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Power per mod discussion

Started by EcoPowerParts, August 03, 2013, 11:48:40 AM

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EcoPowerParts

Thought this might be a good topic for new owners to review:
I'm going to rank these by my opinion of best mod by power per dollar spent.
1. Tuning - you can pick up 30-70HP here pretty easily depending on what fuel is available to you and if you want to run race gas or not. Figure around $500 with tuner. The lower octane you can run the lower HP you an pick up thus the range. If you really want to maximize your power with tuning doing a dyno tuning session with your tuner will pick up another 10 to 30HP (IMHO) but will cost you a few hundred dollars more. If you're looking for ever HP safely this is the best case scenario.

2. Meth injection
- you can pick up another 30-60 HP here depending on how aggressive you want to get with timing and your tuner. Cost between $200 and $1000 depending on how fancy you want to get with controllers, extra bottles for storage etc.

3. Turbo upgrade
- If you have a tune and meth injection (my suggestion) or an aux fueling solution (discussed later) you can upgrade your turbos. Worth another 30-? ??? (most HP now is 600WHP with aux fueling)HP. Currently the upgrades upgrade either your compressor wheel and/or add an aftermarket wastegate. There is also a full turbo upgrade coming this fall or winter so no one knows the true maximum output of the turbo upgrade scenario yet and how much power the block will take. Currently $1500 to $2000 for the two stock turbo upgrades, and $2200 for a true turbo center section upgrade.

4. Downpipes
- luckily multiple companies offer these now and they're getting cheaper, between $700ish and $1000 for around 20ish HP and quicker spooling of the turbos.
5. Exhaust - $100ish (remove 3rd cat, resonator and mufflers with straight pipe) to $1000+ for full stainless catback exhausts. Another 20ish HP here.
6. Intake - jury is out on this one, we've seen these drop ET/MPH from doing intakes but hopefully we'll be coming out with a new intake tube per turbo with a cold air or sealed stock style box soon. $200ish to $700

Optionals not normally used (my crazy mad scientist mods)
Nitrous - I've personally ran a 75 shot on my Flex and picked up .6 in the 1/4 mile. You can pick up a used kit and controller on Craigslist pretty cheaply and install. For all brand new gear it can get expensive. $250 (used parts) to $$$$$ for new.

Auxiliary fuel system -
I'm the only one who's built one so far, to replicate with what I know now around $2800. Gives the ability for unlimited fuel without the HPFP sagging under load. Needed in the long term for the true turbo upgrade or if you want to run E85. This includes injectors, dual in tank fuel pumps and a modified intake manifold or intake spacer (working on this one)

E85 or E85 mix -
Upgraded in tank fuel pump setup required for this one as the stock system can't handle ANY E85 mix without running out of fuel. E85 let's you increase the timing massively and run "hotter" boost while cooling the intake track off as well. An alternative to running alky/water injection but a true fuel, requires dual in tank fuel pumps to replace factory pump. E85 has allowed me to get to 600WHP on just a turbo upgrade and downpipes/cutout. You can run up to 500HP on E48 with just the in tank duel pump setup.

Exhaust Manifolds - Now that I've hit 600WHP, the small size of the factory exhaust manifolds is starting to get in the way, need to find a way to replace stockers, this might open up a way to also install a T3 turbo swap.

Water to Air Intercooler - 600WHP has caused me to start looking hard at the factory intercooler and replacing it. An aftermarket water to air will be the best scenario as there's just no good way to fit a big air to air in the front of the car. I'm guessing at the current 26PSI I'm at that I can pick up 30-50WHP here.

Dual-in-tank fuel pumps -
Auxiliary fuel system required for this one as the stock system can't handle ANY E85 mix without running out of fuel. E85 let's you increase the timing massively and run "hotter" boost while cooling the intake track off as well. An alternative to running alky/water injection but a true fuel.


