Upgraded turbos vs water/meth

[97novi2k]

Just curious why more people don't want to upgrade the turbos over water/meth. If you can't install the meth kit on your own it's not that much cheaper I would think. I like not having to worry about a pump failing or all those extra parts etc. you could keep the boost reasonable and still see good gains.

[sholxgt]

First, the cost is not close to the same.

Meth kit ~ $800
ATP turbos ~ $2400
EPP upgrade turbos ~$1600

So, the parts themselves are not close in cost and then you have install.  After laying under my car for a few hours changing the dowpipes, I have zero interest in changing the rear turbo unless I HAVE to.  It would not be a fun job!

Meth installation on the other hand is merely time consuming.  You will spend hours running lines, mounting things, etc, but trust me...it's not the same as doing that rear turbo.

Then you have the final product.  A meth kit solves problems by giving you a lower intake air temp and cleaning the intake manifold and tops of valves.  Provided you are able to dial in the tune, you will have a happier car.

With the upgraded turbos you will have more heat, provided you up the boost, and more serious tuning needed, plus put you closer to maxing your fuel system.

I could be wrong, but it would probably be hard to find someone with upgraded turbos without a meth kit to help with heat and provide additional fueling.

Edited to add...I don't even have a meth kit on my shopping list, but do appreciate the effectiveness.  Personally, I'd like to see a front mount intercooler option more than the other two items.

[FoMoCoSHO]

IDK bout the heat with upgraded turbos since they can make more power with less boost and I think that given a fixed boost amount they spin slower as well.

I think LME charges like 3K for the everything to install meth. Some think that's expensive but I'm not so sure. Getting quality custom work is often a "get what you pay for" proposition. I'm pretty sure they stand behind their labor and the parts they use.

Meth may solve the IAT problem but causes others with fueling. On the other hand, it will keep your valves nice and clean if you worry about those sorts of things.

For my money all I need is a FMIC, some corn, and a tuner who knows how to exploit the stock fuel system. My build is 2/3rds done, lol.

[sholxgt]

I agree with all of that FoMoCo.

For my money, I'd like to see a FMIC more than anything.  If I then own this car out of warranty and need to replace the turbo's someday, I'll look at what options are available to upgrade and go from there.

[97novi2k]

I would be all over the alky Kit from Livernois but that 3k installed is about the price of turbos installed. I miss running corn lik my mustangs, agree that a better FMIC and E85 would be perfect for me. I have seen pump failures in the mustang platforms with methe and it always worried me is all.

[J-Will]

I cant imagine meth costing 3k installed.  That seems twice as high as I'd expect.

That said- the up front cost of a turbo shows in its 'set it and forget it' install.  There's no refilling tanks or possible knock if the juice runs out during a pull.  Turbos can break, but when compared to the expected pump failure meth brings with it; turbo should last longer.

meth does solve the problems mentioned though, but does bring with it a chemically corrosive nature and tuning challenges. 

FMIC that can be installed on vehicles with the drivers assist package is definitely the best option.  Right now BMR makes the only one, and its utility is unknown.

[sholxgt]

I cant imagine meth costing 3k installed.  That seems twice as high as I'd expect.

I suspect that is their "don't really want to do the job" price.  My understanding is that they are no longer recommending meth injection for the most part.

If they really charge that much for the meth kit with installation and charge roughly $100 per labor hour, they are saying that the job takes roughly 21 hours to complete.  That is hard for me to believe.

[Livernois Motorsports]

That is absolutely not true. We do install our meth kit fairly regularly. I am sorry that you are unable to conceive that the kit is that difficult to install, but to disparage us because of that is not fair. The correct way to mount, wire and install a meth injection kit it is ~20 hrs to do. The front bumper does have to come off as well as a ton of tapping and routing. So as you can see even from an EXTREMELY high level view this kit is NOT an easy install. It is important to note that the price that you receive from us will also include pricing for our tuning services as well.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Routing lines is a huge PITA esp if you want it clean and you want nothing to rub. 1/2 if the time I spent just installing a simple cold side pipe with a dual port BOV was measuring, cutting and routing new vac lines in a way that was sensible and would be fine long term. That does not count my trips to NAPA to get the correct taps and everything.

On top of that from what I have seen meth is pretty challenging to tune correctly. I would assume the LMS package includes a properly tuned car ready to drive away.

[FoMoCoSHO]

The correct way to mount, wire and install a meth injection kit it is ~20 hrs to do. The front bumper does have to come off as well as a ton of tapping and routing. So as you can see even from an EXTREMELY high level view this kit is NOT an easy install. It is important to note that the price that you receive from us will also include pricing for our tuning services as well.

This is why if ever went the meth route, I'd pony up the cash for LME. Lots of wiring, tapping, and routing on my 50K car would make me extremely nervous and there's lots to half ass or plain screw up. This is not a job for the faint of heart or shade tree mechanics IMHO. I've just had too many mods go wrong and there is no one around me that I would trust to do it. Inducing electrical gremlins, glitches, or the meth failing to work when needed would be unacceptable, period. Most shops one would take their cars to probably haven't even seen a SHO up close let alone do a job that requires extensive routing and wiring.

[sholxgt]

That is absolutely not true. We do install our meth kit fairly regularly. I am sorry that you are unable to conceive that the kit is that difficult to install, but to disparage us because of that is not fair. The correct way to mount, wire and install a meth injection kit it is ~20 hrs to do. The front bumper does have to come off as well as a ton of tapping and routing. So as you can see even from an EXTREMELY high level view this kit is NOT an easy install. It is important to note that the price that you receive from us will also include pricing for our tuning services as well.

Thank you for the clarification.

[ZSHO]

I truly must say IMHO that the crew over at LME certainly did the right thing by me and was quoted well under the above mentioned amount including DYNO and a 5 gallon methanol,plugs and 160 stat installed and on top of it all added a nice special customer discount to a  6.00% tax rate.  Z

[FoMoCoSHO]

I truly must say IMHO that the crew over at LME certainly did the right thing by me and was quoted well under the above mentioned amount including DYNO and a 5 gallon methanol,plugs and 160 stat installed and on top of it all added a nice special customer discount to a  6.00% tax rate.  Z

Z, do you have meth?

[ZSHO]

I truly must say IMHO that the crew over at LME certainly did the right thing by me and was quoted well under the above mentioned amount including DYNO and a 5 gallon methanol,plugs and 160 stat installed and on top of it all added a nice special customer discount to a  6.00% tax rate.  Z

Z, do you have meth?

No...Spoke with Jaimie a while back and he was kind enough to introduce me to Steve gorecki@livernoismotorsports.com( installer )and gave me a great estimate which i still have but unfortunately was not able to make the drive due to a family matter but hopefully later this summer when things quiet down a bit.  Z  BTW maybe -MANU is willing to take a ride with me to MI.   Z 

[97novi2k]

I would love to know what price Z gt quoted. I will say LMS hooked me up on my bundle but was told this was 800 for the kit and the install takes a few days, thought they said 20 hours and they charge over 100 per hour. I live 10 miles from them so I would for sure come here but at that price I thought maybe turbos would be a better option, kind of set it and forget it but also room to grow....