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What have you done to your Ecoboosted vehicle today?

Started by EcoPowerParts, January 14, 2013, 08:56:36 AM

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Gray Brick

2013 Ecoboost Ford Flex
AJP Tune (ATP+2) in progress , Livernois HPFP, 3 Bar MAP, UPR Catch Can, 100% Methanol w/ braided steel lines, 3" Downpipes -->2.5" X-pipe --> 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust, 2.5" air inlets to each turbo with cone filter, Custom water to air intercooler with chiller
275/40-20 Front 315/35-20 Rear Tires
---12.419ET/112.43MPH @ 5150 lbs in the 1/4---

lamrith

People on facebook SHO group.  A post was made about interest in bigger turbos, then a comment was made turbo's are last concern since PTU cannot handle power the stock components can put out when dialed up.  a couple people jumped in saying prove it, and one which could be part of a big tuning Co said it is a non issue.  problems are all improper maintenance, not power related.

for those with FB:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/2254469276/permalink/10156434109609277/?comment_id=10156434651799277&notif_id=1534463671824293&notif_t=group_comment_reply
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: lamrith on August 16, 2018, 08:34:29 PM
People on facebook SHO group.  A post was made about interest in bigger turbos, then a comment was made turbo's are last concern since PTU cannot handle power the stock components can put out when dialed up.  a couple people jumped in saying prove it, and one which could be part of a big tuning Co said it is a non issue.  problems are all improper maintenance, not power related.

for those with FB:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/2254469276/permalink/10156434109609277/?comment_id=10156434651799277&notif_id=1534463671824293&notif_t=group_comment_reply
I haven't seen BPD's blow apart...


SHOdded

Improper maintenance?  of ... the trans, ptu, engine ...?

So much misinformation in that thread I don't even have time to begin addressing it.  Who exactly is "Jessica Livernois" and why is she "the authority", obviously not a Livernois insider, but probably a Livernois customer.  How many PTUs has she seen from each generation?  Simply pointing to a shop manual doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  But experience dictates that the PTU is failure prone.  In fact, later generations of the PTU seem MORE failure prone than earlier and this is not only a SHO problem but on the Edge as well.  At least they started putting in drain plugs in the Edge starting in the 2015 MY :D

It does fine under all highway cruise type conditions where exhaust temps are low to begin with, there is good airflow, etc etc.  But regularly subjecting it to slowngo or hard acceleration will greatly decrease lifespan unless maintained fanatically like bpd does.  Fluids gotta hold up to high heat, and it's gotta be refreshed on a regular basis.  No way around it.  "Lifetime" CAN be true, but under very strict conditions.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

lamrith

Quote from: SHOdded on August 17, 2018, 05:21:04 AM
Improper maintenance?  of ... the trans, ptu, engine ...?

So much misinformation in that thread I don't even have time to begin addressing it.  Who exactly is "Jessica Livernois" and why is she "the authority", obviously not a Livernois insider, but probably a Livernois customer.  How many PTUs has she seen from each generation?  Simply pointing to a shop manual doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  But experience dictates that the PTU is failure prone.  In fact, later generations of the PTU seem MORE failure prone than earlier and this is not only a SHO problem but on the Edge as well.  At least they started putting in drain plugs in the Edge starting in the 2015 MY :D

It does fine under all highway cruise type conditions where exhaust temps are low to begin with, there is good airflow, etc etc.  But regularly subjecting it to slowngo or hard acceleration will greatly decrease lifespan unless maintained fanatically like bpd does.  Fluids gotta hold up to high heat, and it's gotta be refreshed on a regular basis.  No way around it.  "Lifetime" CAN be true, but under very strict conditions.
Thanks.  I knew someone else would get a kick out of it.  I do not have the technical expertise, or time to go digging up "cold hard facts" to counter them and show that the unit do pop under heavy loads, regardless of maintenance.  FB honestly has become more and more of a trash heap the last year, you would think with people having real names and family/friends seeing their comment they would be less a55holes, but I am finding the exact opposite these days.

