• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

2013 XSport Dyno Runs - MiWiAu

Started by MiWiAu, October 21, 2016, 06:52:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

SHOdded

I fixed the links :) but got "chastised" for not paying attention :(

You can copy and paste in the direct links from PB, do not need to enclose within an IMG parameter.

The graphs show a nice progressive improvement, well done!  Points out the advantage of higher octane fueling.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

MiWiAu

Quote from: SHOdded on December 25, 2016, 07:21:33 AM
I fixed the links :) but got "chastised" for not paying attention :(

You can copy and paste in the direct links from PB, do not need to enclose within an IMG parameter.

The graphs show a nice progressive improvement, well done!  Points out the advantage of higher octane fueling.

Oh, okay! I got yelled at yesterday, too, for foruming while the outlaws were over. LOL

Thanks for the tip on the images, Manu! Now I can wipe my own butt! Hahaha

Merry Christmas!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2013 XSport

SHOdded

I am guessing a lot more were "in the doghouse" but won't admit to it LOL.

Yeah i wish posting were more intuitive than it is, but ...

Thanks for the wishes, now quit browsing forums and go pamper wifey :D
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

MiWiAu

Quote from: SHOdded on December 25, 2016, 09:18:14 AM
I am guessing a lot more were "in the doghouse" but won't admit to it LOL.

Yeah i wish posting were more intuitive than it is, but ...

Thanks for the wishes, now quit browsing forums and go pamper wifey :D

Or can't admit, because their phones or fingers got broken.

10-4 chief. Thanks for saving my marriage. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2013 XSport

SHOdded

2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

BlueSHO

Mike, awesome amount of data collecting You definately gave your turbos some exercise. To bad your weren't on a dynojet but it is what it is and you were able to gain useful information..Thanks for sharing and Merry Christmas.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

2016 SHO Blue Jeans
2001 Lightning
1996 Mystic Cobra

MiWiAu

I got a request to show the total power comparison across the entire RPM band, so I updated Figures 6 & 7 in post #9.

There was a teeny-tiny drop in total % increase across the overall RPM band as compared to the 3500-5940RPM range, mainly because the biggest gains were mid-range RPM. You can see in the Figure 6 area plot that the HP curves didn't really start to diverge until about 2900 RPM. I excluded the Unleashed numbers for the overall RPM band, since we couldn't WOT until 3500RPM due to downshifts, and it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
2013 XSport

FordFam

Wow way to get granular with the data. Fantastic break down. I've almost always seen an increase in numbers from a mustang dyno to a DJ. These are pretty much the mods I'm doing to the Xsport and I was kind of hoping to see higher numbers I didn't think the base run would be that low but I'm assuming that is the dyno being used.
65 mustang coupe shell of a car right now  •  72 custom shovel head  •  78 F-250 mud truck 40" boggers
2000 Mercurcy/Ford Cougar SVT  •  2010 F-150 on Fox 2.0  •  2014 Explorer Sport • 94 Jeep GC V8 Crawler

AJP turbo

Yea I agree the numbers are low but the awsome thing he did was compare stock to 2 different tuners and at least the numbers are consistently low

They call those dynos heartbreakers fir a reason lol
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

MiWiAu

#24
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 02, 2017, 12:39:45 PM
Yea I agree the numbers are low but the awsome thing he did was compare stock to 2 different tuners and at least the numbers are consistently low

They call those dynos heartbreakers fir a reason lol

While the absolute numbers on the Mustang dyno are low, I believe the relative deltas are accurate, as alluded to by AJP Turbo.

As a [rough] point of comparison, I ran on a Dynojet a day prior to my Post #1 run on the Mustang. The results are not totally apples to apples, since AWD was disabled for the Dynojet (no linked rollers), but looking at an average of the peak HP/torque numbers, the Mustang read about 15% lower than the Dynojet, which is in the ballpark of the 12-15% difference I have read elsewhere.

If you start with the OE crank HP and torque (365HP/350TQ) and factor in 20% drivetrain loss and a less generous 12% reduction from Dynojet to Mustang correction you'd come up with:
  365 Crank HP * (1-0.20 drivetrain loss-0.12 Mustang correction) = 365 * 0.68 = 248.2 Mustang HP
  350 Crank TQ * (1-0.20 drivetrain loss-0.12 Mustang correction) = 350 * 0.68 = 238.0 Mustang TQ

Looking at the Peak HP/TQ numbers from my last Mustang dyno runs with the OE tune and 93 octane fuel, I was at 245HP/242.8TQ, which is pretty darn close to the calculated value of 248.2HP/238.0TQ using the 20% drivetrain loss and 12% Mustang correction.

