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Pre turbo injection?

Started by F150Eco, June 13, 2017, 12:49:11 PM

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SilvererSHO

Quote from: TopherSho on June 13, 2017, 09:34:04 PM
Not a expert, but here in Oregon we spend half the year sub 75 and have very moist conditions.   In a pre turbo injection setup I think I'd be bathing the inlet if I had it turn on too high.


Now we just have to come up with a way to inject the same amount of meth all the time and electronically vary the amount of H20 injected depending upon the humidity level of the intake air at any given time. 8)
All Silver(er)SHO.  2012, every option with PP running new Firehawk Indy 500's.

F150Eco

Quote from: SilvererSHO on June 13, 2017, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on June 13, 2017, 09:34:04 PM
Not a expert, but here in Oregon we spend half the year sub 75 and have very moist conditions.   In a pre turbo injection setup I think I'd be bathing the inlet if I had it turn on too high.


Now we just have to come up with a way to inject the same amount of meth all the time and electronically vary the amount of H20 injected depending upon the humidity level of the intake air at any given time. 8)
Or you could inject 100%. 😋

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J-Will

Quote from: mwemaxxowner on June 13, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
Rodney from prometh.

Keep sharing your experience with ProMeth. They have a very appealing direct inject setup for us SHO owners. 
2014 Factory Order SHO (non pp) Deep Impact Blue
Gearhead Automotive Performance Tune
3-bar
SP-542 plugs w/ GH gap

F150Eco

I will. I'm still in just the kicking around ideas phase. I want to be sure I'm getting the most out of what I have with nozzle placement. Sooner or later I want to call Rodney and chat with him. I hope he won't shrug me off when he hears I already have a kit and am not sure I'm going to spend more money or not. I'm willing to buy from them if I decide to run more nozzles though.

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F150Eco

And as for the direct injection kit they have, they don't make one for the 2.7, but they do have a "u bend it" kit, which includes everything necessary (except the manifold) that I need to make my own. Essentially, I would be drilling and tapping the manifold myself, and bending the lines from the "splitter" just like they would at their warehouse.

Ultimately this direct port injection is what I want. Probably with a 7th and 8th nozzle pre turbo if I determine it's a good idea. If not, with a 7th nozzle post cac. That's the best way to ensure proper distribution across each cylinder, and have ultimate cooling off the combustion chamber. And extra fueling if I need it, but I don't plan on pushing that hard.

I don't think I'll opt for a port injection kit until after the warranty is up though. I try to keep all of my mods for now easy to return to stock. Pulling the intake manifold is not what I consider easy and quick. Lol. Swapping out a charge pipe is.

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ZSHO

#20
I'm not all to familiar with the 2.7 Transverse!! But placing an 8th injector pre-turbo might be a bit excessive,overkill IMO and not warranted.
But interesting Concept for sure and keep us updated on your newly found venture. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

TopherSho

Quote from: SilvererSHO on June 13, 2017, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on June 13, 2017, 09:34:04 PM
Not a expert, but here in Oregon we spend half the year sub 75 and have very moist conditions.   In a pre turbo injection setup I think I'd be bathing the inlet if I had it turn on too high.


Now we just have to come up with a way to inject the same amount of meth all the time and electronically vary the amount of H20 injected depending upon the humidity level of the intake air at any given time. 8)

LOL,  if we only knew who could have such a system :P
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

F150Eco

I don't think it makes much difference, but this isn't a transverse motor.

Keep in mind we're talking about a VERY small nozzle. This isn't really intended to be used as fueling or even to directly cool the cylinders very much. Usually about a .75 or 1.0 gpm nozzle at high pressure. The goal is for it to completely flash off in the turbo, cooling the charge very effectively, and shifting the efficiency range, allowing you to flow more lb/min. I am curious if we could use this to, not necessarily flow more lb/min, but to flow the same lb/min as my hottest 93 tune, but do so without working the turbos so hard. With such small turbos doing so much, that's why I wonder if it could be a huge benefit for me/us. Obviously we fight heat every step of the way. Who doesn't want much cooler, denser air? Lol

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mrhighcaliber

I've got something up my sleeve that I've been researching for months, planing and will ultimately be coming together this week. (Soon as my lms alky, devils own, and Summit boxes sho up 😉). Im going to start a thread on it when I get started. Muahahah

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NITSOOB

I've been researching this topic extensively as well.

It seems that our tiny turbos would benefit from this greatly considering an aftermarket intake neglects gains due to the increase in temperature. This would reduce temps AND create denser air.

From reading as much as I could find, there have been a few folks with damaged turbo vanes, could be for a variety of reasons, including percentage of meth to the injection not atomizing properly before the inlet, or maybe even leaks.

I'm probably going this route, with the smallest nozzle possible, highest pressure possible, and 100% water. (here's a good review on temp vs water/meth ratio and nozzles: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/pre-compressor-injection-test-results.363191)

They sell a kit made for the K03 turbo(inlet size approx 1.5 inches), but its a bit overpriced IMO for a nozzle holder, nozzle, and lines. http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1943

Anyone know what our turbo inlet size is?
2013 PP SHO - 3.5" DPs, 3.5" Exhaust, 3" Coldside
Pending: 5-Blade billet wheel, AJP Tune
1/8: 8.4@86

mrhighcaliber

#25
Quote from: NITSOOB on July 03, 2017, 10:08:38 PM
I've been researching this topic extensively as well.

It seems that our tiny turbos would benefit from this greatly considering an aftermarket intake neglects gains due to the increase in temperature. This would reduce temps AND create denser air.

From reading as much as I could find, there have been a few folks with damaged turbo vanes, could be for a variety of reasons, including percentage of meth to the injection not atomizing properly before the inlet, or maybe even leaks.

I'm probably going this route, with the smallest nozzle possible, highest pressure possible, and 100% water. (here's a good review on temp vs water/meth ratio and nozzles: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/pre-compressor-injection-test-results.363191)

They sell a kit made for the K03 turbo(inlet size approx 1.5 inches), but its a bit overpriced IMO for a nozzle holder, nozzle, and lines. http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1943

Anyone know what our turbo inlet size is?
If youre using 100% meth, you don't need to inject center of the turbo compressor inlet. Use a fine nozzle like a 1gph 3-8inches from compressor housing and youre good. Water is abt 25% more dense and does not flash off as quickly, which leads to concerns of water pooling in the intake tubing causing larges masses of water to be sucked in. so special care must be taken for higher water ratio solutions. But 100% meth, you're fine.

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