the engine. But the real problem is that the water pump is not isolated from the oil pan once the seal(s) or bearings fail. So as long as the vehicle was pulled over and not driven before the repair, no reason to worry.

I'd be sure to get into the details of the repair. Replacing timing chains tensioners and guides along with the water pump is a MUST. The adjustable nature of the timing chains does put stress on the water pump bearings. As does not changing coolant frequently/often. Highly advisable to change coolant yearly to save the WP.

I'm at 86k now and have this on my mind as should others with higher mileage. Curious, how would changing coolant often help with water pump longevity? Thanks for the insight since I'm not happy with the design of this system with water in oil design flaw.

SHOdded · July 16, 2018, 02:51:48 PM

Just like engine oil, coolant contains additives. The two primary purposes of these additives: a) inhibit rust & corrosion, b) lubricate the bearings in the water pump. Just like additives in oil, these additives get used up over time via chemical breakdown and recombination, etc. Certain coolants contain silicates, which are ok for short runs (30k-60k) but become abrasive the longer the coolant remains in the system. Coolant also becomes more acidic with use/age, so it starts to eat away at the seals. So by renewing the coolant you avoid wear and tear on the water/coolant pump. Now timing chain wobble - that you can't do much about ...

PEAK brand is one of the few brands that is silicatefree, btw. But as long as coolant is renewed on a regular basis, water/coolant pump problems should be minimal. Yes, definitely a bad design to let coolant drain straight into the oil. No, Ford is not the first to implement timing chain driven water pumps. Japanese mfrs have been doing it for some time ...

Do not be tempted by extended change intervals for either coolant or engine oil, bottomline.

2010Limited · July 16, 2018, 03:14:27 PM

The oil is so nasty. And my front turbo has creamy oil leaking. Rear turbo looks ok as of right now.
Any way to tell if it's definitely the water pump and not a head gasket besides a compression test?

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SHOdded · July 16, 2018, 03:30:12 PM

Not that I am aware of. If it were only a coolant leak and no contamination of the oil had occurred, we could have borescoped the piston tops, looking for CLEAN tops, as coolant tends to do that.

2010Limited · July 16, 2018, 03:34:53 PM

Here's the oil

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ZSHO · July 16, 2018, 03:49:14 PM

I think There is a weep hole for the water pump IIRC! That oil looks like Condensation buildup! I found it beneficial to avoid frequent short trips due to condensation buildup inside the crankcase with no time to burn it off especially in High humid climates. Z