• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

Torque PIDs...Take 2

Started by ecoboostsho, June 07, 2014, 07:59:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Larrylu


Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 04, 2014, 05:14:01 PM
Yes the octane PID should be 100% ideally. I was at 75% for a bit but then switched gas stations and it actually went up to 100...
I could use a quick run down on the octane PID. I'm trying to envision the best way this could be used. It's learned octane right?
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: Larrylu on July 04, 2014, 05:22:55 PM

Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 04, 2014, 05:14:01 PM
Yes the octane PID should be 100% ideally. I was at 75% for a bit but then switched gas stations and it actually went up to 100...
I could use a quick run down on the octane PID. I'm trying to envision the best way this could be used. It's learned octane right?
Right off the top of my head, gas quality...



FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 04, 2014, 05:14:01 PM
Yes the octane PID should be 100% ideally. I was at 75% for a bit but then switched gas stations and it actually went up to 100...
Notice any difference in how the car ran?


ecoboostsho

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 04, 2014, 06:24:27 PM
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 04, 2014, 05:14:01 PM
Yes the octane PID should be 100% ideally. I was at 75% for a bit but then switched gas stations and it actually went up to 100...
Notice any difference in how the car ran?
Well I honestly thought it felt stronger but I have always been wary of seat of the pants testing...
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

wasinger3000

#230
Now all I need is a ethanol PID hah. Wish we had a sensor stock.


Are there any flex fuel taurus versions? If so would it be possible for our ecu to recognize a ethanol sensor?
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

ecoboostsho

Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 04, 2014, 07:13:17 PM
Now all I need is a ethanol PID hah. Wish we had a sensor stock.


Are there any flex fuel taurus versions? If so would it be possible for our ecu to recognize a ethanol sensor?
There is a flex fuel Taurus I believe. Ecu could read the sensor if it had an input available, however the programming would have to be altered. So not likely it would be easy...
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

FoMoCoSHO

Nobody uses sensors anymore, they use fuel inference. Aka deductive fueling logic.

FoMoCoSHO

Apparently there Is a pid for this. But you will need to scan for it immediately after fill up as that is when the computer looks at the fuel.

Larrylu

Not getting it.  What is "Learned Octane" and what does 75% or 100% of it mean? 
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

ecoboostsho

Quote from: Larrylu on July 05, 2014, 07:11:27 AM
Not getting it.  What is "Learned Octane" and what does 75% or 100% of it mean? 
So the best way I can explain it is that the car is designed to run on a wide variety of Octane from the factory.  It has to accommodate for Octane as low as 87 I believe.  It doesn't have an actual sensor to do this but "Learns" it from (going to speculate a little bit here) knock or maybe some other parameters.  If you put in 87 the car is going to knock more than when using 93....it sees the knock and probably pulls some timing, but I'm sure there is an algorithm that maybe adds it back in while it is learning to "test" it...if the knock is there under certain conditions then the ECU finally assumes you've put in lower octane gas and switches to a different timing table with lower numbers.  You lose power but the car is still happy.  It then sets the Learned Octane Ratio to a number that loosely corresponds to what it thinks the Octane of the gas is.  Note: If you car is tuned for 93 then use 93 etc....the tune isn't going to compensate appropriately for 87 Octane.  I believe anything over 91 or 93 octane should result in 100% while 87 may put you closer to 0%...
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Larrylu


Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 05, 2014, 08:18:23 AM
Quote from: Larrylu on July 05, 2014, 07:11:27 AM
Not getting it.  What is "Learned Octane" and what does 75% or 100% of it mean? 
So the best way I can explain it is that the car is designed to run on a wide variety of Octane from the factory.  It has to accommodate for Octane as low as 87 I believe.  It doesn't have an actual sensor to do this but "Learns" it from (going to speculate a little bit here) knock or maybe some other parameters.  If you put in 87 the car is going to knock more than when using 93....it sees the knock and probably pulls some timing, but I'm sure there is an algorithm that maybe adds it back in while it is learning to "test" it...if the knock is there under certain conditions then the ECU finally assumes you've put in lower octane gas and switches to a different timing table with lower numbers.  You lose power but the car is still happy.  It then sets the Learned Octane Ratio to a number that loosely corresponds to what it thinks the Octane of the gas is.  Note: If you car is tuned for 93 then use 93 etc....the tune isn't going to compensate appropriately for 87 Octane.  I believe anything over 91 or 93 octane should result in 100% while 87 may put you closer to 0%...

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. Now I've got to add one more gauge. That would be really great to have displayed!
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

Larrylu

First test showed my usual 93 Sunoco achieving a 100% on startup. It will be interesting now to log some miles and see what turns up!
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

ecoboostsho

Quote from: Larrylu on July 05, 2014, 09:52:38 AM
First test showed my usual 93 Sunoco achieving a 100% on startup. It will be interesting now to log some miles and see what turns up!
Excellent! If you ever want to see it in action you can pull your battery cable for a few minutes and watch it start over at 0...
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Larrylu

In theory if I got a tank of low octane, I could expect that I'd start to see some recalculations happening pretty quick.....right?
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro