Meth injection w/ wastegate mod?

[Colorado-SHOBro]

SBS- i totally understand your statement about adding meth negating the need for the wastegate mod. I suppose you could say the wastegates PRIMARY purpose is to relieve stress on the fuel system. personally though, that's not why i decided to use it.
For me, i could feel everytime the ECU would close the throttle and it felt like the car would fall on it's face. I really wanted to keep the throttle open without putting the car in a really high load situation and it served that purpose for me. Another reason i like it is that i still get a ~2.5psi spike on the 2-3 shift which is pretty much perfect. It's not enough to kill FRP or drive timing down a ton . . . and im riding the extra boost out for a while without sacrificing in other areas. Really just a good balance.

[lamrith]

Maybe move the WG mod farther upstream?

This was my first thought as well, but keep thinking, would the pressure differential from the WG opening change the intake air velocity and have funky effects on the atomization/flow of the meth?

I honestly believe the atomization issues (or lack of for many) is due to the location of the nozzle.  It needs to be before the TB, the TB is what creates the turbulence that assists with getting the Meth dispersed well.  I think the other thread with the throttle plate sort of proves that out.  I would love to have meth be a simple throttle plate install, but it jsut does not offer the atomization needed.

The WG mod is to relieve Excess pressure, there might be a slight change in velocity, but in actuality the psi/airflow thru the nozzle area and TB should remain stable.  That is what the WG mod is designed to do, it evens out the spikes and creates a more uniform and controlled airflow.  Brad then keeps the TB open as part of it so you are really feeding the engine a uniform diet.

In theory.....

[J-Will]

So just use direct port injection

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[StealBlueSho]

SBS- i totally understand your statement about adding meth negating the need for the wastegate mod. I suppose you could say the wastegates PRIMARY purpose is to relieve stress on the fuel system. personally though, that's not why i decided to use it.
For me, i could feel everytime the ECU would close the throttle and it felt like the car would fall on it's face. I really wanted to keep the throttle open without putting the car in a really high load situation and it served that purpose for me. Another reason i like it is that i still get a ~2.5psi spike on the 2-3 shift which is pretty much perfect. It's not enough to kill FRP or drive timing down a ton . . . and im riding the extra boost out for a while without sacrificing in other areas. Really just a good balance.

Sooooo... here is a log.. the throttle closed in first for a brief moment but check the second gear and third gear boost spikes... over 240kpa in first.. no throttle closure... perfect rail pressure...

The only reason the throttle closed in first is Brad and I were experimenting trying to find a away to curb the boost spike in first so I would quit breaking the tires loose after launching...

Point is.. with meth.. you can everything you are looking for without needing the added complexity of the wastegate mod. Which is why I didn't go back to it.

[AJP turbo]

^    Yeah sbs i agree on that....originally when i did the wg mod i wanted to run north of 15 psi AND keep the throttle open but the fuel system didnt like it....but with meth the 2 main problems really dont exist so the boost spike really isnt detrimental when you have juice

The 2 problems being the fuel pressure hit from the sudden load spike and the rapid increase in load from the spike that can cause KR

The increase in load isnt really a problem itself...lower spark is commanded and that doesnt mean less power because cylinder pressure is still there......but its the rate of the load increase 

[Colorado-SHOBro]

It may very well be possible that the wastegate mod isn't needed when running meth. But the point of this thread was to discuss the feasibility of running both in conjunction. Until someone does real world tests, we'll never know for sure.
Looking through Polski's meth thread . . it seems there's a tiny bit of room after the noisemaker/wastegate location to place a nozzle.
http://polskifacet.dynu.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/Meth/meth2-1.jpg
http://polskifacet.dynu.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/Meth/meth2-3.jpg

Would meth still escape in the pictured location being just slightly after the wastegate?

[Colorado-SHOBro]

here's a pic of the location on my specific  setup just to provide a visual of the space between nozzle location and wastegate



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[StealBlueSho]

My nozzle is almost exactly there but under it... it's in front of the noisemaker but before the sleeve.


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[J-Will]

It may very well be possible that the wastegate mod isn't needed when running meth. But the point of this thread was to discuss the feasibility of running both in conjunction. Until someone does real world tests, we'll never know for sure.
Looking through Polski's meth thread . . it seems there's a tiny bit of room after the noisemaker/wastegate location to place a nozzle.
http://polskifacet.dynu.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/Meth/meth2-1.jpg
http://polskifacet.dynu.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/Meth/meth2-3.jpg

Would meth still escape in the pictured location being just slightly after the wastegate?

