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MIL Flashing, P0087, P0301, rough idle, hesitation, fuel smell.

Started by Deebeaux, June 20, 2016, 10:36:12 AM

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SHOdded

There eill always be a big of fuel smell, should be less on DI than PFi engines tho.  Plug does look ok, and proper Gap, do guessing plugs are near new.

You can monitor the builtin pids via torque pro and add custom pids from this thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html

Check for pooling oil in intake tuning, split/loose hoses, etc.  Also clean both MAP sensors thoroughly with MAF cleaner.

I still think the FPCM and fuel injector are most likely culprits, but check the wiring and connectors to the FPCM thoroughly for damage or rust.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

93Cobra

Quote from: sholxgt on June 20, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: 93Cobra on June 20, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
A cheap and easy test is to swap in new sp534 spark plugs. I would be willing to bet you have a condensate induced misfire from buildup in the intercooler.

Are you starting a theory that condensate causes low fuel pressure and that condensate only affects cylinder #1?

What I am stating is that under boost, the condensate gets blown through and blows out spark. When that happens, you get the obvious misfire, and raw fuel in there. The fuel gets passed through exhaust track. If left unaddressed, you will melt your cats and foul O2 sensors. This happens all the time on the f150. When they get the misfires, O2 sensors and cats are the next to fail.

AJP turbo

Interesting...i log misfires everytime i log...ive never seen one.....stock plugs 18 psi of boost and factory oil seperator....im starting to think the sho is different than an f150....wait...it......is...seems the sho isnt afflicted with this condensate problem
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
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Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

93Cobra

It still is an issue.... Not at the same rate as the f150 since the intercooler location in the transverse version is much less effective than the f150. Thankfully, I no longer have any misfires and now have a fairly reliable engine. Still going to unload it once it is out of powertrain warranty.

Deebeaux

@SHOdded,

This is the lines I'm thinking on. Would you suspect the FPCM even though I'm only getting reports of misfire in one cylinder? If so, I'll start there.

I'll pickup some MAF cleaner tomorrow.

At some point I've got to start throwing parts at it. I'm inclined to start with either the FPCM or the Injector based on what we've discussed here.

In terms of Torque Pro and the PIDs for fuel pressure, should I just load up the Fuel Pressure Desired vs. Fuel Pressure Actual and see if there's a variance? There's also some injector fault PIDs, but not sure how reliable they are.

Thanks for all the help.

Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2016, 07:47:50 PM
There eill always be a big of fuel smell, should be less on DI than PFi engines tho.  Plug does look ok, and proper Gap, do guessing plugs are near new.

You can monitor the builtin pids via torque pro and add custom pids from this thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html

Check for pooling oil in intake tuning, split/loose hoses, etc.  Also clean both MAP sensors thoroughly with MAF cleaner.

I still think the FPCM and fuel injector are most likely culprits, but check the wiring and connectors to the FPCM thoroughly for damage or rust.
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

SHOdded

Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.

It's a bit of work to get at the injector, but I thought I posted the steps somewhere ...

Not sure exactly which PIDs are available in TPro for DI engines (I do not have access to one).  I am sure FoMoCo or EcoBoostSHO would know for sure.  Try the FPD and FPA and see what numbers it gives you, not sure if that pulls the LPFP or HPFP numbers.  Also Fuel Pump Duty Cycle if you see it.  Injector Fault, it may help it may not.

Also get familiar with the Motorcraft OBD Manual for 2014, it will show you the various threshholds the PCM (stock) looks at to make decisions about codes.
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: SHOdded on June 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.

It's a bit of work to get at the injector, but I thought I posted the steps somewhere ...

Not sure exactly which PIDs are available in TPro for DI engines (I do not have access to one).  I am sure FoMoCo or EcoBoostSHO would know for sure.  Try the FPD and FPA and see what numbers it gives you, not sure if that pulls the LPFP or HPFP numbers.  Also Fuel Pump Duty Cycle if you see it.  Injector Fault, it may help it may not.