But enough about that!!  Today I once again enjoyed driving my SHO to work, and re-affirmed that I much prefer the stock PP suspension to the lowered H&R setup.  I pulled the H&R's out Sunday and put the stock springs back in.  I will tell you, I have gotten pretty good at it now as I had to do the drivers front 2x because I did not get the top nut on the strut tight enough so the hat was a hair off the strut.  "rattle rattle rattle" pulling out of driveway. DOH!
I know many people say the H&R is not much/any harder riding than PP, but mine sure is/was.  I could feel it either hitting coil bind or hitting suspension bumpstops all the time.  It was not slammed honda ride by any means, but was not comfortable with our roads here in WA and would bottom over the plethora of speed bumps I deal with daily.

So back up in the air, and the good news is to compensate baby gets new shoes as I ordered a set of the 275/40-20 G-max AS-05 posted the other day.
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

SHOdded

Custom axles?  sure.  Custom hubs?  no problem.  Custom wheels? but of course!  Custom ... tires???  Uh ... umm ... errrr ... not so much.  Filling that wheel gap can be a real challenge without lowering.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

lamrith

Quote from: SHOdded on August 17, 2018, 12:38:01 PM
Custom axles?  sure.  Custom hubs?  no problem.  Custom wheels? but of course!  Custom ... tires???  Uh ... umm ... errrr ... not so much.  Filling that wheel gap can be a real challenge without lowering.
Yeah I am just going to embrace and live with the wheel gap.  This is my year round DD so comfort and the ability to drive anywhere comfortably with no thought or concern on road conditions or vehicle clearance trumps everything else.

Helps also that I will have free reign to mod out my mustang after the 1st of the year, so it can be the maxed out, fire breathing monster only taken out on nice days and dragging it's belly in the grass.
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

SHOdded

2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

lamrith

Quote from: SHOdded on August 17, 2018, 02:12:41 PM
Super Snake!
I am hoping.  The dream/plan is:
Tubular front Kmember + front suspen
undecided rear suspen
Air-ride all around
wheels and tires
347 or more likely 408 stroker, AFR Renegade 180cc heads, modest cam, aftermarket EFI. (looking 400#/ft+ from idle thru 6kRPM)
Trans..?  T5 till pops then a TKO or T56?
'13 Sho PP, SCT x4, AJP 92-Octane rev6 (14psi&20spark) NGK 6510, 3Bar, K&N CAI, PPE Catted DP, Dynomax Axleback, 20*9.5 Voxx Lago w/ 275/40-20 GMAX AS-05.

Twintrbskies

Quote from: lamrith on August 16, 2018, 08:34:29 PM
People on facebook SHO group.  A post was made about interest in bigger turbos, then a comment was made turbo's are last concern since PTU cannot handle power the stock components can put out when dialed up.  a couple people jumped in saying prove it, and one which could be part of a big tuning Co said it is a non issue.  problems are all improper maintenance, not power related.

for those with FB:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/2254469276/permalink/10156434109609277/?comment_id=10156434651799277&notif_id=1534463671824293&notif_t=group_comment_reply

Lamrith I also saw that post as it was happening and that comment caught my eye. Was that you that said 'Show me where they have shattered under power?" Anyway I was thinking the same. As SHOdded mentioned they have been prone to failure but they have failed on stock SHO's as well. Makes me think. We all know at some power level there will be a failure but we need someone to just go for it. Anyone want to start a "Go Fund me" and I'll go for broke! jk

SHOdded, Jessica (dont know here at all but this what she posted prior) says she is an ASE Master technician for Ford and thats where her insight comes from. She mentioned not being a Livernois customer but lives near and knows the guys.

