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K&N vs OEM air filter testing

Started by FoMoCoSHO, August 29, 2016, 01:03:46 AM

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slurppie

I found an article where they used Green filters on the EB for the Daytona testing/race. Granted they probably tore the engine down after the checkered flag but i hope there was some good reason they chose that filter (other than Green offering $$$ for Ford to use them).

sent from my speak n' spell using tin cans and string

2013 w/PP
Synthetic blinker fluid
Ceramic muffler bearings

paokara777

According to this, Green filters flow better than K&Ns ?

Did they sabotage this test xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY7fSPvI8bY
Daily Drive:
2010 Ford Taurus SHO, AJP 3BAR 93, K&N drop in
Weekend Cruiser:
1968 Ford Mustang Coupe 289 C Code
4Bl Carb, HiPo Cam, Headers and Exhaust

slurppie

#17
K&N and Green comparison,

Not sure why my images are reversed but the Green filter is the thicker one in the middle picture.

sent from my speak n' spell using tin cans and string
2013 w/PP
Synthetic blinker fluid
Ceramic muffler bearings

SHOdded

They appear to have a very similar number of pleats.  Thickness is about 25% more for the Green?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

slurppie

Sounds about right. I can measure tomorrow if need be. I think the K&N has more pleats per inch where as the Green has larger pleats so its probably a wash on total surface area.

sent from my speak n' spell using tin cans and string

2013 w/PP
Synthetic blinker fluid
Ceramic muffler bearings

FoMoCoSHO

http://www.greenfilterusa.com/features-and-benefits.php

Deep pleats in the double-layered cotton create a 10-15% increase in filtration surface. This increase allows a greater volume of air to move more freely into your engine cylinders while maintaining superior filtration. Our specially designed cotton filter traps particles as small as 5 microns."

Besides the 5 micron claim I really don't see much info about the filters most important job, filtration.

I don't understand the clams of higher flow with better fuel economy. If I have more air at any given throttle position the ECM is going to add fuel to hit my AFR target. Right? Or am I missing something?

FoMoCoSHO

r2c performance...still reading about their tech but this is looking like a possible option. If it filters as well as they claim this would pair well with an Mdesign intake. I wonder if they will sell it with a no filter option?

http://www.r2cperformance.com/black-hex-series-conical-filters.aspx

http://www.r2cperformance.com/technology/r2c_filter_technology.aspx

Another very promising option would be the Donaldson Powercore but that would require a custom mounting solution.

http://www.donaldsonoemfiltration.com/library/files/documents/pdfs/059806.pdf

paokara777

"f I have more air at any given throttle position the ECM is going to add fuel to hit my AFR target. Right? Or am I missing something?"

I think you're right to a certain extent, i think the school of thought is, more air = more power, which means you need less throttle to get the same cruising speed which lowers MPG.

My cousin, who builds old carb chev engines once told me - Gasoline doesn't make the power, the AIR does.


Having said that, you are correct, wouldn't more air mean the ECM would need to adjust to add more fuel? So we are back at square 1 with power / economy
Daily Drive:
2010 Ford Taurus SHO, AJP 3BAR 93, K&N drop in
Weekend Cruiser:
1968 Ford Mustang Coupe 289 C Code
4Bl Carb, HiPo Cam, Headers and Exhaust

SHOdded

Fuel economy would be affected by trans gear ratios and engine speeds required to achieve any given power level, I'd think.  The PCM does need to understand the airflow range it can expect to enter the system though, to be able to cope with the fueling needs.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

slurppie

Hiflow, hi filtration blah blah blah. Found a compromise, just need someone to fab an airbox.


sent from my speak n' spell using tin cans and string

2013 w/PP
Synthetic blinker fluid
Ceramic muffler bearings

AnotherGreenFusion

'15 Fusion SE 2.0 AWD
CP-E Cold Side, Hot Side, αIntake, QKspl DP & RMM | Boomba Can | Cordova TB | Synapse Gen III BOV | Levels FMIC | 160* T-Stat | Steeda STB, Sway | Flatout 5700 | SCT by Unleashed/LMS 93v11

PM me for AMSOil @ Cost

Gjkrisa

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 30, 2016, 10:47:15 PM
http://www.greenfilterusa.com/features-and-benefits.php

Deep pleats in the double-layered cotton create a 10-15% increase in filtration surface. This increase allows a greater volume of air to move more freely into your engine cylinders while maintaining superior filtration. Our specially designed cotton filter traps particles as small as 5 microns."

Besides the 5 micron claim I really don't see much info about the filters most important job, filtration.

I don't understand the clams of higher flow with better fuel economy. If I have more air at any given throttle position the ECM is going to add fuel to hit my AFR target. Right? Or am I missing something?
Engine load will be lower getting better gas mileage

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

2016 Taurus SHO pp Shadow Black
diy emblems,jms boost max, FORscan modder

Gjkrisa

Quote from: AnotherGreenFusion on August 31, 2016, 06:26:00 PM
Here you go 1000CFM rated


http://hydrobuilder.com/intake-filter-10-x-16-1000-cfm.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=701285&gclid=Cj0KEQjwgJq-BRCFqcLW8_DU9agBEiQAz8KohzdvFOf6CE1I08oIr4QdL3_6UMFf1L0AQ0N_2NseSHoaAh8C8P8HAQ


Just need to look toward industrial applications and then build a massive hood scoop.
Sounds great to me
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 30, 2016, 11:00:02 PM
r2c performance...still reading about their tech but this is looking like a possible option. If it filters as well as they claim this would pair well with an Mdesign intake. I wonder if they will sell it with a no filter option?

http://www.r2cperformance.com/black-hex-series-conical-filters.aspx

http://www.r2cperformance.com/technology/r2c_filter_technology.aspx

Another very promising option would be the Donaldson Powercore but that would require a custom mounting solution.

http://www.donaldsonoemfiltration.com/library/files/documents/pdfs/059806.pdf


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

2016 Taurus SHO pp Shadow Black
diy emblems,jms boost max, FORscan modder

metroplex

The OP's link is from the Arlen Spicer test, which I believe was done in 2004 or earlier. The Amsoil used in that test no longer exists in that configuration and has been improved almost a decade ago IIRC... It's still a good read.

The K&N looks to have 40 pleats, while the Green has 35 pleats if I counted correctly. But the Green filter looks like someone who was drunk put it together. The pleats are all misaligned with splotches of polyurethane on some of the pleats, and I can see some mesh being exposed as well. I'm not saying K&N is always great, I've had to return a K&N because there was a hole in the polyurethane that would allow dirt to bypass the cotton.

If you want to see a really thick aftermarket filter, look at the AEM Dry Flow. They make one for the Duratec/SHO. I bought one for my GM LNF stock airbox but it was so thick to the point it was more restrictive than the factory filter (which is unique in its design) because it was so thick and extended too low in the box.

How well does the K&N seal in the stock SHO airbox? I've read reviews complaining about it being too thick/tight, and then some reviews say it goes in smoothly. Any long-term results with the Green filter? How good is it?
Previously: 2014 SHO
12.4 @ 110.9 mph

Current: 2017 Fusion Sport

paokara777

I recently purchased a K&N filter and it fit pretty good

Daily Drive:
2010 Ford Taurus SHO, AJP 3BAR 93, K&N drop in
Weekend Cruiser:
1968 Ford Mustang Coupe 289 C Code
4Bl Carb, HiPo Cam, Headers and Exhaust