Also get familiar with the Motorcraft OBD Manual for 2014, it will show you the various threshholds the PCM (stock) looks at to make decisions about codes.
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf
Off the top of my head...

Desired HPFP pressure
Actual Fuel Rail Pressure
HPFP rail pressure sensor voltage
LPFP Pressure
LPFP duty cycle
LPFP sensor voltage

I think the only way to see injector info is DMRs which Torque (and sct) do not support, anything listed in torque doesn't work, at least for me.

Deebeaux

I'm going to check this when I get home from work. Is this unit located under the rear seats? Accessible from the inside? I've done a bit of search and Googling and I can't find a definitive answer, except it's location on a F-150. The diagrams on Ford Parts, eBay, and Tasca aren't brilliant.

I've ordered a few parts and have them in route. If I don't need them, at least I've got spares of things that commonly fail. I'm well under the cost of a trip to the dealer, so as long as it doesn't turn out to be something like a cracked piston, I'm in good shape. LOL.

Thanks!

Quote from: SHOdded on June 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

Deebeaux

Found the FPCM, connector looked good and clean, reseated it, still have same issue. I've got an FPCM, an LPFP, injector, and fuel rail o-ring set on the way. All together the parts cost less than a trip to the dealer, even after I throw a set of plugs and an oil change at it. Even if they're not all broke I'll have good parts on hand in the event of a future failure.

While playing around with Torque Pro this afternoon monitoring the items suggested, the car did start to puff out some significant white smoke (but it died down). I was initially very concerned as the symptoms initially onset as soon as I throttled up to pass someone on the highway, but the smoke smells like pure fuel and after some quick searching on the forums, it appears that's fairly indicative of an injector. Racingmason23, Tomc612, and FO SHO all had the exact same issue it seems. Here's to hoping it's a simple repair.

Thanks everyone for the help, I'll post up once the parts arrive and I can mess with it. I'll probably swap the FPCM first and see where that takes me, but I think injector is second on my list and my likely culprit.

Here's a quick video of Torque Pro with the car idling while misfiring today, the smoke died down almost completely by the time I took this.

I think the best course of action is to stop screwing with it before I damage something and wait for my bits to arrive. Hopefully in time for the weekend.

Again, thanks for all the help from everyone. Definitely makes this less stressful.
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

FoMoCoSHO

If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.

Deebeaux

I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: Deebeaux on June 21, 2016, 11:31:42 PM
I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.
Both please.

You can never have too much data....

Deebeaux

My kinda answer! I've got a new screen setup in my Torque Pro phone with all the data, I'll try to give it a go in the morning, if not I'll definitely do it at lunch time and post another video. Thanks!

Is there a preferred diag tool besides Torque Pro? I've got manufacturer specific for the other cars (Techstream for the Toyota, VAG-COM for the VW) and wouldn't mind picking up something for the Ford if there's something out there.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Deebeaux on June 21, 2016, 11:31:42 PM
I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.
Both please.

You can never have too much data....
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

Deebeaux

The last couple days have been crazy, just getting around to posting the requested videos.

This video was taken after 24hrs of sitting, cold start, and I let it idle until I heard some noises in the back. Turns out it was just some tools I Had on the back seat from removing the FPCM and checking that slid off. Was just a metal on metal noise so I shut things down instantly. Haha.

I took this video right after the restart, but my camera locked up in the middle of it. Not really sure if it's useful or not.

...and for whatever reason, I took a third video, while the car was still idling from the 2nd video and let it run a bit.

I've got an injector, o-ring kit, FPCM, and LPFP on the way. Hopefully one or all of those fixes it. Unless it's something terrible and I need a bottom end. :/

Thanks!
2020 Tesla Model S Performance FSD
[SOLD!] 2014 Tuxedo nonPP | 401A, driver assist, nav, multi-contoured seat | AEM drop-in, Unleashed 3bar 93 tune

FoMoCoSHO

Looks like it was pulling lots of fuel and I assume when the cel came on it went to a limp home map which is why you had no trim data.