OEM CarPuter - Data Logging and Pi: conceptual discussion

[malfuncion]

Back in the day I had a fullblown PC (albeit microATX) in my old VW Jetta. At the time I was way ahead of the curve on streaming Pandora and Spotify to my vehicle's audio system. There's still a huge follolwing for CarPuters over at MP3Car.com and people are still doing amazing things in older non-equipped vehicles. In today's world however, this is 'old tech' but the concept is still a great idea. With our SYNC system, this could potentially open a lot of doors to us- or so I was thinking....

Real World Scenario-
We all like data logging. We all like real time monitoring. Most of us like computers. We like audio and video. Why not combine all of that in to one simple little box and pipe it to our factory dash inputs hiding in the center console? This thread will attempt to document trials and tribulations for such a build.

Real World Problems-
SYNC by default kills the A/V inputs when putting the vehicle in drive/motion. This is a nice safety feature to keep idiots from watching DVDs in motion or playing a Playstation while driving (yes, I have witnessed it first hand). This however makes it a major PITA for hackers like myself who want to see some type of input OTHER than the SYNC screen.

Real World Solutions-
I found a company call Coastal eTech who fixes this problem for you. I'm sure some of you are aware these guys exist, but heres a link for those who do not: https://www.coastaletech.com/mytouch2.htm

Essentially they have produced a module which piggy backs the factory harness and provide "spoofed" signals to the indash PC. This device allows for extra camera installs, access to RV camera while in motion, access to in-console A/V inputs while in motion and other cool little features controlled via the steering wheel BT controls.

I am assuming the box is reading some sensor from the transmission or potentially even a gyrometer to get movement (pure speculation). This is something I haven't researched too far in to and would love to discuss how our cars read movement/drive signal. I'd like to use this thread for that discussion as well as other ideas people have for this. The major problem with CET's LockPick device, you gotta pay to play. For my 2013, $350 bones to get it going. Some models are cheaper, but still that is kind of pricey. Does anyone know of a cheaper alternative? I don't have an oscillator or other analyzer so me hooking up to read the PWM (assumptions again) is not possible. I do however think someone with minor electrical know how could "spoof" a very basic function to allow video in movement for <$50 (guess what this is again: assumption).

Build Out-
RaspberryPi: $45-$90 depending on accessories you order with it. (kb/mouse combo, wifi adapter, etc)
Bluetooth Module for Pi: $5-$25 depending on what/where you buy. 
LockPick (or alternative?): $350 (link above).
ELM-327 ODB Bluetooth/USB module: $25-35ish on fleabay
2A Power Adapter for Pi or Power module: $3-$30 depending on what you do here.
HDMI->RCA adapter depending on model of Pi purchased: $5-$35

Help for Build Out (for less technical among us)-
http://www.instructables.com/id/OBD-Pi/?ALLSTEPS

Video for those who don't/won't/can't read the help article:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAwiVERLmDo

Don't want to go RasPi? Use a microATX PC and Winblows to install this:
http://www.obdautodoctor.com/ - OBD Auto Doctor.
Does similar stuff as PyODB but less customization and more "out of box" experience. This is good for non-hackers who do not know coding. This will however increase cost for software and hardware, but maybe not if you have something laying around. I've seen people re-purpose laptops with busted screens/battery/whatever for such an occasion.

What do I want to talk about-
- Alternatives to lockpick
- Alternatives to hardware/software being used
- Cheaper locations for hardware purchase
- Ideas in general about the project

I think that about covers it. Please feel free to post in here as I want to get more eyes on such a project to help the entire community. Who doesn't want in-dash gauges and monitoring/data logging?

And yes I know about Torque, but that requires an additional screen (currently running it myself). I want a cleaner option that appears to be OEM

[SHO-Time]

I had a Coasteltech Lockpick in my 2008 SRT4 Caliber with the Dodge Mygig. It worked flawlessly. It's basically a module the size of garage door opener that you connect to the ports on the back of your head unit. It has a series of dip switches that you need to set depending on the feature of the head unit.

My wife and I would watch movies on it when we'd go on car trips. It worked well. It's been a while since I've owned that car, so I can't speak to technical on it.   

[FoMoCoSHO]

I've thought long and hard about this but for $350, I better get higher quality inputs as well.

Composite isn't worth my time to plug anything into.

And then there's the issue of converting anything digital to composite.

