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LMS Meth Tune... No Meth?

Started by StinkinLinkin13, May 20, 2018, 06:33:19 PM

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StinkinLinkin13

That would help explain my poor fuel economy. I appreciate the safe approach but at the same time it's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to mod any further (meth, hpfp etc) on this type of canned tune. I don't want to get so crazy as to risk any engine failure. But at the same time I feel there is still quite a bit of potential left in the car with the current V11 tune without the need for those additional expensive mods. Its seems those mods are mostly a requirement because of the type of rich tuning they like to run. Plus they make some $$$ from them as well. Thanks for the feedback. Good info.
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

StealBlueSho

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on May 21, 2018, 11:01:41 AM
That would help explain my poor fuel economy. I appreciate the safe approach but at the same time it's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to mod any further (meth, hpfp etc) on this type of canned tune. I don't want to get so crazy as to risk any engine failure. But at the same time I feel there is still quite a bit of potential left in the car with the current V11 tune without the need for those additional expensive mods. Its seems those mods are mostly a requirement because of the type of rich tuning they like to run. Plus they make some $$$ from them as well. Thanks for the feedback. Good info.

Shouldn't have poor fuel economy as they don't start enrichment until under full load. The tune tries to keep stoich 95% of the time...

I can tell you from personal experience, that the V11 tune pretty much maxes out what a 93 octane tune can push boost/spark wise... you can lean it out a bit and not run so rich but I am unsure how that will effect KR as I am sure part of the reason they are running rich is to help cool the cylinders to stave off knock... but AJPTurbo can provide much more information on that...

I have tunes from Brad from my 2010 SHO that max out the 93 octane tune running at .80 lambse and the load is very similar almost identical to the V11 tune from LMS.  No doubt you individual car can be tweaked a bit more as each car is different.. but the gains are porbably not gonna be that much different...

now if you are looking to run E30 blends you might be able to squeeze a bit more more.. I will differ to Brad on this...

StinkinLinkin13

#17
Yea... I see WOT pretty much every time I drive. 😂 But even when I try to take it easy... Its still at 13.- MAX mpg. Never ever seen anything higher since I've had this latest tune. And I tried. I heard some guys claim that they had improved fuel economy after running the tune but I just have a hard time believing that giving my personal results. When I fill up my dash says something like 240 to empty. I wonder about its accuracy but do end up filling up often enough to believe it.
Livernois Catless downpipes with Totalflow mufflers - AJP E40/Meth tune - Firestorm HPFP - DW 300 LPFP - Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump - 3 Bar Map - Alky Controls Meth Injection - 160° Thermostat - EPP Hot Pipes - AEM Dryflow Filter - BOV VTA - SSM Polyurethane Torque Struts - H&R Sport Springs - 20"x10" Niche Veronas on 275/40-20 DWS06 -

AJP turbo

Remember in the stock tune ford uses 14.069 as the stoiciometric fuel mix so .72 lambda is  10.13 and .78 is 10.97 which are both super rich

So .82 is 11.54

I actually run a bit richer than stock in low and midrange but leaner up top....but tuned runs more boost down low and midrange so maybe that's why the stock tune will run 1.0 until about 4500 which is crazy lean...I actually think ford did a lot of research on piston design to suppress knock
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

SilvererSHO

Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 20, 2018, 10:54:28 PM
Quote from: Twintrbskies on May 20, 2018, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 20, 2018, 09:56:28 PM
Edit*: now Nitrous and bigger turbos are different they still won't tune you past around 450/450 without a motor build as they have pretty solid data showing these motors/drive train in stock form won't hold up past that...

500 is the magic number with our motor/drive train in stock form.. after that it's just a matter of time before something goes to crap. And they are not the only ones who say that...

I assume your referring to WHP/TQ with those numbers?

Yes.


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What does a stock one generally put down at the wheels?  What is generally used for a drivetrain loss % on these cars?  What is 450/450 at the motor?
All Silver(er)SHO.  2012, every option with PP running new Firehawk Indy 500's.