It is more than feasible, use a direct port setup

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[ddlopes]

Here's the wastegate mod on my hot pipes. I'll be placing the nozzles after the waste gate mod. Hopefully I don't get meth blowing out the wastegate.

[SHO9987]

here's a pic of the location on my specific  setup just to provide a visual of the space between nozzle location and wastegate



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Just thought I would share that I am currently running water/meth with the wastegate mod.  I added the w/m to help with the intake temps.  Brad reported that I was getting intake temps in the 160s when we were tuning with the E20 (80-90degree days).  I still run E20 for now and have not had Brad optimize my tune yet.  In my case I am running windshield washer fluid w/ only 30% meth and the number 5 nozzle from snow (375ml/min I believe).  My intake temps are now 107 - 117 during my pulls.  I have not noticed any issues with over spray or misting coming from the wastegate mod.  Even though wastegate is bleeding off that extra boost, the majority of the air is still going into the intake tract.  I have my nozzle mounted in the same spot you were planning on putting yours, just on the underside of the intake pipe.

[Colorado-SHOBro]

here's a pic of the location on my specific  setup just to provide a visual of the space between nozzle location and wastegate



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just thought I would share that I am currently running water/meth with the wastegate mod.  I added the w/m to help with the intake temps.  Brad reported that I was getting intake temps in the 160s when we were tuning with the E20 (80-90degree days).  I still run E20 for now and have not had Brad optimize my tune yet.  In my case I am running windshield washer fluid w/ only 30% meth and the number 5 nozzle from snow (375ml/min I believe).  My intake temps are now 107 - 117 during my pulls.  I have not noticed any issues with over spray or misting coming from the wastegate mod.  Even though wastegate is bleeding off that extra boost, the majority of the air is still going into the intake tract.  I have my nozzle mounted in the same spot you were planning on putting yours, just on the underside of the intake pipe.

Awesome! thanks for chiming in. I figured that nozzle location would be just fine. Has Brad expressed any concern that you meth distribution is uneven or changes when the wastegate opens?
If you have a log handy i'd love to see it to analyze.

[StealBlueSho]

here's a pic of the location on my specific  setup just to provide a visual of the space between nozzle location and wastegate



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just thought I would share that I am currently running water/meth with the wastegate mod.  I added the w/m to help with the intake temps.  Brad reported that I was getting intake temps in the 160s when we were tuning with the E20 (80-90degree days).  I still run E20 for now and have not had Brad optimize my tune yet.  In my case I am running windshield washer fluid w/ only 30% meth and the number 5 nozzle from snow (375ml/min I believe).  My intake temps are now 107 - 117 during my pulls.  I have not noticed any issues with over spray or misting coming from the wastegate mod.  Even though wastegate is bleeding off that extra boost, the majority of the air is still going into the intake tract.  I have my nozzle mounted in the same spot you were planning on putting yours, just on the underside of the intake pipe.

Sounds awesome! Thank you for the input. Obviously meth coming out of the WG-Mod is my biggest concern as I run 100%.. but if you are not getting any misting or residue then that is fantastic! Excited to see where it goes! Same with Colorado-SHOBro!

[Colorado-SHOBro]

here's a pic of the location on my specific  setup just to provide a visual of the space between nozzle location and wastegate



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just thought I would share that I am currently running water/meth with the wastegate mod.  I added the w/m to help with the intake temps.  Brad reported that I was getting intake temps in the 160s when we were tuning with the E20 (80-90degree days).  I still run E20 for now and have not had Brad optimize my tune yet.  In my case I am running windshield washer fluid w/ only 30% meth and the number 5 nozzle from snow (375ml/min I believe).  My intake temps are now 107 - 117 during my pulls.  I have not noticed any issues with over spray or misting coming from the wastegate mod.  Even though wastegate is bleeding off that extra boost, the majority of the air is still going into the intake tract.  I have my nozzle mounted in the same spot you were planning on putting yours, just on the underside of the intake pipe.

Sounds awesome! Thank you for the input. Obviously meth coming out of the WG-Mod is my biggest concern as I run 100%.. but if you are not getting any misting or residue then that is fantastic! Excited to see where it goes! Same with Colorado-SHOBro!

Well if we could get a hold of the OP in the for sale section and get him to sell us his meth parts i could make some progress! PM'd him twice now. . i'm guessing his car and parts are probably gone

[SHO9987]

Brad hasn't dived into the logs just yet.  Attached are a 1st through 3rd gear pull and then a low end 3rd gear pull up to 4th.  The system is setup to turn on 50% at about 6psi and goes full at about 10psi.