[mts7471]

Now if you could get better resolution and use the screen to display engine info from one of those odbii Bluetooth readers to a raspberry pi then we'd be set for something really useful

[J-Will]

You never stated your problem statement.  What is the main purpose of doing this?  Getting Pandora and Spotify to work over Sync is easy.  You mentioned data logging, but there are cheaper, less invasive methods of doing this too. 

I've mentioned it on these boards before, but Sync should be more hackable than people make it out to be.  Its a computer running windows.  I would think that it is possible to wipe it and start fresh with the full blown version (or at least the full CE version), which would give you full control over its inputs (such as USB) 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I would like to run Torque on a tiny android Box and view it on my oem screen. Tablet is OK, but it clutters up my dash....

[ShoBoat]

I would like to run Torque on a tiny android Box and view it on my oem screen. Tablet is OK, but it clutters up my dash....

This!!!


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[ShoBoat]

This is available for the f150, and replaces MFT. Doesn't look like they have one for the Taurus as of yet. You can monitor engine functions on it. Not to mention it looks really good. But it's pricey at $3500.00 lol.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/x009-fd2


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[wasinger3000]

Would be nice to find a way to install the sync OS on a windoes tablet to do some testing. Any way to find the software?

[J-Will]

Windows embedded is not difficult to get your hands on, however this is the base version.  Sync is modified from there.  To get your hands on the Sync version would be difficult, and probably only through Ford. 

The way I would start would be to my hands on a functioning Sync unit ($$$), and look to put full Windows Embedded on it.  This would give you full control (or at least unconstrained access) to the hardware. Then you tweak Windows Embedded (turn functions off in order to save space and improve speed. 

If Windows Embedded can be installed without a hitch, I would guess that real Windows could too.  Though that may take a HDD swap, and there is a good chance the HDD had proprietary connection to the motherboard, and is probably locked to the BIOS with firmware.

[malfuncion]

Sorry for going dark for a while, been extremely busy at work with multiple system upgrades and such going on. This will be a long post but I want to reply to everyone at once, apologies for the long read. Feel free to skip around.

I've thought long and hard about this but for $350, I better get higher quality inputs as well.

Composite isn't worth my time to plug anything into.

And then there's the issue of converting anything digital to composite.

Agreed, and definitely a concern of mine as well. Another member said he watched movies on his caliber using this tech, so I assume it isn't too bad?

You never stated your problem statement.  What is the main purpose of doing this?  Getting Pandora and Spotify to work over Sync is easy.  You mentioned data logging, but there are cheaper, less invasive methods of doing this too. 

I've mentioned it on these boards before, but Sync should be more hackable than people make it out to be.  Its a computer running windows.  I would think that it is possible to wipe it and start fresh with the full blown version (or at least the full CE version), which would give you full control over its inputs (such as USB)

Windows embedded is not difficult to get your hands on, however this is the base version.  Sync is modified from there.  To get your hands on the Sync version would be difficult, and probably only through Ford. 

The way I would start would be to my hands on a functioning Sync unit ($$$), and look to put full Windows Embedded on it.  This would give you full control (or at least unconstrained access) to the hardware. Then you tweak Windows Embedded (turn functions off in order to save space and improve speed. 

If Windows Embedded can be installed without a hitch, I would guess that real Windows could too.  Though that may take a HDD swap, and there is a good chance the HDD had proprietary connection to the motherboard, and is probably locked to the BIOS with firmware.

To answer your question about my question, I don't really have a problem as much as wanting to solve an 'non-issue' that I have and cut costs while doing it. This isn't something for everyone, but it is more of an idea I've been kicking around and I like factory look, sleepers per se. Pandora and Spotify is not really what I'm going for, but more of an "added bonus". What I am looking at is in line with an in-dash gauge and logging system. Essentially, tying in a PC (or Pi2) to the center console and using it as a monitor instead of doing an add on LCD. Cleanliness and appearance of factory is always cooler than a LCD stuck on the dash, at least to me. You would also get some added bonus items like web, apps and bluetooth sync to "internet of things" like a garage door (which I already hacked). You could then tie in something like IFTT and do automatic door opens when you arrive. The possibilities are ultimately endless when you go this route and much easier.

