Learning is dirty

Fozzforded · November 21, 2016, 04:12:22 PM

Well I've had the 2010 sho for over a year and now I need to learn to get some dirty hands before the winter completely kills my motivation. Needless to say, it's a total pleasure to own and does still run well though she lived a marathoner life before me and was under maintained by a repeat offender...any guesses what the 1st owner wasn't for a living?...
I'm so grateful for these types of forums and hope to become a member with some degree of aptitude and willingness to infect the Internet with impunity of the boosted type.

On over to my pressing issue with trying to get more than 3-4 liters of coolant through the petcock as Ive drained once and got 4 L and then strained, put it back in and drained a second time and got less than 3 L...

Im going to like it here more than under the car I think

derfdog15 · November 21, 2016, 04:22:18 PM

Any chance there is air in the system? Below is the burping procedure for the ford 4.6 DOHC (which uses the same thermostat upgrade as the SHO).

http://www.reischeperformance.com/refill.html

Here is a detailed post on a similar topic and on these forums:

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=5147.0

And a video that may help as well: https://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2011_Ford_Taurus_SHO_3.5L_V6_Turbo/coolant_antifreeze/flush_coolant

A video of 3 bar map sensor install and thermostat install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unIo9MZOVI

Another thermostat Install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dzNwfeAlm4

SHOdded · November 21, 2016, 04:35:50 PM

Definitely air pockets can develop VERY easily with the Ecoboost cooling system. The best thing to do is burp it using the degas bottle and a Lisle spillfree funnel if need be. At the very least, you would want to jack up the right side of the car to provide a high point, and speed up the process.

Other HOW TOs are here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,107.0.html

And, welcome to the forum, glad to have you and your 2010 SHO here!

Fozzforded · November 21, 2016, 06:55:24 PM

Thanks gents,

I've been rehearsing how to do this with some of the links you both provided and for good measure am going to be reading/watching for a while yet.

If someone can direct me on the following questions or just lead me to the water please:

1) should the heater be left in on position before the draining process begins to ensure an open thermostat? ie. do I need to have an open thermostat to get the near 8 L drain?

Reason I ask as I mentioned, I'm only getting 3-4 L in the 2 attempts I made to drain the system and thought I should be getting under 8 L. I would like to flush with some water as the system is at the electrolysis threshold of 0.3 volts.

2) what should be the last state of the fans and climate control settings before shutting down and draining if question 1 has no preference on the outcome -- and I don't know what I talking about if this climate control has no impact on the drain at all...?

3) Do I need to remove the thermostat to get the most out of the drain in my case? Does that make my car a special edition?!

Thanks for your info and links and I believe that the coolant is original, thus no need for burping prior to my drains but man did she run hot in the summer. I have followed the burping protocol and raised the passenger side to make the reservoir the high point but loss drainage the second time with no burping done after adding the 1st right back in...

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

SHOdded · November 21, 2016, 07:23:35 PM

Don't have to worry about climate control settings. Just the car/engine has to be completely off. Notes from the FSM:

QuoteNOTE: Less than 80% of coolant capacity can be recovered with the engine in the vehicle. Dirty, rusty or contaminated coolant requires replacement.

Release the pressure in the cooling system by slowly turning the pressure relief cap one half to one turn counterclockwise to the first stop on the filler neck. When the pressure has been released, remove the pressure relief cap

Did you remove/release pressure when draining the coolant? If not, that may be why you are not getting enough coolant out.

Flushing the system, according to the FSM, requires draining the coolant, removing the radiator, etc

QuoteNOTE: To remove rust, sludge and other foreign material from the cooling system, use cooling system flush that is safe for use with aluminum radiators. For additional information, refer to Specifications. This cleaning restores cooling system efficiency and helps prevent overheating. A pulsating or reversed direction of flushing water will loosen sediment more quickly than a steady flow in the normal coolant flow direction. In severe cases where cleaning solvents will not clean the cooling system efficiently, it will be necessary to use the pressure flushing method using cooling system flusher. Dispose of old coolant and flushing water contaminated with antifreeze and cleaning chemicals in accordance with local, state or federal laws.

Add Premium Cooling System Flush to the cooling system and follow the directions on the package.
Drain the cooling system. For additional information, refer to Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding in this section.
Remove the radiator. For additional information, refer to Radiator — 2.0L GTDI , Radiator — 3.5L Ti-VCT, 3.7L Ti-VCT or Radiator — 3.5L GTDI in this section.
NOTICE: Radiator internal pressure must not exceed 138 kPa (20 psi). Damage to the radiator can result.

Backflush the radiator with the radiator in an upside-down position with a high-pressure hose in the lower hose location and backflush.
Remove the thermostat. For additional information, refer to Thermostat Housing — 2.0L GTDI , Thermostat — 3.5L Ti-VCT, 3.7L Ti-VCT or Thermostat — 3.5L GTDI in this section.
Backflush the engine. Position the high-pressure water hose into the engine through the upper radiator hose and backflush the engine.
Install the thermostat. For additional information, refer to Thermostat Housing — 2.0L GTDI , Thermostat — 3.5L Ti-VCT, 3.7L Ti-VCT or Thermostat — 3.5L GTDI in this section.
Install the radiator. For additional information, refer to Radiator — 2.0L GTDI , Radiator — 3.5L Ti-VCT, 3.7L Ti-VCT or Radiator — 3.5L GTDI in this section.
Fill the cooling system. For additional information, refer to Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding in this section.

