MIL Flashing, P0087, P0301, rough idle, hesitation, fuel smell.

[SHOdded]

The fuel trims are definitely not anywhere near where they should be on Bank 1 or Bank 2.  If you add the LT and ST readings for a Bank, both banks are running lean, mostly the same amount.  These readings are taken after the car has warmed up?  Any idea what the O2 readings looked like during this time?  You had installed new O2s (all 4), correct?  By any chance, were they not Motorcraft?

Not sure what the HPFP should put out when you rev in P/N, the highside pressure hardly changed when you revved to 1500 then 2500 rpm.

Bad gas should affect both banks the same.  You may want to get Forscan Lite to make sure there are no codes that Torque Pro has missed, erase them from there.

[Deebeaux]

The car was not to full operating temperature yet. I had just idled it a bit after installing the new hosts. Should I fire it up again when I get home and get her up to normal operating temp? I need to mix some 50/50 and top off the coolant a bit before I do that.

Can't believe I missed adding the LT and ST on the banks to find out it was pretty even. I always over look the obvious stuff.

I have not replaced any O2 sensors yet. Do I need to? If I do, they will be all OEM.

I'll download Forscan Lite and give that a try when I get home.

The fuel trims are definitely not anywhere near where they should be on Bank 1 or Bank 2.  If you add the LT and ST readings for a Bank, both banks are running lean, mostly the same amount.  These readings are taken after the car has warmed up?  Any idea what the O2 readings looked like during this time?  You had installed new O2s (all 4), correct?  By any chance, were they not Motorcraft?

Not sure what the HPFP should put out when you rev in P/N, the highside pressure hardly changed when you revved to 1500 then 2500 rpm.

Bad gas should affect both banks the same.  You may want to get Forscan Lite to make sure there are no codes that Torque Pro has missed, erase them from there.

[SHOdded]

Fuel trims are expected to be higher when first started, as the engine will use the last known LTs to run until the STs kick in.  Really shouldn't take very long at all, as the EB engines go into closed loop VERY quickly.  I start getting STs within 30 seconds (or less) on my NA Edge, so I expect the EB to be same or better.

Definitely top off the coolant first before running the engine next time.  You won't know if there are air bubbles that need taking care of until the car is at operating temp though.  If the weather is warm in LA, shouldn't take long to get up to temp.  Then you can "burp" the system if need be.  Monitor coolant temps to see how the car is doing while it is warming up, the stock thermostat is 180F, assuming that's what's in there now.  Should stay at/under 200F when warmed up.

Don't know if the O2s need replacing.  I am thinking maybe not given the vintage of the vehicle, but you have to be ready for that.  Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

[AJP turbo]

I wouldnt worry so much with fuel pressure...at idle and cruise its fairly low...i always see about 250....the pressure follows a table based on demanded fuel flow

When desired fuel flow rises then it follows a tables that has pressure schedule

10% ltft is really high...i would look for exhaust leaks before the primary o2 sensor

The nice thing about speed density and map based fuel tuning is even if you have a boost leak or a leak at the intake manifold you shouldnt see it in fuel trims because the air flow is metered at the manifold so intake leaks dont hurt you as much

[Deebeaux]

First I'll clear the codes with Forscan Lite. Then I'll get the coolant topped off before firing it up. Even with it a little low it would cycle between about 188-203 with the ambient in the upper 90s when I got her back together. That's just idling in the driveway though and I did take up and down the street.

I'll set up a new Torque screen showing FTs and O2 data and film the startup when I do fire it up. I guess I can also run a data log for easier analysis too. I can't see the O2s being faulty because of age or mileage, but if they were damaged due to an injector spraying like mad, I can see that.

Fuel trims are expected to be higher when first started, as the engine will use the last known LTs to run until the STs kick in.  Really shouldn't take very long at all, as the EB engines go into closed loop VERY quickly.  I start getting STs within 30 seconds (or less) on my NA Edge, so I expect the EB to be same or better.

