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Author Topic:  Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus  (Read 8660 times)

Offline Fordman77

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Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« on: November 05, 2014, 09:15:41 AM »
OK so any water/meth guru's on here? I currently have the snow performance stage one kit and I will be upgrading the controller to an ecoboost controller. I will then get the steeda intake manifold spacer and tap 4 direct port injection nozzles at an angle facing the valves. All four will be tapped on the left hand side of the foil. I will be using 4 devil's own D01 nozzles coming off from a devils on 4 port splitter. Does this sound good? Any suggestions? I will be running a 50/50 boost juice mix.
My main goal is to keep cylinder temps down! So this would be the best position for this according to devils own


Here what I am thinking about getting let me know what you think
1-   4 port direct injection upgrade( 2501) $63.95
i.   http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/upgrade/205-direct-port-injection-upgrade.html

2-   4X Devils own D01 Nozzles (63ml/min) 1GPH $22.95 (each)
i.   http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/nozzles/180-outside-mount-nozzles-do1.html

3-   Steeda Intake manifold spacer (I will drill and tap for 1/8 NPT threads on the left side of the foil at an angle towards the intake valves) $144.95
i.   http://www.steedafusion.com/parts/steeda-fusion-intake-manifold-spacer-2.0l-13-14-555-3192

4-   Snow Performance ecoboost progressive controller ( awaiting pricing)

5-   Purple Nylon tubing (if anyone knows where to get water meth tubing in colors I would like purple if you can find it)

6-   AEM Water/Meth flow gauge
i.   http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/gauges/water-methanol-injection-gauges/water-methanol-flow-gauge

I should have the rest of the parts in my existing snow performance stage one kit. Let me know what you think!
-Fswerks (Randy) 93 oct. tune, -OCD Speed 3" downpipe,
-straightline performance 3" cbe, -levels performance 2.5" hot side charge pipe,- straightline performance 3" turbo inlet pipe, -steeda air box replacement -ATP FMIC upgrade
-Eibach sport springs -steeda sway bar-snow performance water meth kit

Offline wasinger3000

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 09:54:04 AM »
Did you check to see if 4 gph is enough?

I'd be slightly concerned about the mist being equal across all cylinders when using 4 nozzles since the splitter is going to have more pressure on the closest two outlets.

The more complicated you make this the higher the chance for failure is. Using two nozzles before the throttle body would simplify your setup and would make the flow of meth more uniform.

Also... 100% meth is where the powers at. I run 90/10 and have had great results.

I'd love to be proved wrong so don't take this post personal.
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

Offline MDesign Performance

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 10:03:51 AM »
^^ You think 2 nozzles over 1 is necessary? I'm thinking of adding a meth kit before the 3BAR just to improve reliability by having the meth clean the valves, preventive maintenance! (and the extra hp/tq is nice)
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Offline wasinger3000

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 10:19:58 AM »
^^ You think 2 nozzles over 1 is necessary? I'm thinking of adding a meth kit before the 3BAR just to improve reliability by having the meth clean the valves, preventive maintenance! (and the extra hp/tq is nice)
I think 1 is enough hah. Just don't like to crush dreams in one post.

I'm using 1 nozzle that is putting out 13.6 gallons at 300 psi. The reason to use 2 nozzles is to increase atomization. Since I am injecting before the throttle body I am not worried about the atomization that 2 nozzles would supply.  If you use a quality nozzle that is recessed from the air stream it will perform as expected.

Also increasing the pressure will improve atomization and increase flow rate. I would not use devils own as a base for all your information. Last time I talked to them they tried to tell me their nozzle flows the same at 50 psi as it does at 300 psi.. hah. ???
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

Offline crash712us

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 11:22:32 AM »
Sounds like a great set up a 1500hp motor. However you will likely hydro lock your motor spray that much meth. One nozzle is more than enough.


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2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

Offline Fordman77

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 06:11:56 PM »
The main reason that I want to do direct port water/meth injection is because of the cylinder temp issues that the 2.0l are experiencing with higher horsepower applications such as mine. They are causing the motor to run lean and exposing the pistons to higher temps. causing piston ringland failures in cylinder one and four.  I figured direct port would insure even distribution between all cylinders and to get the greatest benefits of cylinder temp cooling. (They have found that focus ST running both the big turbo and water meth do not experience the piston ringland issues and that it is saving engines)
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/content/20-where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/article_info.php?articles_id=40

I would be using 1GPH nozzles which in total will be 4 GPH. Devils own calculator recommended for my engine and 24psi that I run 4.37 GPH. Later down the line when I do get the built short block I will be using this as more of a supplement for the fuel system.
Here are some of the current setups on focus st I just want to avoid buying the intake manifolds as they have shown to heat soak very easy.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=breedt+intake+manifold+water+meth+injection&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=5D992F379906079FE1781FD0D510D3812171FE0D&selectedIndex=5
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=breedt+intake+manifold+water+meth+injection&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=5D992F379906079FE178E03A200D237C4F185D4A&selectedIndex=8
http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/breedt-product-design/61509d1407774416-intake-manifold-img_0315.jpg
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 06:14:47 PM by Fordman77 »
-Fswerks (Randy) 93 oct. tune, -OCD Speed 3" downpipe,
-straightline performance 3" cbe, -levels performance 2.5" hot side charge pipe,- straightline performance 3" turbo inlet pipe, -steeda air box replacement -ATP FMIC upgrade
-Eibach sport springs -steeda sway bar-snow performance water meth kit