That's all I've got for now, if we see more items we'll add them in the future.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

shoman04

Thanks 4dr good #s. But you forgot one, weight for every 100lb is a 0.1 sec at the track.
2011 KONA BLU SHO,Livernois Tune,AIRAID CAI,DYNOMAX MUFFLEs,Newest member of the 12sec CLUB 12.669sec @ 107mph    2011 Ford Taurus SHO: 12.669 @ 105.050 MPH NEW FOR 2013LMS down-pipe,Magnaflow X-pipe,and Custom 2.5"exhaust pipe!! Meth and stage 5 next to be install!!!!!! METH DYNO TUNE today 405AWHP!!!WOW LMS track day 12.4209sec   :mike1:

breeves002

Quote from: shoman04 on August 03, 2013, 02:29:59 PM
Thanks 4dr good #s. But you forgot one, weight for every 100lb is a 0.1 sec at the track.

So loose 100lbs then! :P

The SHO is freaking heavy as hell... Hopefully the hopefully new one in 2015 will be a bit lighter.
SHO Lover and Advanced Diagnostics Enthusiast
2008 Mercury Sable Premier - 3.5L N/A Duratec

EcoPowerParts

Well weight loss should be free. I've been thinking about pulling all my interior except driver's seat and see what it weighs and how it will run. :)
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

breeves002

Worth a shot, Although its probably only worth it when you're ready to really try and get some good runs in. Such a pain to pull everything.
SHO Lover and Advanced Diagnostics Enthusiast
2008 Mercury Sable Premier - 3.5L N/A Duratec

Needmoreboost

What about a how much s***/weight can you actually pull out of the car in less than 1 hour to reduce weight??  Pray do tell...
2014 Mustang GT/CS: white
Auto with custom Unleashed Tuning
Past honorable mentions: 13 SHO, 08 SRT4, 07 350Z, 03 Cobra, 03 Focus SVT, 00 GT Mustang, 91 LX Notch, etc.

EcoPowerParts

Edited the list with my latest findings.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

EcoBrick Bob

#7
Quote from: darreli on August 05, 2013, 11:23:42 AM
Quote from: crash712us on August 05, 2013, 11:16:10 AM
Uh-oh! Not the wheel weight argument again. Lol
Hopefully Darrell doesn't read. While you are technically correct, but with real world testing of our cars lighter weight wheels actually prove to be slower. At least in darrell case it has his 18lb tsw's have prove to be slower. It appears that the sho's heavy wheels help aid in putting the power to the pavement.

Thats funny s@#t! I was biting my tongue...LOL

I will be testing this... I have moved my 18" Nitto DR's over to some custom G8 bolt pattern Beyern Multi's... I am going to buy some bolt on wheel spacers that will allow me to run these 120 mm bolt pattern wheels on 114.3 mm bp Flex. These wheels weigh around 8 lbs more than TSW's that had the DR's on them earlier.

Perhaps lighter rear wheels are still a good idea due to the lack of available torque at rear.
2010 Red Candy/White EB Flex.. World's first 12 second Brick.. 12.904 @ 106.85 MPH - October 2011
2009 Spt. Red G8 GT - modded. best time 12.074 & 114.02 MPH
2008 White G8 GT - mods... 8.32 1/8 mi.

Naples, FL & Clear Lake, IA
Bob has decided not to post here any more, please do not PM him he will not receive it.

TouchOfEvil

If it's only 8lbs on two wheels the total drop should be about 1 tenth in the quarter. Assuming you can hook and the weight saving is not negated.
2014 XSport

QuickSilver

#9
Great thread Mike, I  :salute: to your experience and insight on the Ecoboost platform, heck you're the guy that told me about this forum from that other forum(that just has SUV's ;), thanks for that! When I look at the platform as a whole and consider what  mods to undertake, IMO the intercooler upgrade should be a much higher priority on your  list.  I built a few of these same IC's from J Yard Mitsu Eclipse cores because they are compact, thick, and have great flow  potential when adding two or more together. I built this one for another project but I'm gonna use it on Quicksilver after modding the outlet to opposite side and increasing to 3". By the looks of the stock unit, just the IC upgrade alone is gonna be worth good quality power.  Do you know of anyone who did just the IC alone with B2B testing? I'll do the seat of the pants test but that's pretty un-empirical and way subjective... 
AJ

2014 Ingot Silver Explorer Sport- LMS V3 Tune, AirRaid CAI, Hi_flow Catted DP's to Complete dual 2.5" exhaust, 19"X 9.5"TSW Panorama Rotary Forged/powdercoated Rims, Cree LED Foglights, Hoping for those Megan coilovers to be developed...