Definitely top off the coolant first before running the engine next time.  You won't know if there are air bubbles that need taking care of until the car is at operating temp though.  If the weather is warm in LA, shouldn't take long to get up to temp.  Then you can "burp" the system if need be.  Monitor coolant temps to see how the car is doing while it is warming up, the stock thermostat is 180F, assuming that's what's in there now.  Should stay at/under 200F when warmed up.

Don't know if the O2s need replacing.  I am thinking maybe not given the vintage of the vehicle, but you have to be ready for that.  Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

I'll look for exhaust leaks, but the car is bone stock and AFAIK the exhaust has never been off.

A set of cat-less down-pipes wouldn't hurt my feelings if my current cats are damaged, but we'll test and see.

I'm a huge fan of Speed Density tuning. I just switched my Toyota 86 w/turbo kit over to Speed Density from the stock system as tuning otherwise is more difficult. That engine has DI and PI, causing it to not be as plagued with some of the negative effects of pure DI. This does make tuning a little more interesting, a 4 cylinder with 8 fuel injectors, but who doesn't like a challenge? Those GT-R guys are upgrading to 12 injectors, so there's that!

I wouldnt worry so much with fuel pressure...at idle and cruise its fairly low...i always see about 250....the pressure follows a table based on demanded fuel flow

When desired fuel flow rises then it follows a tables that has pressure schedule

10% ltft is really high...i would look for exhaust leaks before the primary o2 sensor

The nice thing about speed density and map based fuel tuning is even if you have a boost leak or a leak at the intake manifold you shouldnt see it in fuel trims because the air flow is metered at the manifold so intake leaks dont hurt you as much

Thanks to both of you for the info. Hopefully I can get some more data tonight.

[Deebeaux]

Trying to build a new Torque Pro screen, but I can't find data for the front O2s. There's AFR commanded/measured, there's Lambda commanded, and I've got voltaged for O2 B1S2 and B2S2, but nothing for S1 in either bank. I've loaded the CSV that was in the "Torque PIDs...Take 2" post, but still don't see values for the wideband sensors. Am I missing something?

I'll be out in the car trying to find this data until someone replies or I get hungry.

Thanks again!

Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

[SHOdded]

I think they have pids for wideband separately, will have to check.  Do you have O2 Sensor1 WideRange Voltage?  Might be B1S1.  Sensor2 might be B2S1.  Not sure ...

[FoMoCoSHO]

Look for equivalence ratio in the standard obd pids.

IIRC it is there for both banks.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Yeah, there is 02 EQ ratio for both banks and widerange voltage as well.

[Deebeaux]

Even after doing resets in Torque Pro and Forscan Lite, my LTFT1 is still at 10.9% even before starting the car. It appears the only way to clear this is to clear adaptations using the desktop version of Forscan.

Is it necessary I reset this back to zero before data logging? I did some brief searching and it seems 50/50 whether or not resetting the adaptations is a good idea or not.

[Deebeaux]

In Torque Pro "O2 Sensor1 Equivalence Ratio" doesn't produce anything, but "O2 Sensor1 Equivalence Ratio(alternate)" does.

Does anyone know a PID for the lambda on O2 Sensor2 as the default one provides "no data" for me? I've been doing some Googling/Forum Searching with no luck, but I will continue to dig. I presume since sensor 1 has an alternate PID, perhaps sensor 2 does as well?

FoMoCoSHO, I see you had a dual lambda gauge setup in OBDLINK that looks pretty slick, but I don't have one of their adapters.

Yeah, there is 02 EQ ratio for both banks and widerange voltage as well.

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'm getting ready to head out for some logging with the new down pipes so I will take a peek and try to remember what pids I used.

[AJP turbo]

I would reset everything so you can see how all your repairs are doing to this point

[FoMoCoSHO]

Dumb question, is your car out of warranty?

[Deebeaux]

I'm charging my other laptop right now because the smaller one I use for car stuff, apparently, doesn't have Bluetooth! >

I'm hoping I can do the reset adaptations with the Forscan software in Windows.

I would reset everything so you can see how all your repairs are doing to this point