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Shell V-Power 93 and ethanol

Started by FoMoCoSHO, March 14, 2015, 08:06:24 PM

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IHeartGroceries

#15
Sadly, fraud is pretty rampant. You wouldn't believe the stories I hear. It's a difficult thing to manage, because there are hardly any Major Oil Owned and Operated retail stations anymore. So it's literally up to the integrity of the station owner. Plus, even some of the wholesalers, who're are also Branded Independent Retailers, commit fraud. It's most these BIRs who do these little under the table deals with unruly carrier drivers. Like, I'll split the earnings with you. Or, hey, drop that laat 500 gal of regular into my super tank and you can have all of the snacks you want in my store. Lol!
The brand owned companies do what they can to control that type of thing...but, you gotta think, when the station can dispense the evidence of fraud in a single day, it's a challenge!

As far as over blended, you really won't find that. Nobody releases it to the street. I mean, sure, it can happen. It does happen. But it's do to some one off mechanical error, if it leaves the rack over blended. Otherwise, blame the carriers or the consignees. Carriers comingle so much prouct in their transport tankers. From retain or because they're careless. It's also pretty frequent that they screw up entirely and deliver branded product to unbranded stations, or vise verse. And before anybody realizes what happened, all of that product has been dispensed to the end consumer. Lol! It's a circus.

That's why I always say find a reliable, branded filling station.with high throughput. Or fill at Quik Trip or grocers like Kroger, where they sign these contract deals which streanlines their product source and fuel carriers. This will reduce the liklihood of cross contamination and mishandling of product. They usually have dedicated transports and drivers for these deliveries.
2013 SHO PP

FoMoCoSHO


Shell's response...

"Thank you for contacting Shell Solutions Center.

In the US:

In order to comply with the Government's Federal Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), most Shell gasoline contain 10% ethanol by volume.  Due to these Federal obligations, nearly every gallon of gasoline sold in the US must contain 10% ethanol.  While all states sell gasoline with ethanol, there are limited areas where ethanol free gasoline is sold, mostly for RV (recreational vehicle), marine or outdoor use. 

To determine whether the gasoline you are purchasing contains ethanol, you should look for a label on the dispenser indicating ethanol content.  All gasoline stations should post a label on the dispenser advising if the gasoline contains ethanol and the maximum amount (depending on State laws, which may or may not make this labeling mandatory for 10% or less ethanol content).

In addition, the decision on whether to offer ethanol free gasoline is determined by each local Shell station as they are all independently owned and operated.  And because Shell stations are all independently owned and operated locally, we would not have a listing of which stations offer which grades of fuel."


Airbornemaikai

I'm not buying that e levels being excruciating high is a common place thing, like Iheartgroceries said, maybe if it's some little hill billy stop. There are thousands of people here that are running e with great success and these are also all the same people with the top speeds at the track here. Idk maybe some of you live out in BFE, but here it's pretty much one guy who owns every major fuel station and they are all labeled, in fact there is only 2 stations in the state with non ethanol gas, one is 87 octane and the other is 91. 93 just mysteriously showed up at shell here down town Boise and now one is just down the road from me (I live a couple cities away) so I'm finally set. After filling with 93 I still added 2 gallons of e and she felt smooth as butter. My last fill up I didn't add any extra e and she does not pull as hard but I don't need to worry about high e levels. So far so good, I am honestly shocked that FoMoCoSHO didn't realize he was running that much e, as he's the one who opened my eyes to how good this stuff is for the track. If a place isn't labeled I wouldn't get gas there as I've made phone calls to local stations and they had no idea what octane gas they offered


