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Question about Livernois tune

Started by MKSecobeast, June 11, 2017, 04:20:25 PM

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Brucelinc

Not all cars are the same so you will want to experiment.  I could run 12.8s consistently on just plain 93 which contains 10% ethanol.   My personal best of 12.68 was with a mixture but it was also on a cool morning with better air.   I suspect the conditions had more to do with the better time than the fuel.

Many guys swear by adding some E85 and they have timeslips proving that it helps.   I couldn't make it work for me but it never hurts to try.   Do NOT overdo it, though. 

TopherSho

#16
Quote from: Brucelinc on June 15, 2017, 11:49:23 AM
Not all cars are the same so you will want to experiment.  I could run 12.8s consistently on just plain 93 which contains 10% ethanol.   My personal best of 12.68 was with a mixture but it was also on a cool morning with better air.   I suspect the conditions had more to do with the better time than the fuel.

Many guys swear by adding some E85 and they have timeslips proving that it helps.   I couldn't make it work for me but it never hurts to try.   Do NOT overdo it, though.

^ this...  the prevailing conditions are very impactful to the performance of these cars.

As AJP has educated me on, the IAT2 sensor on the top of the intake manifold is your new best friend and hated enemy.  It's temp reading controls your spark/advance tables,  as the temp of that sensor (and others) go higher the more timing it will pull.  And for these cars that retardation will greatly lower your 1/4 mile times and 0-70pmh times. 

These cars are sedans and not configured to lose heat that easily in favor of quite smooth operation. 

you will have to experiment to find out more, but as mentioned mixing e85 is both good and bad and may have differing impacts. 

the STOIC for e85 (depending on the ACTUAL real ethanol content of the e85 bought) is 9.xx,   regular gas is 14.7x,  this greatly changes the characteristic of the burn, (flame-front).  so your 'burn' is less efficient the more e85 you add.  BUT if the octane increase offset the HYPER Aggressive timing on the race tune then it may be a net gain anyways. 

thing being with the MYCAL,  you should be able to get a better higher ethonal count tune and flip between them on race day..
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

AJP turbo

The problem though, correct me if I'm wrong, is I don't think LMS supports the use of E85 to your fuel mix
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

StealBlueSho

Quote from: AJP turbo on June 15, 2017, 01:24:25 PM
The problem though, correct me if I'm wrong, is I don't think LMS supports the use of E85 to your fuel mix


Correct, they will not tune for e85 on the SHO. You can add a couple gallons to your tank with their tunes and be fine. I have datalogs showing good fuel pressure doing just that.

Besides, it's your job to tune us corn fed guys...

StealBlueSho

If you are not getting any KR with their tunes, I might argue there is no real world benefit to a couple gallons of E85 with their tunes....

If you ARE getting a small amount of KR then a couple gallons of corn makes a difference.

TopherSho

Quote from: StealBlueSho on June 15, 2017, 01:43:14 PM
If you are not getting any KR with their tunes, I might argue there is no real world benefit to a couple gallons of E85 with their tunes....

If you ARE getting a small amount of KR then a couple gallons of corn makes a difference.

^^ +1

Run this test carefully.  go to your safe test spot.  let the car sit and idle until your IAT is 140/150+.  then make a run .. if you see knock you have a fuel quality issue or dirty/old/poorly gapped plug issue.

2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

Brucelinc

Quote from: StealBlueSho on June 15, 2017, 01:43:14 PM
If you are not getting any KR with their tunes, I might argue there is no real world benefit to a couple gallons of E85 with their tunes....

If you ARE getting a small amount of KR then a couple gallons of corn makes a difference.

I think you are exactly right.  I never got KR at WOT with my LMS tunes on the BP 93 that I get here.  That is probably why adding a bit of the E85 to my car didn't do any good. 

MKSecobeast

I think we got off topic. I'm not using E85. I was asking if it would be safe to run like a 90% 93 and 10% 102 unleaded race fuel on a LMS 4 Plus tune.

thanks in advance,
Jake
10' MKS Ecoboost, Thunderstorm CAI, Evenflo T-stat, Livernois 0.30 plugs, 3 bar map, my cal tuner, LMS non-catted dp's, LMS 93 stage 4 plus tune, 7' tablet running torque pro, factory 20's,custom badges and decals.

SHOdded

On the 4+ (not sure about 4+R), yes it should be fine.  The total will average out to 93.9 octane, should provide a good safety margin at the least.  To see how the car responds to the change, you should run Torque Pro with the custom parameters listed here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

StealBlueSho

Quote from: MKSecobeast on June 16, 2017, 03:11:37 AM
I think we got off topic. I'm not using E85. I was asking if it would be safe to run like a 90% 93 and 10% 102 unleaded race fuel on a LMS 4 Plus tune.

thanks in advance,
Jake


Yes, not only is it safe, but recommended/encouraged by LMS to mix 102 octane race fuel with 93 octane gas with their 4+X tunes.

Brucelinc

Quote from: MKSecobeast on June 16, 2017, 03:11:37 AM
I think we got off topic. I'm not using E85. I was asking if it would be safe to run like a 90% 93 and 10% 102 unleaded race fuel on a LMS 4 Plus tune.

thanks in advance,
Jake

Jake, as I said earlier, I ran 7 gallons of 93 mixed with 3 gallons of 102.   One of the guys at Livernois (Anthony?) once told me that you can't OVER octane the car but you will reach a point where it does no further good.  My experience was that it didn't do much of anything to the timeslips but it would be added protection against spark knock.

TopherSho

Your octane would be 93.9x, and your STOIC would increase 10% from your current STOIC value.  over all there would be no performane loss and would be safe.

2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

StealBlueSho

Unless you are monitoring for KR, you have no idea if you need more octane...unless you can audibly hear knock...