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Author Topic:  Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences  (Read 27403 times)

Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2015, 05:09:42 PM »
Im still trying to get a good read from my obd reader. In a nutshell, if you have Android go bluetooth, if iPhone then WiFi. I chose the WiFi option as I will be dumping my Android soon. Piece of crap in my opinion. But when the reader stay connected, all my readings are good. I think. I reloaded the 91 4plus tune so thats what this is showing.

My last readings with the 93 tune were similar. But in both occasions, the LOR/OAR number does drift a bit. I started at -.7 and within couple miles car was at -1.0 on to -1.2.

I will reload the 93 tune and recheck. In speaking with Brian about the race formula of ACES, his thoughts were I need more time for the ACES IV to become fully impactful. I may also up the ratio to 1:5 for a couple tanks with the 93 tune loaded.

Does anyone with iPad/Iphone have the Ford PID's purchased in DashCommand? Been writing them and I am having issues with their policies. Buy app for $10, then buy manufacturer specify year ($10). But you can't use that for ANY other year. So for me, I have 4 cars. Would cost me $50 total to have PID's for all cars. And if I change cars, all this is out the door and have to buy another module for year of specific vehicle. Are there any other working options for IOS?





2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2015, 06:03:40 PM »
When did that -.9 show up?

OAR shouldn't go below -1 if the formula is correct IDK what that -1.2 is about.....

Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2015, 06:58:55 PM »
This was during normal acceleration. There is thread or post elsewhere on this board about the LOR going beyond -1.0. No real plausible explanation. One could set the MAX reading to be -1 and make it all look good. I think the jury is still out on EXACTLY how to interpret the LOR/OAR.

On your recommendation I reloaded the 91 tune and am getting similar numbers vs the 93 tune. But again, my WiFi and Android obd drops connection so I can't do a data log event. Unless there is a way to do it on iPad without breaking the bank.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 07:01:07 PM by Dxlnt1 »
2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2015, 07:23:23 PM »
If you think torque is operating correctly, I would TRY the 93 tune but I would watch OAR and KR. If OAR stays at -1 and KR is good then I wouldn't be concerned at all.

I suspect you are fine with my ACES experiences so far. At the same time I would never suggest shenanigans without some sort of reliable monitoring.

I am comfortable with Cobb and Stratifieds explanation of OAR and they match up with my real world experiences. 


Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2015, 07:41:06 PM »
A commment you made about possibly not enough octane when -.7 was showing was why I reloaded 91 tune. But with 91 and 93 tunes the LOR never goes higher than -.7 but has gone to -1.0 on 93 tune and -1.2 on 91 tune. Also, I have very little info to work with on the knock sensors raw data and its use and meaning. Those numbers are all over the place so I have no clue how to interpret.

And like you, using the ACES I am NOT seeing any negative performance. No pinging, stutters, flat spots or anything. Just rock solid performance. Just with my tools I cannot scientifically quantify it reliably.

But I love the 93 tune performance over the 91. Just the fans stay on ALL the time. So I may opt for the colder 160 thermostat to help. I think the 93 tune wants everything cooler. I currently have the 170.

P.S.
I see team ACES in your signature. Any explanation? Or are you and I the early users of the ACES?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 07:43:02 PM by Dxlnt1 »
2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2015, 08:25:42 PM »
A commment you made about possibly not enough octane when -.7 was showing was why I reloaded 91 tune. But with 91 and 93 tunes the LOR never goes higher than -.7 but has gone to -1.0 on 93 tune and -1.2 on 91 tune. Also, I have very little info to work with on the knock sensors raw data and its use and meaning. Those numbers are all over the place so I have no clue how to interpret.

And like you, using the ACES I am NOT seeing any negative performance. No pinging, stutters, flat spots or anything. Just rock solid performance. Just with my tools I cannot scientifically quantify it reliably.

But I love the 93 tune performance over the 91. Just the fans stay on ALL the time. So I may opt for the colder 160 thermostat to help. I think the 93 tune wants everything cooler. I currently have the 170.

P.S.
I see team ACES in your signature. Any explanation? Or are you and I the early users of the ACES?

Well, if you are changing or adding something to the fuel, seeing a blip in OAR isn't unexpected. If it didn't move back to -1 I'd start to think my tune was a little hot for the available octane. That being said, I haven't  seen anything but -1 except 0n the 2015 when it had 87 in the tank to start.

Your 170 should be fine I think they can fix that fan issue in the tune, I feel like others have had the same issue, but that could be incorrect as well.

Yeah on the ACES, us and a couple others being the first guinea pigs.

Screenshot attached of current brew of ACES and an E20 Torrie tune no revisions....yet.

Those max#'s are from a WOT pull just into 3rd.

I'd like to seen your raw knock and KR from a WOT pull as I'm trying to figure it out. I think SHOdded pointed me in the right direction. Each gear has a different threshold but that is after the ECM analyzes and filters the raw data and adjusts based on a noise threshold to eliminate false knock. That being said for WOT numbers a lower max starting point should be better.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 08:36:51 PM by FoMoCoSHO »

Offline glock-coma

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2015, 10:21:31 PM »
fomocosho, Ltft are in the - ?

