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KR and WOT Misfire/Hesitation LMS Tune

Started by ShoBoat, April 20, 2017, 02:46:10 PM

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ShoBoat

Hello Everyone,
I know that it has been a while, my personal life has taken my time away from my hobbies as of late. If you have read some of my previous posts you probably know that I have had some issues with my car and LMS tunes (this will be explained later) I was one of the first to get a LMS tune on the 13 SHOs back in early 2013. At that time Andy was at LMS and he personally installed the tune in my car and I also at the time had the Corsa Cat-back installed. Couldn't have been happier with the tune at the time, so forward onto 2014, LMS had recommended that I update my tuner and tunes to the V7, V7 CW and V8 tunes that they were shipping in spring of 2014 as I was having a really small hesitation with the Andy installed tune (this I think was fuel related). So I did, and this is when things started to go down hill. Tuned I would get KR just driving around the city and highway, (mid level throttle input before a downshift)  and then there was the dreaded 3 gear wot downshift.... The car would run out of fuel (in cold temps) and misfire/sputter. I did not have an issue with WOT from a dig. At the track the car ran great best time was a 12.6. But I still had the drivability issues around town. After multiple trips to the dealer and fuel pumps and numerous parts replaced I still had these issues, I posted several possible fixes here on the forum as many of you know it was driving me nuts. I blamed everything from the crappy fuel here in Canada to the car itself. Now forward onto 2016, new revisions of V9 and V10. I updated my tune files once again, and the KR issue was still there and even worse on the V10 tune. Also the fuel issue at WOT downshift into 3rd was also still there. It got to the point where after a few weeks I pulled the tune and left it stock until just recently.
I was convinced that there was something wrong with my car and it couldn't accept tuning. Just a side note I return my car to stock every fall until spring. I tried the LMS V10 91 tune last week in my car once again, new plugs oil change (only Mobil 1 Syn since new) air filter etc. Same issues persisted, so bad in fact that that my LOR was reading 0.7 on 94 Octane fuel.
I returned the car to stock once again and I was convinced that I was going to be trading in the car for a 2018 Mustang GT in the fall. Also I had 0 issues driving the car with the stock tune. I decided to exchange some email's with Torrie as he recently tuned my friends 2007 Trailblazer SS and from feedback on this forum. As a last ditch attempt what the hell I order the tuner from Torrie and it was at my house in a few days. Torrie emailed me a 93 Tune (no revisions yet). All I can say is that all the drivability issues I had with the car are gone. 0-0.5 KR is all I see, even lugging on the highway in 6th with moderate pedal input (the LMS tune would have been pulling timing like nuts here). (Same tank of fuel BTW) The car feels as strong with Unleashed as it did with LMS at WOT, but it seems that all of the drivability issues are gone. If I was going to compare it really feels like the first tune that Andy installed in my car back in 2013. I will get the car to the track and see what times she pulls and report back. I will Also add to this post with longer term results from the Unleashed tune.

Now on to the disclaimer, these are my findings on my own car. LMS was decent to me, responsive and quick to reply. However their inability to alter the tunes even when I was having issues was disappointing (unless you put the car on their dyno). Also the first response was to blame the car. There must be something wrong with the car it can't be our tune, even when on this very forum multiple users were reporting similar issues. Admittedly I was a LMS fanboy, I had been to their shop multiple times even turned up to a track day (although it got rained out). I know what is going to happen the minute I post this. I'm not trying to stir the pot, however I feel like I have a responsibility to the community to report this. If it saves someone the aggravation that I have endured for the last 2 years.

I think Torrie has his email wired directly into his brain, he gets back to you within minutes, so far his customer service has been excellent.
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

AJP turbo

Nothing wrong with your post....good thing the tuning market is competitive.....sometimes you win customers over and sometimes you lose them...thanks for posting and now enjoy your car!

Stacked manufacturing tolerances and create a situation where a particular car/calibration combo require special attention
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

ShoBoat

Thanks, Nice to see you making a name for yourself. Good luck with the business!
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

SHOdded

Glad you found a resolution, ShoBoat, and it has been entirely too long since you last posted!  Seems to be a common issue with our Canadian brethren :(  Hope life issues are nothing too serious, and glad you have stayed with the SHO.

BTW, AJ has email & tuning wired directly into his brain as well LOL.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

AJP turbo

Quote from: SHOdded on April 20, 2017, 03:41:27 PM


BTW, AJ has email & tuning wired directly into his brain as well LOL.