As for hacking the sync system, proprietary embedded systems are a P-I-T-A. I used to work with them in the medical realm and I got to say, unless you have firmware specific stuff, you are pretty much S-O-L on getting full function back. There is always a way to pull the firmware off the chipset, but that usually involves too much work and not enough payout (except for leet hacker creds and prob a post on HackaDay). Once you get the system, drivers is the next PITA to which you probably will never solve. You could attempt to write your own drivers, but if you are that beast mode I doubt you'll go windows. You'd have a better chance at dumping windows embedded all together and trying to put on something like ARCH and do some cross compiling of drivers from similar devices. Since it's unlikely you will find any specs, documentation or a 'recovery' to flash back, you have a very high potential of bricking your system not to mention losing a lot of functionality. This isn't a task beyond my skillset, but ultimately I value my time with my family over hacking a carputer. I'm just not a single guy anymore and don't have the deniro to spend on a secondary dash unit.

Your second post definitely sounds like you have more experience than I originally thought, so maybe it'd be worth you giving it a shot? I'd be more than willing to work with you on a project if you have some time to devote and an "in" to get the Ford Sync software. We can do some VM's and get to hacking minus the up font cost of hardware. Flashing it to the system can probably be done with a tuner or packing the "update" in to a  package and sideloading using USB.

I would like to run Torque on a tiny android Box and view it on my oem screen. Tablet is OK, but it clutters up my dash....

Exactly what I am thinking. Glad someone else sees the benefit of this project and can agree on the benefit to having the OEM look. I thought I was just crazy for a bit

This is available for the f150, and replaces MFT. Doesn't look like they have one for the Taurus as of yet. You can monitor engine functions on it. Not to mention it looks really good. But it's pricey at $3500.00 lol.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/x009-fd2


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Wow, that's a little rich for my blood lol. I was thinking $350 was expensive, now adding another 0 to that... OUCH! At that point I'd rather go with the new android car systems and all the add-ons to keep factory buttons on my dash and such.




I keep bouncing back and forth if this project is truly worth the time/money. I need to price out the price of going with pods/gauges versus this as well as the pro's/con's. I'll probably update the thread once I do that so everyone can see the benefits/costs associated to such an undertaking. I think ultimately I'll end up doing this and seeing what I can achieve. I'm just very anal with projects that cost this much to maximize my dollar, not to mention it's easier to get the budget committee to approve. I already have the PC side of things, however I may upgrade to a PI2 just for more processing power. The biggest cost right now is the coastaltech stuff. I wonder what their return policy is? LOL

[ShoBoat]

Regarding the lock pick, I wonder if the audio changes over to the AV input? That would suck considering all your regular audio would be disabled while using the gauges. You could play audio through that input however the loss in function (Sirius, radio...) not sure if it's worth it.


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[wasinger3000]

Glad to see you are still around

Looking forward to see what comes of this project.

[malfuncion]

Regarding the lock pick, I wonder if the audio changes over to the AV input? That would suck considering all your regular audio would be disabled while using the gauges. You could play audio through that input however the loss in function (Sirius, radio...) not sure if it's worth it.


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Pretty sure factory inputs would be overridden since you'd be selecting the A/V input and would def lose other sounds. It'd be just like selecting bluetooth audio or others. That's why you'd prob have to have you phone hooked to the bluetooth on the pi to play some spotify or something while you're using the input. There's also XM internet apps to stream that on there but again, extra cost. There's ways around it, but definitely will be filing this under the "cons" or maybe "neutral"? I think with the lockpick you may still get audio if you used the A/V on the lockpick since it overrides the backup cam signal. That may be useful? Do some fancy fingerwork on the steering wheel and pop up the gauges? Basically use the "front cam" function of the lock pick as the A/V source.

Glad to see you are still around

Looking forward to see what comes of this project.

Thanks! Yeah, work sucks at times and being a parent also plays a lot in to it. I am going to attempt do better on keeping the thread alive since it appears there's some interest here.

[nickstewartroc]

One thing I can say about hacking Sync, in my 2011 I found it uses a standard 44-pin IDE 2.5" Laptop hard drive. It's made by Hitachi and it is hardware locked. Looking into it some, I might be able to pop in another drive like it, have it lock the drive, then run software to bruteforce the password. From there, you should be able to unlock the original drive( as well as re-lock it) and snoop around. Since I am looking at replacing my headunit with an aftermarket one anyways, I don't care if I mess mine up. I will post any results I have though for anyone else wanted to follow along!