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Torque PIDs...Take 2

Started by ecoboostsho, June 07, 2014, 07:59:06 PM

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ecoboostsho

Nice setup! What device are you running it on?
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

millinnium

#196
Quote from: ecoboostsho on June 26, 2014, 09:18:12 PM
Nice setup! What device are you running it on?

A Galaxy S4, mount it on the windscreen... does the job!

The other thing i will share with you guys is, if you have dashcommand on a Android Device with 4.4.2 and above, you guys can use the developer option, enable bluetooth HCI snoop , and get the PIDs from when DashCommand communicates with your ECU... freaking awesome.

After getting the snoop log file, get Wireshark to open the log file and read to your heart's content!

ecoboostsho

Good to know!  I don't have Dash Command so I have been downloading a free serial analyzer/sniffer on my laptop and just watching it right on the screen...then translating to Torque.
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

ecoboostsho

Cleaned up some of my work.  I have been working on a new upload file which I posted that contains some formula fixes.  Also if anyone was following along with my previous post on the AWD PIDS on a 2010-2012 the "Header" actually needs to be 761 NOT 726 as I had previously stated.  I updated everything so it should be accurate now...
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

ShoBoat

Sweet thanks Ecoboostsho!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ShoBoat

Quick question, would it be possible to do your heat soak gauge with IAT1 and CAC? I am finding some interesting results when comparing the 2 readings at a glance. At times IAT1 is higher than the CAC temps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

Larrylu

Sure why not. If you have two values and you are watching the increase/difference between the two readings, I thought it would be easier to have the gauge do the arithmetic. In my case I wanted to see the total heat gained by ambient air as it went through the process of being delivered to the intake manifold so I used the sensors at each extreme. I'm sure it would work just as well using the values of the two middle sensors.
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

ShoBoat

Just adding to your post above and more questions lol. I have also noticed on torque during the day the ambient temp is always higher than the dash reading. Sometimes by 10C. The dash reflects the current weather data without humidity. For example today it's 27C feels like 32C. The dash reads 27 and the ambient on torque is 34C The ambient is closer to the current weather data plus humidity? Is it possible that it's taking humidity into effect? Or could there be another explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ecoboostsho

Quote from: ShoBoat on June 27, 2014, 10:09:27 AM
Sweet thanks Ecoboostsho!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you downloaded it I suggest you do it one more time...I ended up typing a few additional things.  I need to find a better CSV editor than Excel.  It keeps converting my PIDs to scientific notation and breaking them...I fixed the Catalyst temp but it is exactly the same as Torque from what I can see.  The equation for "Desired Boost" is definitely wrong as well...still working on it.
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Larrylu

#204
I don't have a favorite theory yet. There are times where I see the two temps a good 10 degrees apart and others where they are within one or two degrees. My first excuse was two sensors in different locations. That's a weak theory though I think. The averaging theory for the dash display is certainly interesting and it might be the reason.....just don't know. I hope by observing eventually a solid theory will emerge. Never heard any mention of a humidity sensor.....on the car or in the tablet. The car and the tablet each have GPS sensors and inertia sensors I think? ? ?
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

ecoboostsho

#205
I've been messing with the "Desired Boost" PID and it has been driving me crazy, but I think I've finally figured it out for anyone that cares!  It was never matching the boost gauge in Torque and didn't seem linearly related at all so I couldn't figure out the equation.  Then I stumbled on a PID called "Throttle Inlet Pressure Sensor".  If you remember our cars have (at least) two pressure sensors (there is an additional one for barometric pressure as well someplace) - one sitting on top of the manifold (also combined with IAT2) and one right before the throttle plate.  I figured out the throttle plate PID (22033E) and watched that and sure enough that is what tracks to "Desired Boost".  It makes sense actually since there would be a pressure drop across the throttle plate depending on how far it was open (and max is only 80% anyway).  So bottom line is the MAP sensor on top of the manifold will probably never match "Desired Boost" - although it should get close at WOT. I'm also guessing manifold pressure will be lower since air is being sucked out of the intake manifold and in to the valves - that and the combined larger volume of the manifold.

Application: You could create a differential gauge as discussed previously to see if your turbos were keeping up with the requested boost - could be useful to discover boost leaks etc...

Desired Boost  (This won't read vacuum but does vary slightly with barometric pressure)
PID: 220466
Equation: ((256*A)+B)/128*.145-14.7
Deg: PSI

Throttle Inlet Pressure Sensor
PID: 22033E
Equation: ((256*A)+B)/128*.145-14.7
Deg: PSI

Intake Manifold pressure  (already in Torque)
PID: 22F40B
Equation: A*.145
Deg: PSI
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile

Larrylu

What's the difference between desired boost, and throttle inlet pressure?  Not quite seeing the tasks yet. Also is there a difference in readings between the built in boost (Torque) and the custom PID Intake Manifold Pressure?
2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

ShoBoat

Great work! For anyone using the TB map sensor, keep in mind that you will see some spikes in the reading. If the TB snaps shut at a high boost level there is a slight lag before the BOVs kick in. I have seen readings on mine as high as 30psi in FORScan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ShoBoat

Quote from: Larrylu on July 02, 2014, 09:06:02 AM
What's the difference between desired boost, and throttle inlet pressure?  Not quite seeing the tasks yet. Also is there a difference in readings between the built in boost (Torque) and the custom PID Intake Manifold Pressure?

Great question, desired boost is essentially the same as commanded boost. This is what the PCM is calling for. The throttle inlet pressure is the reading just before the TB and after the CAC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ecoboostsho

Quote from: ShoBoat on July 02, 2014, 09:11:32 AM
Quote from: Larrylu on July 02, 2014, 09:06:02 AM
What's the difference between desired boost, and throttle inlet pressure?  Not quite seeing the tasks yet. Also is there a difference in readings between the built in boost (Torque) and the custom PID Intake Manifold Pressure?

Great question, desired boost is essentially the same as commanded boost. This is what the PCM is calling for. The throttle inlet pressure is the reading just before the TB and after the CAC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep!

Larry - as for any difference between Torque and the MAP sensor I don't know just yet.  I will have to track it for a bit and see.  Actual boost should take in to account the barometric pressure as well (the sensor above probably doesn't).  I don't know if Torque does or not.  Either way it would only change the values slightly unless you live in Denver/mountains etc...

I updated the file on the first page and included a differential pressure gauge for anyone that wants to mess with it.  As long as I didn't typo anything it should be good to go.
2013 White SHO w/PP, Gearhead Tuned, 3 Bar, 160T, Plugs...Mess with the Bull and you'll get the Horn. :)
Previous 2011 Tuxedo Black SHO w/PP - 12.89 1/4 Mile