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Author Topic:  octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75  (Read 9165 times)

Offline staged_sho

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octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« on: November 18, 2015, 10:10:56 AM »
Filled up with Shell 93 with ACES IV two nights ago.  Through 140 or so miles of driving, octane ratio gauge stayed at -1.0.

Drive to work this morning saw the gauge read -.75 which would indicate a lower octane reading.

Anyone else experience this?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 10:18:12 AM by staged_sho »
Current:  2016 Charger RT Scat Pack

Previous:  2011 SHO, LME 4+X, 3 bar, 170° TStat, Intake, Corsa

Offline SHOdded

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 01:05:18 PM »
Curious, 140 miles should be a plenty for variations to show up.  Did you put the ACES in first, then the 93?  Same station you use regularly?  Could be water separation, but shouldn't be with ACES in there.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline glock-coma

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 01:13:01 PM »
I had a similar experience with archoil. Went from -1.0 to -.6. It did eventuality go back to -1.0 but it took a couple days.
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Offline staged_sho

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 01:17:35 PM »
ACES went in first....not my usual shell.  Decided to run straight gas without any E85 added for this tankful with the ACES IV.

I've went through a few fillups ACES IV in the past and I have seen octane ratio readings go from -1.0 to -.39.
Current:  2016 Charger RT Scat Pack

Previous:  2011 SHO, LME 4+X, 3 bar, 170° TStat, Intake, Corsa

Offline SHOdded

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 01:23:47 PM »
Could be it is cleaning out the gunk in the fuel system, more so needed with the winter fuel upon us.  Are you monitoring KR?
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline staged_sho

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 02:47:22 PM »
Yes, monitoring KR.  Part throttle to pass along the freeway I've seen it read as high as 5.8.  With the pump 93/E85 blend I would never see readings anywhere close to that value.  It is almost always showing negative values.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 02:49:20 PM by staged_sho »
Current:  2016 Charger RT Scat Pack

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Offline ecoboostsho

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 03:43:15 PM »
Anything over 4 degrees of KR will trigger a LOR adjustment in my experience.  Obviously winter gas is out and about so it could be that without E85 to help combat knock...not sure about the additive.
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Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 03:43:41 PM »
You are running the hottest LME tune, correct?

Offline staged_sho

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 04:09:14 PM »
Yes FoMoCoSHO, running the 4+X.

Wasn't aware 4+ deg of knock would affect LOR.

I've dealt with knock like this before on straight pump 93 but the LOR gauge always at -1.00.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 04:32:11 PM by staged_sho »
Current:  2016 Charger RT Scat Pack

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Offline Scott4957

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 04:16:13 PM »
Never came across ACES before, sounds like some amazing stuff. I don't see prices on their webpage but it appears not to take much to treat a tank of gas. Anyone have a link to a thread with more info?

NM found the post
2013 Lincoln MKS EcoBoost, AJP Tuned

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 06:05:53 PM »
Yes FoMoCoSHO, running the 4+X.

Wasn't aware 4+ deg of knock would affect LOR.

I've dealt with knock like this before on straight pump 93 but the LOR gauge always at -1.00.
I've never seen one Kr event change OAR. In fact, my OAR has never changed and I've had some large KR events in both cars. It is my understanding that multiple events have to occur before that happens. If it doesn't start to go back up I can only conclude that you don't have the octane your tune needs. Maybe LME will chime in.....Id like to get their take on OAR and how it relates to your specific tune.

Offline ecoboostsho

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 06:17:51 PM »
I agree with you...there is definitely a time component involved but if I get sustained KR above 4 the LOR almost always gets less negative...that said I've done experiments with 87 and 89  octane and you would be surprised how fast it can react.
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Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 06:54:37 PM »
I am glad someone else mentioned this issue.

From my experience, the KR only spikes during deceleration. And only for a split second. Again just a spike but always returns to 1.5 then goes back to negative numbers. The LOR is always between -.7 and  -1.0.

I only have 91 octane fuel available but with the ACES I am now running the 93 4+× tune on my car.

Spoke to Brian he seems to think from my discussion with him the spike maybe is simply the electronics is faster than the mechanical to correct.

Also seems the ACES in the fuel causes those parameters to read weird anyway. My car is truly a hot rod with NO performance issues. But my thought is the formulation just causing the ecm to not read it (octane) correctly, thus showing a false positive on knock or KR. Remember that KR is listening for sound frequencies. If the tune causing car ro perform different from oem calibrations, then mayybe a false positive. If your KR is staying above the 4 or 5 mark for more than a second, you may have bad gas. What I do now while on winter gas is increase my ratio to 1 Oz per 5 gallons. The KR still spikes to 5 but only while decelerating.
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Offline CroR1

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 07:07:09 PM »
This is off subject, but I am curious to how normal my KR readings are, and what you guys think? Stock on 93, and using aeroforce gauges, I see spikes of KR sometimes around -4.75, but mostly low up to -2. and most of the time it does sit at 0 at idle and while driving. I have not tried the readings with 87, 89, or 91.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 07:27:18 PM by CroR1 »

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: octane ratio going from -1.0 to -.75
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 08:38:46 PM »
Just remember KR isn't actual knock.

With ACES and 20% E85 I usually only see -.8 of KR, it typically shows up on lift decel events.

The last log had some actual knock(1.25-1.75), I probably shouldn't have logged because the car hadn't acted right since the d-ship trip. Fuel trims were wonky even though the exact same fuel was in the car. Shifting didn't feel right. I was surprised when I saw the knock because up to this point, there was zero for entire WOT pulls including 4 at the track with some pretty high AFRs on one run. When i mentioned it to AJP he reminded me about KAM reset. Today the car is back to normal, trims are dialed in and max KR of -.8 It took 5 days for the car to right itself after the VCT solenoid replacement.

I do get spikes on WOT downshifts. I'm pretty sure it's tranny noise and since Torrie made an adjustment it's much better, but not gone.

DX- Are you talking about during the actual lift event or are you seeing active KR as the car slows?


 

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