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk
2010 red candy metallic non PP 402B
AJPTURBO 2 BAR Tune Stock 14.1@100.3 / Tuned 12.83@107.7
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1997 SHO silver frost (sold)
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Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2015, 10:55:04 PM »
That was at idle.

While driving they are all hover around ZERO so the blend matches my tune nicely.

A couple of things....

My tune is for E20 so lambda in my tune is 13.51:1

Also, one of the claims is the ACES gets more work out of the same fuel so you need less fuel to hit the same AFR. When I was on a straight 93 tune, the trims also went negative so I believe the claim is valid.

Notice that bitchin FRP? So far I've seen zero FRP degradation and I think the ACES helps with fuel volume....Still hits over 2700PSI at times. Once again more work equals less fuel needed so my injectors aren't taxed and I can maintain high pressure even with the corn, at least that's my theory, lol.

 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 10:57:18 PM by FoMoCoSHO »

Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2015, 11:23:10 PM »
As soon as I dump the droid, I should be able to log better Im hoping. Unless I spring for additional bluetooth reader. Which doesn't make me to happy!

Seems like the ACES is the real deal. Once I can reliably log everything, I will be stepping down from 91 octane gas I buy to 89. That SHOULD keep me in range and save me a few bucks at the same time
2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2015, 02:58:33 AM »
Reloaded the 93 tune. This is what I am seeing. There weren't any WOT runs but pretty aggressive to about 90 mph.



So with a -4 KR wouldn't that indicate the fuel is great for the tune loaded with plenty of room for more aggression?

2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline ecoboostsho

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2015, 11:47:56 AM »
First which formula are you using for knock?  If negative numbers mean it is adding timing (the original formula) then it all depends on where you are seeing the -4...I typically only see timing added like that at light steady throttle.  While that gives you some indication  - you need to pay attention to what the KR is doing under heavy/full throttle.  It looks like you are seeing up to 3.5 degrees of knock which while not disastrous is a bit high if at heavy throttle. Personally I would be adding some Ethanol if I saw that consistently or I would run a different tune.  I also suggest you grab a copy of Forscan for Android and then set it up to actually log those same parameters.  That will tell you with much greater accuracy/resolution what your car is doing.  I love Torque for my daily gauges, but if you want to know what is really going on you should log it with something capable of recording small time increments.  If in the scan you just get a quick spike to 3.5 it is probably okay to just let the car deal with it - however if it stays or builds and the car isn't recovering from that level then you probably either need higher octane or a tune that runs lower timing/boost...Just my opinion though.
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
 Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Offline ecoboostsho

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2015, 12:02:18 PM »
The other thing that looks weird to me is that your boost "req" (required?) is calling for boost as high as 20psi?? Yet you only got around 7 or 8 lbs (hard to tell from the screen) of boost on the "actual" gauge - realizing you weren't WOT...?  Have you looked for boost leaks or loose hoses on the boost reference controller?  Just seems weird to me...Unless the required is off by normal atmospheric pressure which is around 14.5 PSI or so then it would make sense I guess.
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
 Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2015, 05:04:30 PM »
Some or a lot of the numbers I dont trust because the Android always dropping connection. So the until I get that resolved, I am only using the information as trends. Have to replace wifi scanner for bluetooth I guess
2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2015, 06:52:46 PM »
I wouldn't be concerned with blips to 3.5.

At 3.5 you are well with the ECM's ability to deal with impending knock.

If you were seeing 4-7 consistently then I would reload the 91 tune.

The ECM is always looking to advance up to the knock threshold then it will retard and start the process over. Especially not surprising because you've loaded a fresh tune.

You will never be KR free and if you are then your tune is probably leaving power on the table, at least in spots.

And then there's false knock.....I was getting a bunch of KR on wot downshifts only so I had Torrie soften them a tad and it went away. Your knock sensor is a microphone so changing things like shift pressures can induce noise into the freq range the sensor is looking for.

Personally I prefer the cyl 1 ignition advance pid. Same data but it shows finer detail and it shows advance as positive and retard as negative which seems more user friendly to my brain.

I think the KR pid was updated for that....I need to DL the updated file and clean up my pids.

EBSHO is right, there is something off with the requested boost number as LME doesn't run that high.

I would ask the folks at scantool.net to swap your pos wifi for a bluetooth free of charge.

I just want to know how you are able to drive without WOT blasts, lol....


Offline Dxlnt1

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Re: Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2015, 07:14:17 PM »
Im returning the obdlink. And ordering a wifi and bluetooth reader. And still save a couple bucks. So then I should be able to get better data.

Again, I don't really trust the desired boost or commanded AFR numbers as they take a bit to load. And when they populate if Android loses connection then its just chance as to where it lands. So again, just look at my data as trends and NOT absolute numbers yet.

I am considering dishing out the funds for DashCommand on iPhone but that may be too rich for my blood.
2011 SHO, 3 Bar AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

 

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