• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

2014 SHO livernois 3 bar tune/tstat/downpipes

Started by Kyle04, November 10, 2015, 08:38:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Kyle04

Quote from: ajpturbo on November 11, 2015, 11:00:56 AM
So thats a yes?...i rented the dyno. I was going to post some stuff but havent really had time..thats awsome that that u went there becuase i was curious of a couple of my runs...but your pulls look clean and consistent

Ive known denis at prl he's a good dude

Yep, Dennis is who i talked to. Once he asked what i had and i told him, he asked if i knew you and if you referred me. Unfortunately i don't know anyone else with a SHO and that I found PRL just by searching around, and i have seen their GTR run at the track a few times.

Do you know if 3rd gear what the right gear to do the pulls in, its a non PP by the way. Also was there a way to get it to not downshift when in third at WOT or have you changed something that i wouldn't be able to do.
2014 Ford Taurus SHO non PP - LMS 3 Bar Tune, 160 Thermostat, LMS Catted Downpipes.

SHOdded

3rd gear is what most people use, tho I believe 4th is actually 1:1 for the SHO.  I found this post, which if true, means that on the Dynojet, the gear that is 1:1 should be used for measurements.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?s=b43e47171dcc674f947a8746f9146c12&p=21629411&postcount=3

Quotethe reason for the dyno in the 1:1 gear ratio is due to the Dynojet. Dynojet mathematically creates a horsepower number based on mass (which is the known weight of the rollers) and accleration (how fast the car is accelerating the known weight).

F=ma

From force (F), we can calculate horsepower.

Dyno the car in 2nd gear, and acceleration (a) goes way up, causing force (F) to go way up.

So by dynoing the car in the gear closest to the 1:1 gear ratio, we eliminate any acceleration advantage or disadvantage caused by the transmission, which gives us unskewed whp numbers (even though Dynojet has a fudge factor in there which makes them skewed anyways and read high).

As for other dynos out there (i.e. Mustang and Dyno Dynamics) - they use a load cell to measure roll force (the amount of force the tire is placing on the roller). Based on roll force and the radius arm going to the load cell, we get roll torque. Based on roll torque and roll speed, we can get vehicle horsepower. Vehicle horsepower and vehicle RPM gives vehicle torque. It doesn't matter what gear you run in on load cell style dynos as they are measuring force, not acceleration. Force does not change from gear to gear.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Vortech347

Matt H.
2013 SHO Performance Pack, Daily, AJPTurbo tuned
2003 SVT Cobra 497rwhp/491rwtq, Self tuned, Cruiser
1990 Mustang GT 570rwhp/530twtq, Self tuned, Open Track
2017 F150 XLT 5.0

SHOdded

#18
So 5th is the right gear to be in?  This is apparently due to variable transmission losses in each gear in an automatic.  Apparently not a factor in manual transmissions.

From caranddriver:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2010-ford-taurus-sho2010-ford-taurus-sho-ecoboost.pdf
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Vortech347

Quote from: SHOdded on November 11, 2015, 11:34:46 AM
So 5th is the right gear to be in?  This is apparently due to variable transmission losses in each gear in an automatic.  Apparently not a factor in manual transmissions.

From caranddriver:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2010-ford-taurus-sho2010-ford-taurus-sho-ecoboost.pdf

1:1 is primarily used because it not only yields the least amount of drive train loss but also gives the best sampling/load levels.

I love watching 96-98 4.6 GT's on the dyno.  Their pulls took an eternity with all their 170rwhp might.  haha
Matt H.
2013 SHO Performance Pack, Daily, AJPTurbo tuned
2003 SVT Cobra 497rwhp/491rwtq, Self tuned, Cruiser
1990 Mustang GT 570rwhp/530twtq, Self tuned, Open Track
2017 F150 XLT 5.0

AJP turbo

It may depend on the dyno I dunno.....The particular model dynojet that I and Kyle were on was able to have the rollers linked mechanically. Apparently the belt and shaft are really heavy. I tried a run in 4th but ended up doing my runs in 3rd gear. I was not comfortable with the length of time the 4th gear pull took and 5th would've been out of the question.

My 4th gear pull took 17 seconds of WOT and my 3rd gear pull took 10 seconds..I think when you mechanically link the rollers then essentially one roller is dead weight in addition to the belt.

I've done pulls in 5th gear in my civic and mustang with less power and ripped through it in 5th gear...In the SHO on this dyno I couldn't believe how slow it pulled through the gear. Like I was towing something and doing WOT pulls.
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

AJP turbo

#21
Kyle, I have no idea what the software looks like for LMS but since they claim they can do things that other software can't do I'm guessing this will be easy for them...I don't mind helping the community even though this is proprietary information I'm about to give out that I've given a few popular tuners out there. So this is an AJP special freebie.