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
2014 Explorer Sport
LMS 91 Tune with 3 Bar Map
160º Evenflo T-stat, 0.30 Motorcraft plugs
LMS DP W/HI-Flow Cats, LMS Corsa Cat-Back
Airaid 401-260

wasinger3000

Quote from: IHeartGroceries on March 16, 2015, 05:07:50 PM
Sadly, fraud is pretty rampant. You wouldn't believe the stories I hear. It's a difficult thing to manage, because there are hardly any Major Oil Owned and Operated retail stations anymore. So it's literally up to the integrity of the station owner. Plus, even some of the wholesalers, who're are also Branded Independent Retailers, commit fraud. It's most these BIRs who do these little under the table deals with unruly carrier drivers. Like, I'll split the earnings with you. Or, hey, drop that laat 500 gal of regular into my super tank and you can have all of the snacks you want in my store. Lol!
The brand owned companies do what they can to control that type of thing...but, you gotta think, when the station can dispense the evidence of fraud in a single day, it's a challenge!

As far as over blended, you really won't find that. Nobody releases it to the street. I mean, sure, it can happen. It does happen. But it's do to some one off mechanical error, if it leaves the rack over blended. Otherwise, blame the carriers or the consignees. Carriers comingle so much prouct in their transport tankers. From retain or because they're careless. It's also pretty frequent that they screw up entirely and deliver branded product to unbranded stations, or vise verse. And before anybody realizes what happened, all of that product has been dispensed to the end consumer. Lol! It's a circus.

That's why I always say find a reliable, branded filling station.with high throughput. Or fill at Quik Trip or grocers like Kroger, where they sign these contract deals which streanlines their product source and fuel carriers. This will reduce the liklihood of cross contamination and mishandling of product. They usually have dedicated transports and drivers for these deliveries.
Do you think I should try to find a grocery store owned gas station? In hopes they would be more likely to follow the rules? The one who I do not trust is locally owned and only has 3 stores. They hire their own truck and driver so they control the whole process. It's a ConocoPhillips labeled station. Does ConocoPhillips do any franchise quality control?
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: Airbornemaikai on March 16, 2015, 06:10:51 PM
I'm not buying that e levels being excruciating high is a common place thing, like Iheartgroceries said, maybe if it's some little hill billy stop. There are thousands of people here that are running e with great success and these are also all the same people with the top speeds at the track here. Idk maybe some of you live out in BFE, but here it's pretty much one guy who owns every major fuel station and they are all labeled, in fact there is only 2 stations in the state with non ethanol gas, one is 87 octane and the other is 91. 93 just mysteriously showed up at shell here down town Boise and now one is just down the road from me (I live a couple cities away) so I'm finally set. After filling with 93 I still added 2 gallons of e and she felt smooth as butter. My last fill up I didn't add any extra e and she does not pull as hard but I don't need to worry about high e levels. So far so good, I am honestly shocked that FoMoCoSHO didn't realize he was running that much e, as he's the one who opened my eyes to how good this stuff is for the track. If a place isn't labeled I wouldn't get gas there as I've made phone calls to local stations and they had no idea what octane gas they offered


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Why are you shocked? Things change, politicians change rules without consulting their constituents, and for a long time here Shell was touted as pure gas. Ohio used to have pump requirements. I assumed with Shell's reputation they would put some labels on their pumps if things had changed but obviously not (Hell even speedway does!). Ignorance is bliss and nothing blew up....Yay Ecoboost (Bosch?) programming! Hell I was even warning people about adjusting if their base was oxygenated, lol I guess I should've heeded my own warning.

This is what I get for being out of the car scene for so long but the good thing is this explains those times where things got worse or better than expected FRP results when blending. If you've been watching recent posts, I've been moving to a less is more philosophy, at least with DI cars that is.

I will get a tester, see if my normal station is consistent and adjust from there. My goal all along was to find the sweet spot of high effective octane and fuel pressure...The 70% tanks were just my morbid curiosity to see how far before the car protested...it never did. It did not however like this winter at 30, err, make that 40%   ;)

As far as over blending what concerns me is human nature and the fact e is the cheap way to raise octane. Now with the EPA moving towards the 15% level that makes the situation worse(better?). For my purposes, I would love to have 15% V-power blend right out of the pump. One stop shopping for me and the way EPA guidelines are moving it will probably happen.

