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please help me understand what the crap is going on? (wastegates) : Resolved!!!

Started by TopherSho, January 28, 2018, 12:11:03 PM

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TopherSho

Ok I am back with round #2 @ 14 pounds PSI.

Observation - on this tune :
1st gear =0 issues
2nd gear =no issues .. i think.  might be placebo.
3rd gear = we have issues but to a WAY lesser degree at high RPM.  it flutters and hiccups, and kind of stalls the cars speed but it at least will finish 3rd gear.

i have not looked at these,  it may not be very noticable.  only look at 3rd past 5000rpm.

i will now load the 15psi non-meth tune.  that one all but stalls the car the last time i had it in.   but those logs wont come until tomorrow.

i will add spark source to a copy of brads CFG file.  i will dump a couple pids like speed, cylinder head temp, and add spark-source.

so this seems to be pressure related.  but all the bits are new.  turbos, boost bypass solenoid, all the hoses to the boost bypass solenoid, (2) 3bar maps. 

hopefully with the 3rd set of logs where s*** gets real bad we can look for differences and start putting things together.

it does seem the new turbos have added some punch..

thank you for looking .
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

StealBlueSho

Dude... those logs look really good... I can't see anything in them that shows a hiccup. NOW... I will say this... being as we both have the same strategy... sometimes with the SCT platform tunes I experience what feels like a miss.. its like a quick hiccup in the higher RPMs every once in a blue moon... happens with BCB, Unleashed, and Brad. I have spoken to Brad about it before but to date I have not been able to find a single shred of evidence in the logs to show it.

It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.

Wish I could say I saw something to help you out. I am sure Brad is probably just as frustrated...

IMHO I wouldn't load any tune that is more aggressive if the stutter and hiccups are as bad as you say. I would attempt to figure out what is going on with the mildest tune that produces the issue. 

AJP turbo

Looking good so far and much better but on the log that said "test other" your knock sensor reading went nuts and something is wrong with the reading...It went to like -20 and I know you weren't adding 20 degrees of spark and your spark was normal looking in the high teens.....I thought you had another log like that today....but the resolution looks so much better now

You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?

This is just so weird now....But you are not overboosting as of the last logs.
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: ZSHO on January 28, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
I appreciate the responses from ^^^ as this Topic alone has helped me setup my newly acquired X4 in organizing a list of standard Pid's and hopefully will do some logging in the coming weeks to see what the crap is going on! LOL. Thanks!  Z  :
How many PIDS does your strategy have?

I went from over 1000 to 200 in the MKS, total buzzkill.

I built multiple config files for the 15, there was all kinds of cool stuff to look at.

TopherSho

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
Looking good so far and much better but on the log that said "test other" your knock sensor reading went nuts and something is wrong with the reading...It went to like -20 and I know you weren't adding 20 degrees of spark and your spark was normal looking in the high teens.....I thought you had another log like that today....but the resolution looks so much better now
There is probably more than one 'knock' reading but i will re-scan the pids and look back in there and see if i added the wrong one.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 28, 2018, 08:39:37 PM
You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?
It is toggled off. no juice in the circuit,  the pump is direct to battery.  the relay is ignition hot wire powered, and its wired off the ignition to a single pole toggle so i can de-power the circuit at my command.  it has been of since late september/early october?

Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 08:30:45 PM
Dude... those logs look really good... I can't see anything in them that shows a hiccup. NOW... I will say this... being as we both have the same strategy... sometimes with the SCT platform tunes I experience what feels like a miss.. its like a quick hiccup in the higher RPMs every once in a blue moon... happens with BCB, Unleashed, and Brad. I have spoken to Brad about it before but to date I have not been able to find a single shred of evidence in the logs to show it.

It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.

That is EXACTLY the issue as it stands after the parts swapping. perfect description except mine hits over and over like hammer on the 14.5/15 pound tunes past 4500 rpmish in fact it feels like the car might loose enough steam to not make it to 4th gear.    As much as i do not want to abuse the drive train and motor.  I am still going forward with a follow-up 15 pound test where it is at its worst.  (1) you said you could not see it,  but i felt it in the 14 pound tune,  it slowed the car down...but the issue was reduced like 75%...  it is subtle so it may not be showing well enough in the 14-pound logs.  (2) now that i'm not over boosting, maybe well see the issue better?  or well see behavior similar to over boosting.. either way with 2800$ in parts we changed the elements of the problem so we have to retest to establish new baseline/issue parameters.

i need to swap out a few things in brads config,  then switch to the 15 pound tune.  might have logs tomorrow ...  lets see where were at after the new parts infusion



2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

StealBlueSho

There was another user on this forum that had issues with stuttering as well but only with SCT tunes.