I look at the forum while at work but Torrie is super fast....I have a day job so responses will be limited at times
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

ShoBoat

Quote from: SHOdded on April 20, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
Glad you found a resolution, ShoBoat, and it has been entirely too long since you last posted!  Seems to be a common issue with our Canadian brethren :(  Hope life issues are nothing too serious, and glad you have stayed with the SHO.

BTW, AJ has email & tuning wired directly into his brain as well LOL.

Thabks SHOdded, nothing too serious. I did want to stay with the SHO, I do like the car. I have quite a few mods on it. I almost traded it in last winter on a Fusion Sport but wound up no liking it so much... at least this way I can do the meth bigger turbos and coil overs :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

lamrith

I would agree I do not see an issue with a post like this.  The big difference is that you are comparing "canned" tunes to custom.

LMS provides more of "canned" tunes, I believe.  They make tunes that will work in the great majority of cars without the need to datalog or custom adjust.  Yes they can custom tune, but as mentioned have to go to their shop and run on their dyno.  That is a way for them to control as much of the load parameters as possible when logging so they can compare results over time and develop knowledge for new updates for everyone.  These type of tunes are perfect for a great majority of car owners actually, addicts like us on these forum are the exception.  Most vehicle owners want to plug in a tuner, click a few buttons and get "free power"  They do not have the patience, ability or interest in running logs to really dial a tune in.  The produce LMS provides is perfect for that sort of owner.

Torrie and AJP are custom tuners by design.  Sure the initial tune might work fine, much like LMS.  But it will be a conservative tune, the real cheddar is when you run datalogs for them and then they really dial your car in.  As AJ mentioned sometimes stacking tolerances can give an end result of a vehicle that is not "to spec".  Is it "your car has an issue" well from a black and white technical aspect possibly yes due to stacking.  However that does not mean you have a bad car, or need to replace parts.  It just means you would benefit from a custom tune, maybe more than others would, as the OP's results are showing.  The custom tune's are worth their weight in platinum in that situation, they will allow the owner to get the most power possible from the car, but just as important, retain driveability.
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

ShoBoat

LMS does not consider their tunes canned, trust me. Been there done that.... I do completely agree with you on custom VS canned. The interesting thing about my initial observations is that no alterations have been made to the initial tune from Unleashed, I have not data logged my car as of yet. That was the starting tune I have in my car now and I can tell by just looking at the initial reading from torque app and FORScan there is room to move. The drivability aspect is what concerns me the most driving around town is where we spend most of our time in our cars. Passing someone on the highway only to have the car fall on its face is a bit troubling to say the least... thanks for the posts guys the support is appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ZSHO

#8
The main objective is she's finally running to its fullest potential without any hiccups to mention and hopefully you can start enjoying your SHO of a lifetime and move on!!!!.
BTW would of rather went with our in House Tuner AJP-Turbo(Warlock)instead but glad everything worked out accordingly and don't be a stranger,best of luck.  Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

ShoBoat

Thanks Z and exactly. I really didn't know about AJP until today lol. That's how long it's been.... I would have seriously considered it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

lamrith

Quote from: ShoBoat on April 20, 2017, 11:20:32 PM
Thanks Z and exactly. I really didn't know about AJP until today lol. That's how long it's been.... I would have seriously considered it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nothing says you can't have both....... :devil:
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

StealBlueSho

Quote from: lamrith on April 20, 2017, 11:25:56 PM
Quote from: ShoBoat on April 20, 2017, 11:20:32 PM
Thanks Z and exactly. I really didn't know about AJP until today lol. That's how long it's been.... I would have seriously considered it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nothing says you can't have both....... :devil:


I have had all three... LMS... Unleashed...and AJPTurbo...

Funny story... Unleashed couldn't get a good tune on my SHO... KR.. fuel pressure issues.. I replaced the LPFP, HPFP, and FPDM.. Torrie kept saying an issue with my car...

LMS tunes run fine and AJPTurbo has tuned the hell out of this thing... I personally run AJPTurbos tunes now.. LMS is OK, but as their tunes are canned (ya ya ya... I know.. "if you know how this car works you don't need custom tuning" is their motto) they tend to leave a lot on the table I think..


Congrats on getting a tune that works!

