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Livernois T500 build

Started by Livernois Motorsports, January 26, 2018, 11:09:35 AM

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SHOdded

I think you would need somewhat well north of 400AWHP to break into the 11's, especially on a daily driver setup, but would be happy to be proven wrong.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

StealBlueSho

Quote from: SHOdded on January 26, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
I think you would need somewhat well north of 400AWHP to break into the 11's, especially on a daily driver setup, but would be happy to be proven wrong.

agreed.... lots of tuned sho's with those numbers running mid to semi low 12's..

bpd1151

Quote from: SHOdded on January 26, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
I think you would need somewhat well north of 400AWHP to break into the 11's, especially on a daily driver setup, but would be happy to be proven wrong.
Thus my point exactly.

Those who've crossed that 11 barrier, were all/each North of 430 at the wheels.

The #'s posted, although impressive, I would say to crack 11's would be overly optimistic, that's all. No biggie.

I'd like to see it run too. Either way, it's still a SHO and pretty damn cool in my playbook.

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Macgyver

What are the reasons that makes High 11's so hard. Besides 4400 pounds and the drive train.

StealBlueSho

#19
Quote from: Macgyver on January 26, 2018, 11:19:57 PM
What are the reasons that makes High 11's so hard. Besides 4400 pounds and the drive train.

LMS doesn't push stock motors beyond a safe point which makes it very hard to hit 11's. Additionally the stock turbos run out of air at the higher RPMs so the HP is hard to develope.

Mikes Bull can run 11's consistently and safely all day (before all the added weight of the audio gear which I personally suspect is gonna hurt his ETs quite a bit however not verified) which is what makes his unique. But he has all the goodies plus a built motor.

Those that have hit 11's with the stock block with stock turbos are pushing everything to the ragged edge. And they are generally not hitting 11's consistently, it takes really good track conditions to do. Also, most tuners won't push a car that hard as it's not a matter of if it fail but a matter of when.

In short, to run consistently in the 11's(note the word consistent as that matters more in drag racing than one off PB) you need bigger turbos and more fuel whether that's a new HPFP or or Meth. To do it safely over multiple track seasons I would go as far as to say you need built motor.

My humble opinion... I don't know any SHO's running 11's consistently over the course of a couple seasons besides Mike. Someone correct me if I am wrong please.


bamsho

After racing a lot over the past 3 years, and talking with way more experienced racers, I have learned this.  Everything is gain in the 60' and 1/8 mile.  If you look at your slip, you will notice time and speed isn't that big as they are in the first 1/8 mile.  Running very low 12's with what we have is awesome.  Yes track location and weather play a big part too.  Also ours weight a lot, so just plain physics comes into play too.  Not many of us are ready to totally strip on down to be a track car.  I know the day is coming, but for now, NADA.

Ok now my personal review on Livernois Standard Meth Injection vs Livernos Direct Port.  First my car had under 1/2 tank of Sunoco 260GT fuel.. 100 Octane.  Both cars are Tuned by Livernois,  one on there dyno and mine just with updated tune files( no dyno tune ), same lowering springs.  So pretty evenly matched carsas you can get. 

So my impressions is that I felt my car pulled harder from the 330' mark to the end of the 1/4.  I don't know why, the direct port should of been closer to my times, even with me on race fuel.  It bothered my some for a couple weeks, I kept wondering why the other car wasn't faster.  Our 60's where right on each other.  I had some tire spin, the other non.  Now the other car after time may go faster, I noticed mine did last year, I gained .250 over the year, so who know. 

SO you guys with with the standard meth setup, I would stay with it, dont think we would gain anything, I think we would go slower.  Just my opinion.


2013 white Gen 5.  Gearhead Intercooler, Turbosmart wastegate actuators, Alky Controls meth kit, Livernois catted downpipes,  Livernois Corsa cat back black etched tips.  2016 True Street Champion.

StealBlueSho

#21
Quote from: bamsho on January 27, 2018, 09:10:21 AM
After racing a lot over the past 3 years, and talking with way more experienced racers, I have learned this.  Everything is gain in the 60' and 1/8 mile.  If you look at your slip, you will notice time and speed isn't that big as they are in the first 1/8 mile.  Running very low 12's with what we have is awesome.  Yes track location and weather play a big part too.  Also ours weight a lot, so just plain physics comes into play too.  Not many of us are ready to totally strip on down to be a track car.  I know the day is coming, but for now, NADA.

Ok now my personal review on Livernois Standard Meth Injection vs Livernos Direct Port.  First my car had under 1/2 tank of Sunoco 260GT fuel.. 100 Octane.  Both cars are Tuned by Livernois,  one on there dyno and mine just with updated tune files( no dyno tune ), same lowering springs.  So pretty evenly matched carsas you can get. 

