Meth weird power behavior (renamed from meth failure)

StealBlueSho · September 22, 2017, 07:23:02 AM

Sounds like when with Advance Trak kicks in... it bogs for a second before taking off...

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TopherSho · September 22, 2017, 09:29:38 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 07:23:02 AM
Sounds like when with Advance Trak kicks in... it bogs for a second before taking off...

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I have a number of logs in with brad, i do see TQ source 18 off and on, do you know what that is about ? I am unfamiliar with '18' ..

but i do drive with traction off.. but i cannot kill ADVTRAC since i am not PP

StealBlueSho · September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM

Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.

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TopherSho · September 22, 2017, 09:38:48 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM
Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.

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Heh timing is perfect he *JUST* advised he is building a new tune and thinks the weirdness is TQ-source related.

dubcitySHO · September 23, 2017, 11:08:36 AM

He utilized TQ18 to resolve my TQ15 issues with throttle closure and dumping the boost. Your car never suffered for TQ15 did it topher?

TopherSho · September 23, 2017, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM
Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.

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Originally I never had a torque Source 15.. the first couple meth Tunes I think he had already programmed torque Source 18 so I was kind of surprised on revision 3 we started hitting that torque limiter and it was cutting power dramatically..

We're on rev5 now I need to drive it for a few days and let the transmission settle with its TCU learning and see if I will hit that torque limiter again with the new adjustments that AJP just made

Fingers crossed .. who knew I'd have so much torque that the transmission would error out and freak out ??

This engine platform is seriously good..

StealBlueSho · September 23, 2017, 11:40:24 AM

Hmmmm good luck!

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TopherSho · September 23, 2017, 05:41:08 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 23, 2017, 11:40:24 AM
Hmmmm good luck!

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So far so good.. still evaluation

TopherSho · September 25, 2017, 11:17:12 AM

Update: As SBS wisely noted. This appears a mix of two issues now ..

(1) I switched to pure meth. this apparently with the update tune took the power levels beyond what the non-PP likes. So i am seeing tons of TQ limiters now. stomp on it, and it down shifts, but it freaks out cuts assloads of power, dumps meth, bogs then overpowers. super spazzy.

(2) advancetrac is sticking it to me hard. if the wheels are turned at all, I cannot apply power. In fact it seems when coming out from decent turn it has less power than the non-meth tunes i was running until the wheels straighten out .. then it hits like tyson on a roid rage.

I am unsure what to do now. Brad can/might tune around some of it. But bottom line is i cannot fully utilize the meth and the power it is generating unless i am in a straight line.

I may have to cap the power to get back the control and ability to power out of turns ..

StealBlueSho · September 25, 2017, 12:01:49 PM

Advance Trac is part of it, I rarely and I mean never go full throttle in a turn. I will go sideways into a ditch if I do that. Guaranteed. Even with the livernois tune it's something I don't do. Another reason is I don't want to apply that amount of pressure to the front axles while they are turned, I don't trust something won't snap...

It's not the 100% Meth that is giving you extra power, it's the tune. Meth in and of itself doesn't not generate extra power but allows you to mitigate knock event. Allowing you to tune for more power.

A straight line is the only time I go full throttle.

Work with Brad, I don't think it tuning around issues, you are just asking the car to do something that it isn't tuned for...

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TopherSho · September 25, 2017, 12:18:54 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 25, 2017, 12:01:49 PM
Advance Trac is part of it, I rarely and I mean never go full throttle in a turn. I will go sideways into a ditch if I do that. Guaranteed. Even with the livernois tune it's something I don't do. Another reason is I don't want to apply that amount of pressure to the front axles while they are turned, I don't trust something won't snap...

It's not the 100% Meth that is giving you extra power, it's the tune. Meth in and of itself doesn't not generate extra power but allows you to mitigate knock event. Allowing you to tune for more power.

A straight line is the only time I go full throttle.

Work with Brad, I don't think it tuning around issues, you are just asking the car to do something that it isn't tuned for...

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I am hopeful. We'll work it until we hit the platform limits and make a audible then. It has less power in turn-outs than it did with the meth, i really hope we can get that back. probably the MOST times I use the power is when i am merging out into traffic and give the throttle a hard kick .. not 100% but definitely deep in the meth.

lamrith · September 25, 2017, 01:29:31 PM

Finally back in town and playing catchup...

Toph! Sounds like you are definitely up in power from last time we spoke, that is great to hear after all the trials you went thru this summer.

As for your merging into traffic and giving throttle a kick. I know when I am going to engage in "playtime" I just go to Sport mode, then paddle shift down 1-2 gears which sets the car in rpm and power range and also saves the drivetrain from taking that hit on downshift. I wonder if that might help keep you from hitting some of those torque limiters? Just spit-balling ideas.. I am sure Brad will get you dialed as best as is possible and it's better to have a tune that works "right". But with big power hitting like it does sometimes might have to put some human intervention in place to help it behave the way you want.

I know I find it a blast to use the paddles when it is time to play in turns or situations where there is much speed changes, car just jumps at flick of throttle that way, no shift lag like you see when braking into a corner and then getting back on throttle.

Keep us updated! Any more track days at PIR for you this year?

polskifacet · September 25, 2017, 02:30:47 PM

+1 on straight line or trans goes nuts. I noticed this when logging 0-100 pulls. Just pull out the abs fuse and call it a day lol, In reality I wish there was a way to turn off this stability granny bull in a non-pp. Maybe AJP needs a pot of donations towards the cause.

TopherSho · September 25, 2017, 03:14:17 PM

Quote from: lamrith on September 25, 2017, 01:29:31 PM
Finally back in town and playing catchup...

Toph! Sounds like you are definitely up in power from last time we spoke, that is great to hear after all the trials you went thru this summer.

As for your merging into traffic and giving throttle a kick. I know when I am going to engage in "playtime" I just go to Sport mode, then paddle shift down 1-2 gears which sets the car in rpm and power range and also saves the drivetrain from taking that hit on downshift. I wonder if that might help keep you from hitting some of those torque limiters? Just spit-balling ideas.. I am sure Brad will get you dialed as best as is possible and it's better to have a tune that works "right". But with big power hitting like it does sometimes might have to put some human intervention in place to help it behave the way you want.

I know I find it a blast to use the paddles when it is time to play in turns or situations where there is much speed changes, car just jumps at flick of throttle that way, no shift lag like you see when braking into a corner and then getting back on throttle.

Keep us updated! Any more track days at PIR for you this year?

Yup, on the rev-3 meth tune i did a 12.619 .. with a 1.86 or so 60ft (drop of .6 seconds). i just could not get the 60ft any lower. my start-of-run temps and spark were really high so the 1st half of my hole shot is bog city. BUT when that meth and timing hit it was a hell of a lot of fun to drive. lots of unhappy customers watching the child seat leave them behind.

but the rev 3 meth tune kicked it into performance territories the programming / advancement doesn't like. were working on it now but the weather is turning, my road is being farmed so i cant get datalogs to Brad. i am super-frustrated right now as i cant get the data to Brad, and I hate the weird shifting and fueling it is doing.

I will try a few more times for logs later this week.. hopefully we can tune around it but Brad's comments make me think it will be a tough task with the 2010-2012 platform NON-PP behaviors.

crossing fingers ..

StealBlueSho · September 25, 2017, 03:23:04 PM

I have a 2010 Non-PP and I don't have those issues... I ran a 12.35 when it was hot as hell... could be an issue in your strategy he needs to work over? I will say upgrading to the coilovers made a world of difference coming off the line without advance track kicking in.

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