So what next? Establish a new baseline and do some real world testing of the DI injected ethanol theories and see what holds true in real world application.

Oh and for all you anti E folks, lookie what Shell is up to...cellulosic ethanol, no more using food for fuel and a noble goal that required food based E to advance the tech to this point.

http://www.shell.com/global/environment-society/environment/climate-change/biofuels-alternative-energies-transport/biofuels/advanced-biofuels.html




Airbornemaikai

I suppose if Shell had been touted as pure gas I can understand why you went with that. Fortunately for me as far as Shell gas goes here its all labeled very well and they seem to be consistent, the Phillips here used to be touted as "performance gas" but even then at least it was labelled properly. Glad you're around to keep us posted on your findings and your success mixing with the E. Chevron also is good here, but its not nation wide so I stopped using it, I like to use the same station as much as possible and in the event of travels at least the same company
2014 Explorer Sport
LMS 91 Tune with 3 Bar Map
160º Evenflo T-stat, 0.30 Motorcraft plugs
LMS DP W/HI-Flow Cats, LMS Corsa Cat-Back
Airaid 401-260

jtoddk98

I have 89 ethanol free gas in my area, what is better 93 with the 10% ethanol or 89 with none


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2011 Taurus SHO Performance Package. EBC Stage 4 Brakes. Blacked out chrome. #130 of 602 in Ingot Silver

Brucelinc

Quote from: jtoddk98 on March 17, 2015, 11:26:56 AM
I have 89 ethanol free gas in my area, what is better 93 with the 10% ethanol or 89 with none


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I would most definitely run the 93 with ethanol.   

IHeartGroceries

#23
I don't really think there's anything wrong with E10 in vehicles manufactured adter 2001 or whenever they began making provisions to fuel system materials, or really any vehicle which isn't using a fixed fuel delivery system, ie carburetor. So, I wouldn't skimp on the extra octane for the SHO.

There are probably some differences in the basestocks between the oxygenated and unoxygenated gasolines available in your area. Most notably, the 89 basestock is 89 PON, right out of the storage tank. Any fuel blended with ethanol is refined to a lower octane, and then relies on the octane benefits of ethanol to bump the AKI to meet the 93, 87, 89, etc PON seen at the pump.

Also, regarding the development of cellulosic biofuel, I believe that was always apart of some of the mandates found in the Renewable Fuel Standard. As the volumes of renewables were forced to grow every year by mandate, the RFS sought to reduce the burdon on the food supply, and sought to encourage the development of cellulosic ethanol. But the EPA keeps delaying deadlines and reducing volumes, becasue they are unfeasible. And the ethanol politics have cooled down in recent years and nobody is buying it anymore. And lawmakers are attempt to repeal and all of this...It's yet another circus.
2013 SHO PP

SHOw-Me State

IHeartGroceries,

I seem to recall reading in one of the car mags awhile back about ethanol mandates.  Basically, I thought the article mentioned that the point of the volume mandates was originally to force/drive the development and deployment of E85.  However, since E85 hasn't really taken off (I think many of us acknowledge E85 isn't available everywhere), in order to meet the mandates ethanol has been increasingly added to the gas.  Appears up to 15% is on the near horizon.

I'm not necessarily against it, but I do come from a motorcycle background and feel for them and other recreational vehicles and small motors that increased ethanol can cause problems with. 

If my first paragraph is true, I'd rather the government stick to their original plan and drive E85 versus 'fixing' by marginally increasing content in the blends.

Hopefully I didn't misunderstand the article and feel free to set me straight!

Kevin
2011 SHO non-PP, Ingot Silver, 2013 fender vents, all stock (for now).
Future: Tune, 3-bar, new plugs.  Catted DP and exhaust someday.