Fast SHO

#10
I just wanted to point out that an upgraded intercooler might not achieve the gains you are expecting with meth/water already one of the mods.  One of the true benefits of the meth/water injection is that it SIGNIFICANTLY cools intake charge.  In fact, a lot of the people I know run meth/water for the cooling impact and not really so much for the Octane boost.

There are some who even run without an intercooler on custom turbo builds because they have the meth injection.

A small shot of N2O achieves the same thing with the obvious HP increase.  Run say a 50 shot at the track and at the same time you can run a more aggressive tune due to the cooling effects as well.
2014 SHO PP

EcoPowerParts

Quote from: QuickSilver on November 23, 2013, 12:38:35 PM
Great thread Mike, I  :salute: to your experience and insight on the Ecoboost platform, heck you're the guy that told me about this forum from that other forum(that just has SUV's ;) , thanks for that! When I look at the platform as a whole and consider what  mods to undertake, IMO the intercooler upgrade should be a much higher priority on your  list.  I built a few of these same IC's from J Yard Mitsu Eclipse cores because they are compact, thick, and have great flow  potential when adding two or more together. I built this one for another project but I'm gonna use it on Quicksilver after modding the outlet to opposite side and increasing to 3". By the looks of the stock unit, just the IC upgrade alone is gonna be worth good quality power.  Do you know of anyone who did just the IC alone with B2B testing? I'll do the seat of the pants test but that's pretty un-empirical and way subjective... 
You guys in the explorers have a "regular" intercooler, the other transverse motors do not and it would be a HUGE undertaking to upgrade the stocker.
Mike B | info@ecopowerparts.com
www.ecopowerparts.com -
please use my website for any price quotes and to submit any orders.
Please email me via info@ecopowerparts.com if you have any questions on new or existing orders, PM's via the forum are hard to track your purchase as I can't relate user name to actual name.
https://www.facebook.com/ecopowerparts

BiGMaC

I've been quiet on this thread while you gurus hash things out.  :popcorn: I do have a question.  I've seen folks chill the intake manifold with ice.  So what do folks think about the systems that use the air conditioner to cool manifold or intake air... to make it a real CAI especially in places like Phx?  :dunno:

4DR... your updates are much appreciated!

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

68_GT

#13
Quote from: 4DRHTRD on December 06, 2013, 11:43:03 PM
Quote from: QuickSilver on November 23, 2013, 12:38:35 PM
Great thread Mike, I  :salute: to your experience and insight on the Ecoboost platform, heck you're the guy that told me about this forum from that other forum(that just has SUV's ;) , thanks for that! When I look at the platform as a whole and consider what  mods to undertake, IMO the intercooler upgrade should be a much higher priority on your  list.  I built a few of these same IC's from J Yard Mitsu Eclipse cores because they are compact, thick, and have great flow  potential when adding two or more together. I built this one for another project but I'm gonna use it on Quicksilver after modding the outlet to opposite side and increasing to 3". By the looks of the stock unit, just the IC upgrade alone is gonna be worth good quality power.  Do you know of anyone who did just the IC alone with B2B testing? I'll do the seat of the pants test but that's pretty un-empirical and way subjective... 
You guys in the explorers have a "regular" intercooler, the other transverse motors do not and it would be a HUGE undertaking to upgrade the stocker.

why is that? nothing but the size of the stocker will fit in the location, or becasue there is not one made as a direct replacement upgrade ? That would be nice to swap in a new intercooler for a meth like power increase.

thanks

Bigmac the killer chillers on the SVTPerformance seemed to be a decent upgrade is there something like that for our cars ? those a/c to intercooler kits are cooling off a heat exchanger / water / coolant intercooler system so it's not like ours though.
2013 PP SHO LMS 93V10 tune, 170* T stat, 3bar, K&N drop in, plugs re-gapped, 4in exhaust tips.
UPDATE - 130K miles =blown engine. Unleashed tune and EBPP upgrade turbo billet wheels / Turbo Smart WGA's on a bran new long block. Let's get this SHO on the road !

2013 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB daily driver ;) - LMS 93 tune and CPE intercooler

DJE624

I was just wondering if the chiller makes much more power as it takes to run it.  We all shut off our a/c when racing just to get the power back that it uses.