track prep

AJP turbo · April 27, 2016, 12:20:30 PM

Hey scoles, it does't look bad but a couple weird things....Your wastegate duty seems a little high for the boost you are running..Maybe not having downpipes makes it so you need more wastegate to hit the higher boost levels due to back pressure....At your boost levels I usually see 60's-70's for mine

Wish you would've logged STFT's...Those should be essential all the time so you see what's going on with fuel system. You have a pretty good boost spike up to about 240 kpa after an upshift. You went lean for a instant at .90 lambda. That's not good but it didn't last long and didn't knock so it was fine but strange. The fuel pressure dipped, which is expected but usually doesn't result in lean lambda...That's usually when injector duty cycle will increase because of the low pressure and stft's will spike, but we can't see it so....And you are supplementing with meth so usually you won't see the fuel pressure dips. Even though it dipped you still had 1300 psi which isn't terrible...Below 1000 is dangerous I think...I've had 700 psi on mine and didn't go lean but it's not safe....1000 is my self imposed cutoff

Your desired TIP(boost) is all over the place....I don't get that because I've seen other Torrie logs where the desired tip is flat and consistent throughout a 4 gear pull. Your's is high then tapers at redline. Maybe he has his reasons..Usually it likes a little more boost in midrange than redline so.....

Knock sensor is good and you could probably tolerate more spark but you are safe so not a bad place to be

Across the board you are at slightly more boost than me with about the same spark. If I had to guess I don't see why that wouldn't be a mid 12 car....Also you could log misfire counts....See how the plugs are doing....Your afr's aren't too smooth...I've seen that with meth....One fuel system trying to compensate for the other and both using different controllers...You were on the rich side just before that upshift when you went lean....so maybe the stock fuel system was dialing back fuel because you were at .75 lambda then your boost spiked at the shift and it couldn't add fuel fast enough and you went lean....if in the process of pulling fuel then a boost spike hits its hard for the system to react quickly....But stfs's would tell you something.

scoles92 · April 27, 2016, 02:20:35 PM

Thank you very much for checking that out for me. I guess I should try to log with a laptop and get a full log with all the PID's Torrie originally wanted over to him.

Did you happen to notice anything on the older log that would have slowed me down VS the newer log. Still hoping it was the plugs that slowed me down.. Haha

Brucelinc · April 27, 2016, 02:52:15 PM

I am basically an idiot compared to AJ regarding these things but I cannot imagine plugs gapped at .040 vs .030 making a huge difference unless you were getting spark blowout and that should show up as misfires.

When did you run at Brainerd? Did you check the DA? How about wind conditions? What RPM were you launchng at?

ZSHO · April 27, 2016, 03:32:42 PM

I found this directly from NGK-Site-
DO I NEED TO SET THE GAP WHEN INSTALLING A NEW SET OF PLUGS?
A: Maybe. A spark plug part number might fit hundreds of different engines from many different manufacturers. Although the NGK factory will set the gap to a preselected setting, this may not be the right gap for your particular engine. The incorrect plug gap for your engine can contribute to a high rate of misfires, loss of power, plug fouling, poor fuel economy and accelerated plug wear. It is always best to check the gap against the manufacturer's specifications. If adjusting the gap on fine wire or precious metal plugs such as platinum or iridium, be very careful not to apply any pressure or prying force to the fine wire center electrode or insulator as they can be damaged. The gap should be adjusted by only moving the ground electrode.

Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004" for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005". So from 0.040 down to 0.030 i think should make a difference IMO. Z

Brucelinc · April 27, 2016, 03:58:11 PM

Oh, I think it would make a difference - especially considering the high boost that Torrie uses. I am sure that is why he often recommends .028. It is why I gapped mine at .030. However, wouldn't too wide a gap cause spark blowout and be noticeable - misfires under high boost or high RPM? It just seems like one would feel that but maybe not...

SHOdded · April 27, 2016, 05:40:36 PM

The PCM is continuously monitoring performance, so if there are misfires for example, it has tools available to it via the tune to scale back as needed. So unless there is an extreme situation, probably feel little to nothing, except possibly you are not getting the max performance that you should with correctly gapped plugs.

Brucelinc · April 27, 2016, 06:34:18 PM

He has regapped them to .030 so we will see how it runs next week in Brainerd. If everything else is up to par, he should see low 12s with a fully maximized Torrie tune and meth.

scoles92 · April 27, 2016, 08:01:30 PM

That's what we're hoping for!

AJP turbo · April 28, 2016, 03:55:21 AM

Scoles, Just looked at your first log...Actually didn't look bad...Your AFR's were smoother with no lean spikes. And your desired tip was completely flat unlike your current log. You were holding higher boost with lower wastegate duty cycle than your newest log which is strange...If I didn't know better I'd say the first log was your most current because I think it looks better.