ShoBoat

That is so weird you had the opposite issue with LMS and Unleashed... no pressure here lol. I might just give AJP a try at some point.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

16MagSport

#13
This post is exactly why I went with the SCT and custom tuning instead of LMS.  I was on the fence because I thought I should just do a canned tune for my wife's explorer, but I modified the hell out of my Mustang and tuned it myself so it wasn't in my nature to fly blind without the ability to log and see exactly what is going on.  LMS also had some really screwy responses to my questions.  I really think the guy responding on the forums had no idea what the tunes were doing.  He was obviously not one of their tuners.  Now, my first choice didn't work out, but the good thing is that with the SCT, you have a lot of choices in custom tunes.  I almost went with Torrie, but then I heard about this AJP guy on here.  My *** tunes had audible knock and the stock tune showed a ton of KR, so we really thought something was wrong with my wife's Ex.  *** stopped getting back to me and I didn't like how he made it feel like a strung out racecar, so I gave up on him.  I just wanted more power when I went WOT and I wanted it to drive like stick at low throttle positions.  I gave up for a while and then posted on here.  AJP read my posts and he sounded like he was very knowledgeable.  After some back and forth on the forum, I PM'd him and asked if he would be willing to try and tune it.  He said yes, but no promises.  Brad sent me tunes at no cost and said he didn't want me to send him any money until we made some progress.  It didn't take long.  I kept asking him how to send him money and he just kept sending me tunes.  I think I was on rev 5 before he answered my question on how to pay him.  He was very responsive and read all my emails and answered my detailed tune questions.  We went over numerous datalogs together over email.  I am extremely happy with his customer service.  I hope that we aren't done yet but I haven't talked to him for months.

Got a little sidetracked here, but the moral of the story is that all vehicles are not the same and datalogging may be absolutely necessary for some.  We figured out that I was getting a lot of false knock detected, even with the stock tune on premium 91 Octane fuel.  AJP very slowly and safely turned it up and I did some things to help decrease the false knock at WOT.  Just dressed the knock sensor wires as detailed in this forum.
I was originally thrown off and thought it was real knock because I had audible knock with the *** tune.  My logs with that tune didn't tell the whole story because I was sent a 2bar tune eventhough I  asked for a 3 bar.  So, my boost was pegged which means I have no idea how much I was getting.  The advance didn't seem out of line, but the boost must have been way up there, combined with WOT shifts with no retard.  It would detonate on the boost spikes when it shifted to 3rd.  It was fast, but not civilized.  It would hop the tires and jerk the wheel on the 1-2 shift.  Boost must have been really high.  I didn't want to break it.  I went back to stock until AJP saved the day.  The cool thing with SCT is that for $150 or so you can get multiple tunes from multiple tuners.  With LMS you only get theirs and if it doesn't work with your hardware, you are SOL and flying blind when trying to figure out what is wrong.  I hope to get back in the game and try some more tunes at the track.  I just need to steal the Ex Sport from my wife.  The Stang is still laid up and I am going through withdrawals.  The only speed I have felt lately is downhill on the mountain bike and that ended with a broken collar bone 6 weeks ago!  I am going crazy in this sling and the plate and 10 screws don't feel so great.  I hope to race the Ex again after I get out of the sling next week.  Sorry for the long post!

After studying logs and talking with Brad a lot, I think that one of the main reasons I had audible knock with the *** tunes is because of the advance not retarding on the shifts.  With the 2 bar, the tune did not pull timing as the boost spiked because it could not measure those spikes.  Also, the *** tunes kept the advance up on the shifts.  The stock tune timing retard on shifts was removed from the tune.  This made it faster and felt pretty awesome on the shift, but this is my wife's daily and I didn't want to kill it.  I also didn't like it spinning the front tires and causing torque steer on the shift.  Brad's is still pretty damn fast and very smooth so I can go WOT onto the hwy without pissing off the wife.  Also, if I didn't have the issues that made *** tunes unusable, I am sure AJP (Brad) could make it just as quick if I asked him to.  He told me about what he was doing with the tune and another thing I saw in the datalogs were things that *** claimed only he knew how to do.  I would say AJP is up there with the best and has GREAT customer service.


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2016 Magnetic Explorer Sport 401A  (Wife's DD)  13.55 @ 99.87 mph AJP Tune Only.
1993 Mustang, Big Bore Dart block 347 with Vortech SC, TKO500, 10.84 @ 128.5mph
         (Burned in Cali wildfire)
2006 Dodge Ram, 2WD Quad Cab Hemi, 14.60 @ 92mph
         (Burned in Cali wildfire)

ShoBoat

I am hearing lots of good things about AJP. So far Torrie has been good, working on trans still getting it to my liking. It's almost there. Once that is done we will move onto data logging. Right now the car runs fantastic drivability is great and I'm not fixed on my torque readout wondering if I'm going to break something or blow the motor. I guess our shitty Canadian gas isn't all that bad :) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.