You need to set "pedal position to command kickdown in SST mode" to 1024

It's in the trans or trans shifting section, I can't remember

That's in SCT software. You will have to ask LMS if there is any such scalar, I don't know

It's not the RPM that caused it to downshift on you....When you nail the throttle in sport mode the throttle counts go up. Stock for that scalar is set to about 500 and when you exceed that it will command a downshift....When you set it to what I said, you effectively never hit the throttle counts  to command a downshift...If you were at 2000 rpm and roll on the throttle sometimes that keeps throttle counts low enough to not downshift.

But you have to be in SST not just S mode....So select S mode then tap a paddle to get it in manual mode...That's sst mode...If you change the scalar to what I said but only put it in S mode and floor it, it will still downshift

I love having it this way because when I go manual I can floor it and really feel the low end and midrange without getting a balls to the walls redline downshift
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Kyle04

Thanks for the info, I'll have to ask LMS if they are able to do this.
2014 Ford Taurus SHO non PP - LMS 3 Bar Tune, 160 Thermostat, LMS Catted Downpipes.

Vortech347

Quote from: ajpturbo on November 11, 2015, 12:13:31 PM
It may depend on the dyno I dunno.....The particular model dynojet that I and Kyle were on was able to have the rollers linked mechanically. Apparently the belt and shaft are really heavy. I tried a run in 4th but ended up doing my runs in 3rd gear. I was not comfortable with the length of time the 4th gear pull took and 5th would've been out of the question.

My 4th gear pull took 17 seconds of WOT and my 3rd gear pull took 10 seconds..I think when you mechanically link the rollers then essentially one roller is dead weight in addition to the belt.

I've done pulls in 5th gear in my civic and mustang with less power and ripped through it in 5th gear...In the SHO on this dyno I couldn't believe how slow it pulled through the gear. Like I was towing something and doing WOT pulls.

SHO's have a really tall final drive and huge overall tire size. Matched up with the AWD turning two drums I can see that taking a bit.  As long as you get enough load/sample time that's all that matters.  Wonder what gear Torrie and LMS use for their stuff. 
Matt H.
2013 SHO Performance Pack, Daily, AJPTurbo tuned
2003 SVT Cobra 497rwhp/491rwtq, Self tuned, Cruiser
1990 Mustang GT 570rwhp/530twtq, Self tuned, Open Track
2017 F150 XLT 5.0

AJP turbo

Yeah maybe relatively tall final drive but the transmission makes up for that and the large tires. Because looking at my log I hit 90mph in 3rd gear at redline and 114mph in 4th so pretty normal...I have a PP btw

Kyle's had to seem like an eternity with his NON PP
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Kyle04

#25
Quote from: ajpturbo on November 11, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
Yeah maybe relatively tall final drive but the transmission makes up for that and the large tires. Because looking at my log I hit 90mph in 3rd gear at redline and 114mph in 4th so pretty normal...I have a PP btw

Kyle's had to seem like an eternity with his NON PP

Honestly i dont feel like it took that long but this was my first time on the dyno so didnt know what to compare it to. Also he only did 3rd gear pulls, no 4th or 5th.

Here is the 2nd pull i believe

! No longer available

I do have another pull that was much faster then that one, more like 10-12 seconds.
2014 Ford Taurus SHO non PP - LMS 3 Bar Tune, 160 Thermostat, LMS Catted Downpipes.

AJP turbo

Well I'm going to guess since you are non PP you get close to 100mph in 3rd maybe more....So I'm guessing your pull was maybe at least 12 seconds....I can tell by how slow the tach swept through 3rd that there was a tremendous load on the car....More than the car's own weight....The tach moved much slower than when driving the car

So wouldn't be comfortable doing close to 20 second WOT pulls while what seemed to be comparable to towing something..

I see videos of FWD and RWD cars do pulls that last less than 8 seconds on the dyno.
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Vortech347

Never thought of total time till you mentioned it.  Looked at the last video of dynoing my fox (1:1 4th), 1500rpm to 6200 took about 7 seconds.  Its got to be that AWD hammering the huge rollers. 
Matt H.
2013 SHO Performance Pack, Daily, AJPTurbo tuned
2003 SVT Cobra 497rwhp/491rwtq, Self tuned, Cruiser
1990 Mustang GT 570rwhp/530twtq, Self tuned, Open Track
2017 F150 XLT 5.0

AJP turbo

Kyle it looked like ur pull was just about 10 seconds and that was from 3500 to 6400 or so...thats pretty long if u ask me
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

Kyle04

What sort of problems could that cause and was there anything I could have done differently?
2014 Ford Taurus SHO non PP - LMS 3 Bar Tune, 160 Thermostat, LMS Catted Downpipes.