Your car must not be real tolerant of spark....Because your timing is really retarded for the load you are at and you have a little knock retard going on...Nothing too bad, less than 3 degrees but for how low your spark is I wouldn't expect to see any. Especially with meth. It should really suppress knock. You are running about the same spark I am without meth. So I don't see how that's possible.

Notice how your stft's are less than 1.00. It's pulling fuel because of the extra fuel from the meth...The normal fuel curve from the ECU is too much with the addition of meth...So the ECU is dialing fuel back because it doesn't need as much to hit desired lambda...I haven't seen tuners change the fuel curve, they just let the 02 sensors handle it.

Looking at the new one again....You are actually running a little more spark with no knock on the new tune...So newer tune should be a little more peppy it just doesn't look as pretty in the log. I wouldn't like that .90 AFR spike in the new log though..I'd log more and keep an eye on that. You were at 20 psi when it went lean....20 psi and 12.6 air fuel ratio is kinda scary, I'd want to know why and if it continues.

scoles92 · April 28, 2016, 10:24:46 AM

thanks for looking at that for me. ill do another log here soon to send to Torrie and post it in here as well. i'm clearly not getting that consistent of data because both the logs i put up were the same tune just pre and post gaping the plugs.

Brucelinc · April 28, 2016, 10:38:27 AM

Quote from: scoles92 on April 28, 2016, 10:24:46 AM
thanks for looking at that for me. ill do another log here soon to send to Torrie and post it in here as well. i'm clearly not getting that consistent of data because both the logs i put up were the same tune just pre and post gaping the plugs.

Dang! If you keep tweaking that thing, you could be in the 11s! I guess I better get used to looking at SHO tail lights!

I should have AJ analyze my tune....

Brucelinc · April 28, 2016, 11:52:22 AM

I will be very interested to see if the regapped plugs take him from the low 13s to the mid to low 12s.

On mine, the plug gap difference was negligible but I don't run anywhere close to the boost levels that Torrie tunes do and I have only used 93 and no meth.

AJP turbo · April 28, 2016, 12:02:12 PM

Quote from: Brucelinc on April 28, 2016, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: scoles92 on April 28, 2016, 10:24:46 AM
thanks for looking at that for me. ill do another log here soon to send to Torrie and post it in here as well. i'm clearly not getting that consistent of data because both the logs i put up were the same tune just pre and post gaping the plugs.

Dang! If you keep tweaking that thing, you could be in the 11s! I guess I better get used to looking at SHO tail lights!

I should have AJ analyze my tune....

Hell yeah bruce, if you could throw a log up I'd look at it for sure...I just realize though that you have LMS so unless you know someone with an SCT device I don't know how I could...Would love to look at an LMS log but nobody has access or to an SCT device and or just doesn't want to.....As most of you can probably see by now I just like looking at the logs it's not about exposing anything lol..

And Scoles I'm initially surprised to hear you say they were the same tune but now that I think of it, it makes a little more sense....Perhaps your plugs were causing better combustion and helping with knock retard.....The ECU is really smart, we all know that. But recently I've found out when I started advancing spark on mine that my desired TIP was being reduced....Basically since the spark was adding power, it takes less boost/airflow to produce the same power level...And the way it works with this car is we are basically commanding a certain torque level and not really boost....It's just commanding whatever boost it needs to hit the power level you are asking for.

So maybe with the more aggressive spark allowed in the tune with the regapped plugs your required boost level was less to hit the power.....Hard to say....I can't see the tune so it can be really hard to say what's going on

scoles92 · May 04, 2016, 11:13:00 PM

well i ran the car tonight, did 4 passes and averaged around 13.2

im starting to think the problem is the meth kit. or the controller for the meth kit more specifically. i started watching it during my runs and noticed that it wasn't giving me any meth till the end of my run and sometimes not at all.

i have it set up to start giving meth at 10 psi of boost and to go full on at 12. theres no way i wasn't at 12 psi till the end of my run....

on the way home i ran into a couple of mustangs at a stoplight. so naturally i went wot, the red light on the controller came on to let me know it's pumping meth and the car pulled so hard it hurt my neck. after that i could get it up 17 psi and the red light wouldn't come on..

when i first got the kit i was having issues with the meth not turning off after i did a wot run. i contacted snow performance and they said id have to send the controller in for testing but after that it seemed to start working and since the controller is routed into my dash i didn't really want to dig into it if i didn't have to. looks like ill be contacting them again..

attached is a log of my first run. also my very worst run of the night. after this almost every run was 13.2 with my best of my night being a 13.15

AJP turbo · May 04, 2016, 11:29:21 PM

Damn scoles.....You need better PID's when you log.....Maybe you aren't getting enough meth....I can't see your stft's

Your afr's get lean spikes, your IAT's are pretty hot, have a good bit of knock retard and fuel pressure is dipping...All lean toward not enough or inconsistent meth perhaps....All the other people with meth are running stupid rich.

ALso your spark is really retarded but that's most likely a function of the really hot IAT's which probably are the result of not enough meth