Tune degradation????

[SHOnUup]

I reflashed at the track after a few runs and netted worse runs.

My best was when I flashed before the hour drive there and trained it on the way.

Rich

[ZSHO]

If you go to your owners manuel and follow the battery and transmission relearn when battery is changed or disconnected,it will show that the engine must relearn its idle and fuel trim strategy for optimum performance,same goes for the transmission,it must relearn its adaptive strategy ,as a result of this the transmission will shift firmly which is normal,overtime the adaptive learning process will fully update the transmission ti its optimum shift feel,so essentially so many variables are to take into consideration pertaining to driving style which is stored on the ECM,when battery is removed or disconnected all of the data is erased and must later relearn it again.

So whenever battery is pulled or drained might as well ref lash tune anyway.

Also, so many are all over the place on this one. I did ref lash yesterday. Then using Torque, I got a better time, but near as good as it has been in the past. But, I don't trust Torque either. Seems to lag too much. Therefore, may not be very accurate. May gotta go to track again for real test

Yor are absolutly correct in both matters,time will tell especially at the track and keep us updated,also why does the 3-bar always have to be brought up by a certain member even if its not related to the topic,its really starting to P*** me off,stick to the topic,give us some factual and credible answers,if your so infatuated in a 3-bar,have an extra one which i'll give it to you for free.

[Airbornemaikai]

Yes I believe someone for some reason thinks were trying to say the vehicle relearns back to stock when tuned, which is not the case at all. No one ever said back to stock, its just relearning your driving patterns to adjust accordingly. I have indeed flashed many times changing between tunes such as 91, 93 and stock. Each time I do i disconnect the battery and let it sit for at least 30mins, and I can assure you the vehicle does indeed shift differently even if just flashing the same tune (after disconnecting the battery of course). There is no mistaking this.

[Txstrmhntr]

if the car is driven for a few weeks like a grandma aka in my case the wife taking it around town, and it hasnt had a good romping the shifts will get soft too soft imo. Either drive the car like you stole it for a few days before a track day or reflash the tune a day or two before track day. reflash is easy

[SHOdded]

Would be nice to have a "set & forget" point when you are happy with the way the car performs/behaves.  If you can have memory seats, why not a memory PCM?  Subject to the safeguards, of course.

[liteyouup]

Call people out by name, not " a certain member."  Don't sugar coat it!  LOL

[ZSHO]

Call people out by name, not " a certain member."  Don't sugar coat it!  LOL

Here at E.B.P.F things work out a little different here,we try to keep our discussions grounded and straight to the point,not outside the box,maybe you spent to much time over the explorer forum,here we have a little more respect for one another,keep it real.

[J-Will]

Questions like these make me wonder if people really understand what happens with a "tune" when you tune your car. If a tune is set up right, then there is nothing to relearn or revert to. The ECU doesn't store a previous version or a hard code within the ECU that it always will try to go back to.

When a tune is wrote and loaded to a device then flashed to the car the ECU has been completely reformatted and the ECU only knows what values have been inserted into all the various tables, and there are a lot. Even when the person that writes the tune leaves adaptive fuel control on, as long as it's set up correctly then it will adapt to what the tuner has defined in the tables and scalars.

The old tune is GONE when you flash your car, it is however stored in your flash device so you can revert to stock if needed. And for the guys with a 3 bar tune, if the car was in a constant state of trying to revert to stock then it wouldn't run well the closer it's gets to stock and eventually not at all. The values that are changed in a 3 bar tune won't allow the car to run if it was trying to get back to stock

Perhaps you misread the questions; it is not about relearning or reverting back to stock.  Some parameters within the ECU have a range of options, and the code is configured to adapt to the one that fits best in situations.  For example: it is possible that someone who sets their transmission shifts to be hard and fast, but babies their car to have that setting slowly change to a softer shift point figure within the parameters of the ECU.  Or a car knowing which type of gas you put in the tank, and adjusting the KR accordingly.  The point is, the options are not hard fast and static.

While I have not heard of this happening to a car, in theory it is possible. 

[ZSHO]

Questions like these make me wonder if people really understand what happens with a "tune" when you tune your car. If a tune is set up right, then there is nothing to relearn or revert to. The ECU doesn't store a previous version or a hard code within the ECU that it always will try to go back to.

When a tune is wrote and loaded to a device then flashed to the car the ECU has been completely reformatted and the ECU only knows what values have been inserted into all the various tables, and there are a lot. Even when the person that writes the tune leaves adaptive fuel control on, as long as it's set up correctly then it will adapt to what the tuner has defined in the tables and scalars.

The old tune is GONE when you flash your car, it is however stored in your flash device so you can revert to stock if needed. And for the guys with a 3 bar tune, if the car was in a constant state of trying to revert to stock then it wouldn't run well the closer it's gets to stock and eventually not at all. The values that are changed in a 3 bar tune won't allow the car to run if it was trying to get back to stock

Why dont we trying sticking with the topic and keep the discussion factual and grounded,so basically I dont know why you see the need to trump,mention constantly in almost all your posts the negatives of a 3-bar,i try hard to to keep my conversations friendly and factual.and i let people believe what they want to believe,no good will be done here by me proving your misinformed.

[AJP turbo]

I have a 3 bar. No worries. Most people's insight in tuning on this forum is horrible. I can tell you what's actually in the tables in the tune. Most people here don't know what an MTF is or have the software to open it. So you won't be able to prove me wrong on much in that department. The adaptive is limited to what is defined in the tables.

[ZSHO]

I guess some of us just like the simplicity if canned tunes as oppose to datalogging,and hopefully your PCM incorporates for all of the calibration constant tables,and not below the value read by the converter,so essentially if you have time on your hands and benefits you,best of luck,also did not see you had a 3-bar based on your sig or avatar.

[J-Will]

I have a 3 bar. No worries. Most people's insight in tuning on this forum is horrible. I can tell you what's actually in the tables in the tune. Most people here don't know what an MTF is or have the software to open it. So you won't be able to prove me wrong on much in that department. The adaptive is limited to what is defined in the tables.

I dont know what the malfunction is here, but I dont think you understand the original question.

[SHOnUup]

So it looks like we can agree that if you're going to the track to try and post the best time you can, that there is some tune degradation. It's not re-writing the tune or anything like that. It's just "smoothing" itself out learning the driving habits. Well, unless your doing 1/4 mile pulls everyday. Then you should be ok.

Rich

[AJP turbo]

I thought the 18-20 psi in my sig gave away my having a 3 bar sensor installed.

I get your points, but I get flamed up because I've seen quite a few threads mentioning the idea of a tune losing it's punch. If you are talking .15 second swings in a 1/4 that's not a lot. If your car is showing 9 second 0-60 runs with torque then you have a problem and it's not the tune. I've never used those apps so I can't speak to them.

I'll have to re read the original post but I thought the OP said something about having tranny problems and the car "not running at all" then was asking about degrading tune.

The way I see people here talk about tunes, to me it sounds like they think the flash process is like an upgrade or a type of mod that just modifies how the car runs and it sounds like they don't understand it's a complete re-write of the ROM.

Carry on sorry for the confusion

[SHOnUup]

.15 looks like a healthy # to me to be losing at the track. But that's me. Torque isn't spot on for sure. Spin the tires at all and the #'s get out of whack. But it's a decent baseline to monitor some stuff for sure.

Rich