Fozzforded · November 21, 2016, 11:26:36 PM

the saga continues..

I just drained it for the 3rd time and I got more fluid but only a little more. Guess I either really bad at petcocking or this car should have blown up a long time a go from running on 4 liters less capacity.

I don't know what to do now that I've had the white gloves walk me to the water bowl so to speak...

I do have the car on ramps and then lifted on the front passenger about 6 inches.

Question:

Does the car need to be on level ground with the front passenger lifted to aid draining?

I read that burping is aided by the front passenger lifted so I thought maybe to drain should help too...That right?

Surely these cars can't run on only 6 liters of coolant.

getting perplexed

derfdog15 · November 22, 2016, 08:30:21 AM

Quote from: Fozzforded on November 21, 2016, 11:26:36 PM
the saga continues..

I just drained it for the 3rd time and I got more fluid but only a little more. Guess I either really bad at petcocking or this car should have blown up a long time a go from running on 4 liters less capacity.

I don't know what to do now that I've had the white gloves walk me to the water bowl so to speak...

I do have the car on ramps and then lifted on the front passenger about 6 inches.

Question:

Does the car need to be on level ground with the front passenger lifted to aid draining?

I read that burping is aided by the front passenger lifted so I thought maybe to drain should help too...That right?

Surely these cars can't run on only 6 liters of coolant.

getting perplexed

Not necessarily a definitive answer here: Cold coolant levels (ie. 4L) are not the same as hot coolant levels. As the coolant temperature rises the coolant expands, I don't know how much, and would think it isn't enough to turn 4L to 8L but that could also explain some of your conundrum. That plus the info SHOdded posted (that less than 80% is actually recoverable) and I could see you only getting ~5.5 - 6L (as 80% would be 6.4L) and I could definitely see expansion contributing .4L @ 6L recovered, or .9L at 5L recovered.

Hope that helps set you mind a little more at ease.

ZSHO · November 22, 2016, 09:19:03 AM

How many miles on your SHO? it could be that your STAT is getting stuck and might be a good time to replace the stat especially if original....Hows the heat working? Z

Fozzforded · November 23, 2016, 11:57:23 AM

Thanks for asking ZSHO.

The sho has 143k miles on it and all fluids and parts save for brakes & stuff and oil are original.

Pretty certain that the thermostat is original based on the 1st owners' maintenance practice..."If it ain't broke why fix it and if the oils not leaking.."sorta of thinking. He always ran conventional oil after dealers hands were off it which would have been around 30k on the odometer and I've put another 15k on it all with conventional. So 80% of the oil seen has been conventional and as much as I'd like to get the car leak free before testing the synthetic waters, I'm not sure that would be wise based off cautious experiences. Once I get the oil return and coolant leak around the rear turbo sorted (fingers crossed) and the car seems to be leak free, I'd like to test it with a synthetic oil change.

As for the cabin heat, it hasn't really ever been great and I would estimate that the front seat heat is running a 50% and has been under performing as long as i can remember. I guess its heated by the HVAC based on a fan noise heard but I might be confusing that with air conditioning.
After experienced the air bubbles sound while purging I can confirm that there has been air in the system for a long time as well and the gurgling of air moving after 5-10 seconds of shutdown.

I'll definitely be purchasing a lisle or similar funnel to increase my odds of an air free operation especially if it makes my seat heat stronger.

Much appreciate everyones help and patience.

I apologize for mixing threads.

ZSHO · November 23, 2016, 12:36:47 PM

I think you mentioned above that you hear gurgling and might want to add some more coolant preferably a hair above the top line on the coolant reservoir and see if that helps any and hopefully its not the heater core and Welcome aboard. Z

SHOdded · November 23, 2016, 02:22:35 PM

Coolant and oil leaks at the rear turbo? It's a PITA to do anything in that area, and fingers crossed, the turbo is in great shape. I would take off the turbo piping and inspect the turbo for coking and signs of physical damage. Same for the front, even though it seems to be working ok currently (?).

Definitely try Z's suggestion of topping up the coolant to just beyond the FULL line and watching it over a few days. Run the SHO enough to get the coolant circulating, a 30 minute drive between each check should do it. If the coolant level does not go down, it is unlikely that there are air pockets. As long as the engine temp behaves normally, you should be OK.

Seat heat IIRC is provided by a thermoelectric aka Peltier device, and has nothing to do with engine coolant based heat. It is kind of subjective how much heat the device produces, but quite a few have said that the MAX setting would produce a "burn" level of heat on the hind quarters. If the seat barely gets warm on MAX, check the fuses, and if they are OK, very likely the heating element needs to be replaced.