Offline Sinister-CO

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2014, 07:01:31 PM »
Are these other guys running four nozzles? Sounds like overkill to me and more complicated than it needs to be. I've only seen dual nozzle setups on really high hp cars. I think you'd be fine with a single nozzle before the throttle body. If you do go forward with the multi nozzle setup, let us know how it works out for you.
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Offline thatsmrgimp2u

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2014, 08:23:12 PM »
If you don't have one in each individual intake runner, there is little benefit to more than one nozzle.

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Offline crash712us

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2014, 08:23:39 PM »
Sorry fordman that you had a SHO. I still believe 1 nozzle can do the job of 4, so it just a matter of preference and cost. As for ring land fractures, those are cause by detonation. While water/meth system will aid in controlling detonation, it will do nothing to  enrich the mixture. However straight meth will, but you never want to run lean in any circumstance.

2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

scap99

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 08:44:18 PM »
^^ You think 2 nozzles over 1 is necessary? I'm thinking of adding a meth kit before the 3BAR just to improve reliability by having the meth clean the valves, preventive maintenance! (and the extra hp/tq is nice)
I think 1 is enough hah. Just don't like to crush dreams in one post.

I'm using 1 nozzle that is putting out 13.6 gallons at 300 psi. The reason to use 2 nozzles is to increase atomization. Since I am injecting before the throttle body I am not worried about the atomization that 2 nozzles would supply.  If you use a quality nozzle that is recessed from the air stream it will perform as expected.

Also increasing the pressure will improve atomization and increase flow rate. I would not use devils own as a base for all your information. Last time I talked to them they tried to tell me their nozzle flows the same at 50 psi as it does at 300 psi.. hah. ???

Don't let that error keep you away from their nozzle.

Comparing my AEM nozzle to my DO nozzle, I'll take DO every day of the week.
The different in the quality of mist is a sight to behold.

Offline wasinger3000

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2014, 09:17:09 PM »
^^ You think 2 nozzles over 1 is necessary? I'm thinking of adding a meth kit before the 3BAR just to improve reliability by having the meth clean the valves, preventive maintenance! (and the extra hp/tq is nice)
I think 1 is enough hah. Just don't like to crush dreams in one post.

I'm using 1 nozzle that is putting out 13.6 gallons at 300 psi. The reason to use 2 nozzles is to increase atomization. Since I am injecting before the throttle body I am not worried about the atomization that 2 nozzles would supply.  If you use a quality nozzle that is recessed from the air stream it will perform as expected.

Also increasing the pressure will improve atomization and increase flow rate. I would not use devils own as a base for all your information. Last time I talked to them they tried to tell me their nozzle flows the same at 50 psi as it does at 300 psi.. hah. ???

Don't let that error keep you away from their nozzle.

Comparing my AEM nozzle to my DO nozzle, I'll take DO every day of the week.
The different in the quality of mist is a sight to behold.
If you like devils own then you should check out Alcohol injection on ebay. They have a 120mm recessed nozzle that I'm using. It's far superior to DO. I have both and have tried both.
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

scap99

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Re: Looking for help from you water/meth Gurus
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 09:20:50 PM »
^^ You think 2 nozzles over 1 is necessary? I'm thinking of adding a meth kit before the 3BAR just to improve reliability by having the meth clean the valves, preventive maintenance! (and the extra hp/tq is nice)
I think 1 is enough hah. Just don't like to crush dreams in one post.

I'm using 1 nozzle that is putting out 13.6 gallons at 300 psi. The reason to use 2 nozzles is to increase atomization. Since I am injecting before the throttle body I am not worried about the atomization that 2 nozzles would supply.  If you use a quality nozzle that is recessed from the air stream it will perform as expected.

Also increasing the pressure will improve atomization and increase flow rate. I would not use devils own as a base for all your information. Last time I talked to them they tried to tell me their nozzle flows the same at 50 psi as it does at 300 psi.. hah. ???

Don't let that error keep you away from their nozzle.

Comparing my AEM nozzle to my DO nozzle, I'll take DO every day of the week.
The different in the quality of mist is a sight to behold.
If you like devils own then you should check out Alcohol injection on ebay. They have a 120mm recessed nozzle that I'm using. It's far superior to DO. I have both and have tried both.

How many gph is 120 equal to?
Never mind, I'm running this nozzle...

14 GPH (882ml/min)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 10:23:13 PM by scap99 »

 


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