I haven't done any other correlation work to confirm these drivetrain losses or the Mustang correction factor, but anecdotal evidence leads me to believe these assumptions are not wildly unreasonable, and makes my numbers on the Mustang a little less... err... heartbreaking? Hopefully nobody goes pissing in my Cheerios, because I feel pretty good with how everything seems to be shaking out. ;)

At any rate, it's a good example of why you'd want to use the same dyno for all your testing, because moving from dyno to dyno (even of the same type) could give false positive (or negative) gains.

Quote from: FordFam on January 02, 2017, 12:29:43 PM
Wow way to get granular with the data. Fantastic break down. I've almost always seen an increase in numbers from a mustang dyno to a DJ. These are pretty much the mods I'm doing to the Xsport and I was kind of hoping to see higher numbers I didn't think the base run would be that low but I'm assuming that is the dyno being used.

Personally, I'd focus on the relative changes between the baseline and tuned runs (almost 10% total power increase with tuned 87 octane and nearly 20% with tuned 93 octane!). I wasn't really chasing numbers, moreso just curious about relative gains between all the tunes. I can tell you that my @$$ dyno definitely picks up power improvements for any of the tunes over OE, and my on-road data logs also show that AJP's 87 performance tune was 0.162 sec faster in 0-60MPH time over the Unleashed tune as well (see post #2).

If you buy what I'm selling above about the 20% drivetrain loss and 12% lower reading from Dynojet to Mustang, you should be able to take any of my Mustang numbers and multiply them by 1.176 to get an approximation of what sort of output you might see on a Dynojet.

The nice thing is, the more I stack up the data, the more confidence I gain that my results are correlated, because SCIENCE, lol. :)
2013 XSport

QuickSilver

I'm not a big math guy(or even good with numbers actually :-\ ) so I want to thank you for explaining the data results in a way that even I can understand it. Interesting that the 87 tune made a little more power in certain areas than the 93 tune ???.  I haven't done anything other than maintenance on my XSport in too long :(
AJ

2014 Ingot Silver Explorer Sport- LMS V3 Tune, AirRaid CAI, Hi_flow Catted DP's to Complete dual 2.5" exhaust, 19"X 9.5"TSW Panorama Rotary Forged/powdercoated Rims, Cree LED Foglights, Hoping for those Megan coilovers to be developed...

Blackhawk

For what it is worth, the default 87 octane tune from Torrie doesn't add boost from my understanding.

AJP turbo

Quote from: QuickSilver on January 09, 2017, 09:50:33 PM
Interesting that the 87 tune made a little more power in certain areas than the 93 tune ???

Im not seeing that?

Do you mean the stock tune but with 93 octan fuel?
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

MiWiAu

Quote from: QuickSilver on January 09, 2017, 09:50:33 PM
I'm not a big math guy(or even good with numbers actually :-\ ) so I want to thank you for explaining the data results in a way that even I can understand it. Interesting that the 87 tune made a little more power in certain areas than the 93 tune ???.  I haven't done anything other than maintenance on my XSport in too long :(

No problem, AJ! Thanks for checking out the thread, and I really appreciate the feedback! As long as it's helping people out (and Manu continues to help me fix my image links), I'll keep posting stuff up as I get it. :)

With regards to your question on the 87 vs 93 tune, I assume you're referring to the chart in post #15? Frankly, I was hesitant to post that one and did so just for a rough reference point. Those runs were done 2 months apart, and I also just realized that I ran those in different gears (the 87 pull was in 4th, the 93 was in 3rd). I went back to post 15 and noted the difference. There were also some hardware differences. What was weird was that there was a big dip in the HP/Torque curves on the 87 that was not there on the 93. I can't really explain why that happened, but the dip on the 87 was present in 3 pulls on the Mustang dyno as well as 3 pulls on a Dynojet a day prior.

The results in post #9 are all same day, same gear, same hardware, same fuel so these are better comparison points. The only variables were the tunes. You'll note on those charts that the 93 tune was consistently above all the 87 tunes. Granted, I was running 93 fuel with the 87 tunes, but I wouldn't expect a HUGE difference with 87, since Brad's tune is set to max out at 3 degrees of additional advance under WOT.

Any other questions, feel free to ask, before it all gets too fuzzy. :)
2013 XSport

MiWiAu

Quote from: Blackhawk on January 09, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
For what it is worth, the default 87 octane tune from Torrie doesn't add boost from my understanding.

Could be. I won't have time tonight, but I'll go back and compare and post a log comparison of AJP vs Unleashed for the 87 tunes 0-60 WOT. I have some fuzzy recollections, but I'd rather go back and check the data before posting unverified information.
2013 XSport