StealBlueSho

Quote from: SilvererSHO on May 21, 2018, 06:15:00 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 20, 2018, 10:54:28 PM
Quote from: Twintrbskies on May 20, 2018, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 20, 2018, 09:56:28 PM
Edit*: now Nitrous and bigger turbos are different they still won't tune you past around 450/450 without a motor build as they have pretty solid data showing these motors/drive train in stock form won't hold up past that...

500 is the magic number with our motor/drive train in stock form.. after that it's just a matter of time before something goes to crap. And they are not the only ones who say that...

I assume your referring to WHP/TQ with those numbers?

Yes.


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What does a stock one generally put down at the wheels?  What is generally used for a drivetrain loss % on these cars?  What is 450/450 at the motor?


General agreement is 25% loss from the fly to the wheels...

So 450 is 600 at the engine... 600 * .75 = 450.

I think stock they are around 275ish to the wheels?


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bpd1151

#21
Quote from: SilvererSHO on May 21, 2018, 06:15:00 PMWhat does a stock one generally put down at the wheels?  What is generally used for a drivetrain loss % on these cars?

Drivetrain loss has ALWAYS been (consistently) 23% to 24%.

Stock dynos, from all model years from 2010 to current, have ranged in between 277 to 285awhp.

Ford quotes the (stock) power at the motor to be 365chp/bhp.

Leadfoot

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on May 21, 2018, 11:01:41 AM
That would help explain my poor fuel economy. I appreciate the safe approach but at the same time it's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to mod any further (meth, hpfp etc) on this type of canned tune. I don't want to get so crazy as to risk any engine failure. But at the same time I feel there is still quite a bit of potential left in the car with the current V11 tune without the need for those additional expensive mods. Its seems those mods are mostly a requirement because of the type of rich tuning they like to run. Plus they make some $$$ from them as well. Thanks for the feedback. Good info.

Something must be off, i'm getting 22 MPG hwy at about 85 mph with the V11 tune. I was running out of fuel with the winter blends but the summer gas is better, no more stumbling at 6K+. The wife gets 26 but I cant drive that slow or keep my foot out of it :-)
2018 Taurus SHO White, non pp (ACC) 20/35% tint, ceramic coating, hot pipes, PPE catted down pipes, GH Auto tune, 170 degree t-Stat. Anthony DiCunzolo gen 2 rear mount.

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: bpd1151 on May 21, 2018, 09:40:01 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on May 21, 2018, 06:15:00 PMWhat does a stock one generally put down at the wheels?  What is generally used for a drivetrain loss % on these cars?

Drivetrain loss has ALWAYS been (consistently) 23% to 24%.

Stock dynos, from all model years from 2010 to current, have ranged in between 277 to 285awhp.

Ford quotes the (stock) power at the motor to be 365chp/bhp.
This is what confuses me about drivetrain loss...

If I get on a dyno and take a baseline...

Drive off and do lets say 3 bar and a tune...

Drive back on and re-dyno, what changes that we lose more power spinning the drums?

I could understand a little more loss due to heat, but does it really stay at a fixed % or does that # actually go down as you add power?

:hmmm:


StealBlueSho

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 23, 2018, 12:09:15 AM
Quote from: bpd1151 on May 21, 2018, 09:40:01 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on May 21, 2018, 06:15:00 PMWhat does a stock one generally put down at the wheels?  What is generally used for a drivetrain loss % on these cars?

Drivetrain loss has ALWAYS been (consistently) 23% to 24%.

Stock dynos, from all model years from 2010 to current, have ranged in between 277 to 285awhp.

Ford quotes the (stock) power at the motor to be 365chp/bhp.
This is what confuses me about drivetrain loss...

If I get on a dyno and take a baseline...

Drive off and do lets say 3 bar and a tune...

Drive back on and re-dyno, what changes that we lose more power spinning the drums?

I could understand a little more loss due to heat, but does it really stay at a fixed % or does that # actually go down as you add power?

:hmmm:


Only way to know that is to do a baseline wheel AND engine dyno... tune... repeat...


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