Sit back and ponder about it, really, every site has 3-4 people that are the "authority" that everyone listens to. I would just say the ones here are entertaining though. LOL
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2010 SHO non-PP, pearl white, Alky Controls Methanol kit-100% meth, tuned with Ortiz Performance, XDI-35, DW300C LPFP, E85, 3-Bar, K&N Drop-In, 160 T-stat, JLT Catch can, Stainless works Catless downpipes, Rear muffler delete with Borla Tips. (not currently using the methanol)

SHOdded

What does that mean, ASE tech for Ford - she works for a Ford dealership?  Could very well be knowledge from Ford training sessions or actual handson experience in the field.  Hard to say.

True enough, no one here is a full-on authority, everything we have here is anecdotal.  All in what/whom you choose to believe, I guess :) 
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Twintrbskies

Yeah I dont know. I just remember reading that from her before. She probably is just going from experience considering her day job.  eh

I would definitely be interested in hearing someone who actually blew it up due to being overpowered. I have also contacted shops around here asking and their response was "If we can get a hold of one before it goes that has pushed the power further, we can see where the fail points are" but I wasn't willing to give them my car before something broke.
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2010 SHO non-PP, pearl white, Alky Controls Methanol kit-100% meth, tuned with Ortiz Performance, XDI-35, DW300C LPFP, E85, 3-Bar, K&N Drop-In, 160 T-stat, JLT Catch can, Stainless works Catless downpipes, Rear muffler delete with Borla Tips. (not currently using the methanol)

SHOdded

She does seem to have street creds from what little I have read, so that's good!
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

StealBlueSho

BPD1151 has two tunes... one that dynod over 600hp and one that dynod a bit over 500hp. To date he has never run the 600hp tune because Dan Millen the owner of LMS warned him that the it would most likely end up with either the transmission or the PTU letting loose.... (Sorry mike.. just repeating what you have publicly said many times)

That being said, he has had that car go down the track quite a bit with the lesser of the two tunes without issue. He also follows an extremely aggressive maintenance cycle.

Mike Bambic went through at least one transmission once he went over 500 on his flex...

Matt Robinson when tuning my 2010 suspected I was close to his numbers that he is putting down with his E30 tune but didn't want to push it any further for fear of drivetrain damage...

I have personally consulted LMS and a local high performance transmission shop to see what needed to be done to strengthen the setup... both told me it would require a massive effort that would be more cost than it's worth... I could go pick up a Chevy SS and run 10's for cost of getting the RD done for the SHO... and that wasn't just my opinion... that was the opinion of both shops I talked too...


Actually make that three shops... cause I called supersix to inquire about sending a motor to get stroked out and he told me on the SHO it's a waste of money because the drive train can't handle it... I asked for them if I sent a transmission/PTu with it the motor would they be willing to work it... they said no. They did recommend finding a performance shop in the EU as they have more experience with haldex systems than US shops... I never chased it down though after that.

You probably don't see the failures due to power of either the PTU or the transmission cause there are not enough people with the money to get these things upwards of 600hp let alone willing to essentially blow up the trans/PTu to see what breaks to figure out how to make it better...

And tuners seems to not want to push it that far...

Return on investment is just not there...


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StealBlueSho

Here is another point people tend to forget, each platform for the most part hits a wall somewhere....

For the SHO it is relatively cheap to get 450/450 awhp/awtq...

Tune, DPs, 3BAR, Tstat, and Meth will get you there... grand total of around $2100 depending on who you go with... but that about it...

After that's it's turbos for $2500 (which is still inexpensive)... which most places still won't tune much past 450/450... but is easier on the motor...

You can get a motor built sure... get that extra 75hp to get above 500 but your still limited on the drivetrain which has no solution yet... and it hasn't even been tested to figure out what goes first...

We do know the TC at those levels have a hard time locking so that needs to be upgraded which has been done but to a loss of ET from what I have read... there is a sonax zip kit with mixed results.....

But that's about it...

In short... these cars are stable running mid to low 12's... but after that it's touch and go... but it's easy to get these cars there... but the money comes after... which no shop to date from my experience wants to touch....


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