My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it's a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it's not isolated to Brads tune but  it only happens with SCT tunes.

Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...


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TopherSho

Quote from: stealbluesho on January 28, 2018, 10:32:46 PM
There was another user on this forum that had issues with stuttering as well but only with SCT tunes.

My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it's a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it's not isolated to Brads tune but  it only happens with SCT tunes.

Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You know when i talked to some guy at SCT,  when i told him my firmware he sucked air through his teeth,  and every pid/dmr i ever asked for to be added to the tuner has gone to the wastebasket.   it seems this firmware is an issue.

the weird thing is it happend a little over time.  I felt it before,  but not like it is now.  and the day after running my 12.6 runs for 20 runs it became 100% worse.  I had thought it was the pump.. but I now know better. 

well if it keeps doing what it did prior to the SCT update and reset the 15 pound tune logs will show a horror show.  i HOPE the spark does it 28-0-28 bit.  with spark sourse maybe ... maybe well get something.

2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

SHOdded

Offtopic possibly, but have you checked trans fluid level?  Maybe overfilling it by a pint might help.  I don't think this is a PTU issue, but no leaks there, right?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

TopherSho

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 28, 2018, 06:27:28 PM
Not spark, spark source, its like torque source but for spark.

Dang, i do not see a spark source...
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

TopherSho

i'm superstitious .. so ... not saying s*** until tomorrow after noon PST when i can do a run on my farm road in the daylight ... but stay tuned.
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

TopherSho

It might be #%%ing fixed. 

i have been beating on it at lunch,  not logging possible. and it seems ok now.   walked away from some kids in a shiny 5.0 on a onramp stop light who looked very confused when they caught up at the freeway interchange 30 seconds later.   Left a very angry older Porche 930 driver behind on the same on ramp on the way back.  then lost only by a little bit to a angry sounding Caddi-Vsport something or other. (looked like an aplha platfrom)

there is still some kind of fluttering,  but it might be placebo or turbulence since i am running without the bottom splash guard.

when i have time to do real testing i will know more.

so it seems two fold. (1) overboosting is now fixed,  (2) updating the tuner stopped the bad fluttering and stalling. 

or .. fixing the tuner fixed the over boosting?   I dunno.. i had a cracked bad turbine and control arm.. so in the end i'm just going to validate my findings and just go with it.   If i fixed this with the tuner earlier i'd likely blown the engine with the bad turbo on race day at PIR so .. its a wash.

i need a drink.
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

SHOdded

You may be at a Hallelujah crossroads lol.  Make sure it is not singleparenting day when you imbibe tho!
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

TopherSho

Quote from: SHOdded on January 29, 2018, 05:34:33 PM
You may be at a Hallelujah crossroads lol.  Make sure it is not singleparenting day when you imbibe tho!
I am still befuddled.  And angry now actually. 

how the freak did a tune ''go bad'' ? 

it is the same tune,  on the same handheld applied to the same car that did not change in any way.

NOTHING changed t any of those three things.

corruption might explain 1 tune on the SCt handheld but all f**king 5 tunes!!??  2 meth tunes and 3 non meth tunes????

if my turbo turbine had not been cracked and the control arm practically falling off .. that 2800$ would have damn made me set some fire.. edit : (redacted some angry posting)

if this is a ''thing'' i may have some stern words for SCT...


2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

SHOdded

I dont think it is a question of corruption.  I think a change in parameters and tune handling is what goes on with device updates.  They must be correcting and improving software performance with the updates, and the tune has to be in sync with the current firmware/software.  This is very common on software platforms.  I have seen this in my custom programming when the platform comes out with updates, suddenly my program starts behaving erratically, UNTIL I read the documentation and update my custom program to comply with the platform's current environment.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

StealBlueSho

$2800 in the long run isn't enough money to get that upset about.

As far as the tunes going corrupt, I doubt it. If your telling me that all the tunes ran great one day and bad the next without any changes then perhaps its environmental? These ECUs are extremely complex in how they handle different environmental values. Hell there is one in there to adjust the cars boost based on elevation.... let alone temps, loads, etc...

Maybe the tune ran well during the summer months because the IATs were warmer? And in the winter months with the colder IATs your pushing more spark sooner(or later) in the RPM band?

Grasping here lol... but all those variables do make a difference.


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