So my impressions is that I felt my car pulled harder from the 330' mark to the end of the 1/4.  I don't know why, the direct port should of been closer to my times, even with me on race fuel.  It bothered my some for a couple weeks, I kept wondering why the other car wasn't faster.  Our 60's where right on each other.  I had some tire spin, the other non.  Now the other car after time may go faster, I noticed mine did last year, I gained .250 over the year, so who know. 

SO you guys with with the standard meth setup, I would stay with it, dont think we would gain anything, I think we would go slower.  Just my opinion.

Thanks for the review! From what I understand is that the direct port meth injection delivers the meth more evenly to each cylinder where as the "old" meth injected way of plugging a nozzle before the TB tends to have more meth going to bank 1 than bank 2. You can see that in the datalogs posted.. bank 1 is almost always running richer by 1%-2% than bank 2.

That being said, the idea from what I believe LMS has said is that with a more even distribution of meth, they can develop a more aggressive tune as the delivery is more consistent for meth so its more predictable. Now, that being said, we can safely max out our motors with the single nozzle setup and have been for years. While the DPM setup looks sweeeeeet and has a more consistent delivery, I am not sold that it adds more value from a performance standpoint being that the difference between banks is only 1%-2% iirc..

And on a stock motor LMS wont go much beyond 450/450 awhp/awtq for safety reasons which is obtainable safely with a single nozzle setup.  There is a reason LMS has a track record of not blowing up motors.

   

bpd1151

#22
Nice review there Bam_SHO. :thumb:

SBS I concur as well, and from what memory serves me, that difference was nominal between the two setups (pre-TB meth, versus the DPM).

Also, it should be noted, that this platform has consistently proven that the actual drivetrain loss is 23-24%.

That owner should just run it once (weather permitting) the tracks open for the season. That's always the best indicator of all.

***edited my own post, as the 1st/opening post was corrected to display the 395awhp***

May the tail winds be at all of our backs!
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ZSHO

#23
Great analysis and discussion by above and appreciate Brian(Bamsho) providing his first hand comparison between the two setups!

But unfortunately have been plagued with Traction issues for quite sometime now with Codes C1B00 & C0062! and below are the most recent posts!
I'm sure there is more to my car but unfortunately lost faith with my Ford dealer and currently with bad terms to say the least!il
I will have to troubleshoot my underlying issues myself and until better results are proven will have to leave it @ that! Cheers my fellow colleagues!  Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8462.0.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7881.45.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7045.0.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6676.0.html


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

SHOdded

Ugh these persistent issues suck!  In the absence of other symptoms, I would be looking at the wheel speed sensors and tone rings for rust/corrosion/cracks.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Macgyver

Quote from: SHOdded on January 28, 2018, 05:15:03 AMtone rings for rust/corrosion/cracks

What are those?

I would be happy right now for the "No Key Detected" Issue.

ZSHO

#26
Found this from the Shop Manual! Z

The wheel speed sensor magnetic strips are made up of many magnets arranged in a circle around one side of the wheel bearing in alternating poles, so as the bearing rotates the wheel speed sensor is exposed to alternating north-south magnetic fields. The magnetic strip is located on the side of the wheel bearing facing the vehicle and is part of the wheel bearing and, as such, is serviced with the bearing. Z



2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

StealBlueSho

The wheel bearing is part of the hub assembly... I installed a timken on my front driver side when I put my Megan's in. Not a hard install at all! Maybe a fix for your issue?!?


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ZSHO

#28
I had three sets of the Motorcraft wheel Hubs (bearings) replaced under warranty including the thrust washers to no avail! Z

The Timken look like the real deal with the exception of the Moogs which have a better warranty!  Z

Timken Hubs $131.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4975638&cc=1503823&jsn=465

Moog  $164.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7090404&cc=1503823&jsn=467

Centric $184.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8558272&cc=1503823&jsn=468

Motorcraft  $155.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2962518&cc=1503823&jsn=466&jsn=466
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,brake+&+wheel+hub,wheel+bearing+&+hub+assembly,1636

TSB on Thrust washers
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdiQlZKd29scTd0eUU/view

Timken Specs


ABS/Non-ABS (Y/N)   N
ABS Type   Encoder
Bearing Type   BALL
Bolt Circle Diameter B (in)   4.494
Bolt Circle Diameter H (in)   #
Bolt Quantity   4.000
Bolt Size (in)   M12 x 1.5
Brake Pilot Dia (in)   2.678
Driven_Non Driven   Driven
Flange (#)   2.000
Flange Diameter (in)   5.739
Flange Offset (in)   1.690
Flange Shape   Trapezoid
Generation Type   X
Hub Pilot Dia G (in)   3.823
Lug Bolts_Bolt Holes (#)   Y
Roll Form (Y)   Y
Spline Quantity   38.000
Wheel Pilot Dia (mm)   63.250
Wheel Stud Qty   5.000
Wheel Stud Size (in)   43832.000

TIMKEN Warranty Information
12 months


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

StealBlueSho

You cannot go wrong with Timken or Moog... both make quality parts. Timken has been in the wheel bearing business a long time.


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